Movies: Marvel Cinematic Universe Discussion - Part 3

[Pilky01]

Pretty great twitter thread there.

This seems almost too monumentally stupid to actually happen.

 

[beowulf]

Oppps wrong thread lol

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

 

[DCDM]

Remember when we thought this was the dumbest Spidey news we'd read all day

I do too

 

[Pilky01]

Remember when we thought this was the dumbest Spidey news we'd read all day

I do too

It’s impressively absurd that both these stories come out today.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Everyone out here slamming Sony as if they didn't just have wild success with Spider-Verse (critical and financial) and Venom (financial, at least). The Raimi trilogy was a big hit. The two Marc Webb movies were misfires but Sony has had way more success with the property than they're being credited for. Not to mention they're part of the two MCU movies as well so they deserve a little credit there too.

Can't blame them for telling Disney to walk when Disney wants half the pot. Screw that. Selling film rights to Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four is what kept Marvel alive back before they were doing movies of their own. Sony has the leverage here.

(I suspect they will come to some agreement).

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Everyone out here slamming Sony as if they didn't just have wild success with Spider-Verse (critical and financial) and Venom (financial, at least). The Raimi trilogy was a big hit. The two Marc Webb movies were misfires but Sony has had way more success with the property than they're being credited for. Not to mention they're part of the two MCU movies as well so they deserve a little credit there too.

Can't blame them for telling Disney to walk when Disney wants half the pot. Screw that. Selling film rights to Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four is what kept Marvel alive back before they were doing movies of their own. Sony has the leverage here.

(I suspect they will come to some agreement).

I don’t really think Sony has the leverage. Disney & the MCU is just fine without Spider-Man. Not saying Disney has all the leverage either.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Hopefully

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I don’t really think Sony has the leverage. Disney & the MCU is just fine without Spider-Man. Not saying Disney has all the leverage either.

I tend to agree. I think Sony knows they should (and will) keep their character in the MCU. A Sony movie officially breaking away from the MCU could be sinked by angry fans, I'm pretty sure they don't want to try that - especially now that Spidey's the central figure of the universe, with Iron Man passing the torch.

False "alarm". They'll be back at the table with their tail between their legs.

 

[John Price]

What a gut punch for Mississauga’s own.

didn't know simu was a good ol' missuagagaga boy thumbs up

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Spiderman should just be public domain, already.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I don’t really think Sony has the leverage. Disney & the MCU is just fine without Spider-Man. Not saying Disney has all the leverage either.

Counterpoint: The Tom Holland Spider-Man is the most popular MCU character going forward. They made him a big part of the story and they're potentially going to lose him. Sure they have other characters and they will survive but it's clear they put a lot into the character to this point.

Sony has the rights, Holland and Jon Watts. So though it might not be MCU official, I suspect after two successful movies they can do a reasonably good job continuing the tone and vibe.

And again, the non-MCU Spider-Verse is beloved to the point of being overrated. Sony can do Spider-Man without Marvel.

MCU can exist without Spider-Man but it will be losing one of it's most popular and appealing players.

 

[syz]

One of the finest things in life is seeing Disney lose something at the hands of copyright and I hope Sony sticks to it, tbh.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Money will talk in the end. I'm sure Disney isn't dumb enough to even take a small (and i say small because the MCU has been money on all fronts) risk with damaging their big cash cow, especially with the beating Star Wars has taken in the eyes of people.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Money will talk in the end. I'm sure Disney isn't dumb enough to even take a small (and i say small because the MCU has been money on all fronts) risk with damaging their big cash cow, especially with the beating Star Wars has taken in the eyes of people.

To be fair, pretty much everything Disney is putting out right now is a cash cow.

 

[HanSolo]

What a mess all the same. Regardless of who has leverage.

 

[ItsFineImFine]

Easy come easy go, I'm sure they'll get it back eventually. Probably end up with bigger profits too via anticipation.

 

[Pilky01]

"I don’t think Tony would’ve done what he did if he didn’t know that you were going to be here after he was gone."

• ⁠Happy Hogan in Far From Home


Oooof

 

[Suxnet]

Spiderman has been a really minor character in the MCU and he's basically in that cliche role as the kid learning what it means to be a hero. It's a total joke to treat your flagship hero like that so I can't say I'm sad to see Disney lose him.

 

[The Beyonder]

This is pretty much a lose-lose-lose situation for Sony, Disney and the fans. I honestly think going from the 5% share for Disney to 50% share in profits seems ridiculous. I don't know if that's true, but it's pretty ridiculous of Disney to ask for that much of a hike. Why would they make that deal now? Sony agreed to the original 5% share while being nearly bankrupt. Sony is in the position of strength but everyone losses if they don't renew the deal.

 

[discostu]

This is pretty much a lose-lose-lose situation for Sony, Disney and the fans. I honestly think going from the 5% share for Disney to 50% share in profits seems ridiculous. I don't know if that's true, but it's pretty ridiculous of Disney to ask for that much of a hike. Why would they make that deal now? Sony agreed to the original 5% share while being nearly bankrupt. Sony is in the position of strength but everyone losses if they don't renew the deal.

My understanding of the current deal is that Disney gets 5% of first dollar gross, meaning their cut is directly off the total ticket sales, not the profit (ie after expenses are deducted).

Sony has profited more directly from these films (see deadline.com estimates here). But, you can argue that the introduction of Spiderman pushed the MCU into a higher tier. That final Spiderman scene in Endgame for example was potentially the biggest emotional punch from the entirety of the films, and probably added significantly to Infinity Wars total.

That said, Marvel is making a fortune on every film they put out. A 5% cut is nice with zero risk and zero capital investment, but, I think they also likely view every Spiderman film as a point on their calendar that they could replace with ones of their fully owned franchises and turn a bigger profit.

I can see both sides on this. The one thing that surprises me though is that there hasn't been a solution involving streaming rights. In the great streaming wars that is just getting started, I'd think Disney would gladly keep a smaller share if they could throw all Spiderman film rights controlled by Sony, and have them appear on Dosney+.

 

[beowulf]

My understanding of the current deal is that Disney gets 5% of first dollar gross, meaning their cut is directly off the total ticket sales, not the profit (ie after expenses are deducted).

Sony has profited more directly from these films (see deadline.com estimates here). But, you can argue that the introduction of Spiderman pushed the MCU into a higher tier. That final Spiderman scene in Endgame for example was potentially the biggest emotional punch from the entirety of the films, and probably added significantly to Infinity Wars total.

That said, Marvel is making a fortune on every film they put out. A 5% cut is nice with zero risk and zero capital investment, but, I think they also likely view every Spiderman film as a point on their calendar that they could replace with ones of their fully owned franchises and turn a bigger profit.

I can see both sides on this. The one thing that surprises me though is that there hasn't been a solution involving streaming rights. In the great streaming wars that is just getting started, I'd think Disney would gladly keep a smaller share if they could throw all Spiderman film rights controlled by Sony, and have them appear on Dosney+.

Another thing Disney does get is all $$ from Spider-Man related merchandise that Sony does not get. Though I would think any profit from merch sales is small compared to the box office money.

 

[discostu]

Another thing Disney does get is all $$ from Spider-Man related merchandise that Sony does not get. Though I would think any profit from merch sales is small compared to the box office money.

I think Disney gets that money regardless though, whether there's a co-finance deal or not. A lot of that merchandise sales are very independent of the films though. Spiderman is a huge deal to my 4 year old. He's getting a Spiderman backpack when he starts school in a couple of weeks, and he wore us down into buying him a Spiderman lego set yesterday. He's never seen a proper movie. Closest he's watched is a Lego Avengers film on Netflix.

 

[Elvis P]

I'm glad that Spidey is leaving. The quality of the MCU has gone down since GotG 2 and Endgame. Although Thor and Shang-Chi will be good, DC is the future for quality hero films.

 

[discostu]

I'm glad that Spidey is leaving. The quality of the MCU has gone down since GotG 2 and Endgame. Although Thor and Shang-Chi will be good, DC is the future for quality hero films.

?

That was four months ago, with only one film released. That's a pretty small hill.