Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Training camp looms

[Menzinger]

There's not a single person posting in here saying that.

It's downright embarrassing that an $11M/year deal was even tabled to Marner in the first place, but that's the hole Dubas dug for himself when he gave Matthews the contract he did.

A lot of posters here realized that Matthews would be the direct comparable for Marner's agent to use but unfortunately people like you who said Marner should get no more than $9.5M were dead wrong.

Matthews isn't a comparable to Marner. Folks can try and claim he is u til they're blue in the face but it doesnt make it any more true. Marner has more assists amd has more TOI. That's it. Matthew's is younger, the better goal scorer, 1st overall, has never played with a linemate of JTs caliber, and plays the vastly more important position. Fo

If that 7x11 deal was signed Dubas would deserve a fair amount of flack. But it hasn't been signed. Being critical.of Dubas in this negotiation isnt ogical as.clearly one sides demands are being disgustingly unreasonable.

Are you actually suggesting the Leafs havent been fair to Marner?

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Did you include Aho as a comparable to Marner months ago?

He signed 8.5x5

He scored more goals with worse linemates.

This is what people forget. The market was already set. Key media figures being on vacation and not talking about it made it fly under the radar. The guys who foster relationships with player parents who are in the media know this isn't the hot topic, because it doesn't get clicks and doesn't help media accessibility with the team.

Aho was the high water mark. But that doesn't create drama, or clicks.

 

[Legion34]

If you need it explained to you there is no use. Dubas is a pos period. He opened his yap when he announced the Mathews signing and it has continued since. Him and Burke are the same never seen a mic that they did not like.

Huh????
In what way?

Ferris was the one who went off.

What did dubas do?

 

[yubbers]

Well, all things considered, Nylander at sub $7 million is a pure steal, knowing he'll likely rebound and stabilize as a 70 point player.

Matthews and Nylander were pure business. Marner is bad faith negotiating.

No. He's a skilled winger that as you saw.... Is pedestrian away from AM. May I remind you Connor Brown scored 20 on AMs wing.

He stepped into the season messing with a team rolling along... Can't even show up in shape ffs and then shits the bed.

Should tell you something about your position when you have to predict the future to defend it Willy is a 5 million dollar player

 

[Legion34]

This is what people forget. The market was already set. Key media figures being on vacation and not talking about it made it fly under the radar. The guys who foster relationships with player parents who are in the media know this isn't the hot topic, because it doesn't get clicks and doesn't help media accessibility with the team.

Aho was the high water mark. But that doesn't create drama, or clicks.

Then why haven’t the rest signed?

 

[93LEAFS]

Do you have any sort of source on this?

It's gone around. I heard it from a reliable source, and I've had multiple things around here before the news cycle (Hunter quitting if Dubas was hired, Merkley being a nut-job, etc). Believe it if you want. Its not something that is going to be publically reported. But, it added to the frustration with Shanny's comment last year about taking discounts.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yep he’s one of the 4

So how close should they all be in your opinion?

Aho was 8.5x5.

In your opinion, what should Marner, Point, and Rantanen be at 5 years?

 

[Kiwi]

You wait them out to a point.

He wants the Matthews deal, which we never should have given out in the first place. But, people will blindly defend that because it already happened. Nothing has changed. Nothing will happen until a serious deadline in place which is the start of the season. But, people are letting the media work them into a frenzy. Almost no other elite RFA's are signed.

Apparent headcase because he's driving a hard bargain in negotiation. The guy is loved by his teammates. I guess Messier, Sakic, and Fedorov were also all headcases.

Matthews deal sucks and I've stated that on multiple occasions

Two wrongs don't make right and I'm not going to allow that contract to alter reality with Marner, this is horrendous and anybody trying to defend him turning down a wild overpayment is beyond help

I'm all for hard bargaining, that's why I want to sit him or sign him to a bridge and trade him a year before his next contract is up

I've never called Marner a headcase but I'm not blind to how he's behaving and I'm no fan of rewarding bad behaviour so if he's more trouble than he's worth i want him gone

We're not the Toronto Maple Marner's

 

[Stephen]

No. He's a skilled winger that as you saw.... Is pedestrian away from AM. May I remind you Connor Brown scored 20 on AMs wing.

He stepped into the season messing with a team rolling along... Can't even show up in shape ffs and then ****s the bed.

Should tell you something about your position when you have to predict the future to defend it Willy is a 5 million dollar player

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

$5 million in 2018 buys you Tyler Bozak and Yanni Gourde. Get real.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

We all knew Mitch and his Dad would be a headache.

Dubas did this to himself. He set the stage with Willy for how every agent would deal with him moving forward. He didn't have the balls to sit Willy and trade him. That's why this is extra out of hand.

Negotiations arent about taking a needlessly hard stance and stay dug in no matter what. Dubas was willing to let Nylander sit until he came in with a palatable offer that worked for Dubas. It would've been stupid to turn him down for no reason

 

[yubbers]

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

$5 million in 2018 buys you Tyler Bozak and Yanni Gourde. Get real.

Much rather have Bozie in my dressing room

Much rather Kadri

 

[Notsince67]

Not sure if you've heard but apparently the answer to all this team's problems is to hire a rookie coach too..

Lol

 

[Bomber0104]

Matthews isn't a comparable to Marner. Folks can try and claim he is u til they're blue in the face but it doesnt make it any more true. Marner has more assists amd has more TOI. That's it. Matthew's is younger, the better goal scorer, 1st overall, has never played with a linemate of JTs caliber, and plays the vastly more important position. Fo

If that 7x11 deal was signed Dubas would deserve a fair amount of flack. But it hasn't been signed. Being critical.of Dubas in this negotiation isnt ogical as.clearly one sides demands are being disgustingly unreasonable.

Are you actually suggesting the Leafs havent been fair to Marner?

Sure but wouldn't it have been "fair" of Matthews to give the Leafs more term?

Apparently this one-way idea of fairness you harbor only applies to Marner.

They gave Matthews a blank cheque and now Marner (who's outscored him two of three seasons) wants close to the same.

Seeing as how Marner's already turned down $11M over 7 years, he's already well on his way to getting close to the Matthews deal...

Dubas has only himself to blame.

 

[ULF_55]

You have to think Marner doesn't want to be a leaf anymore.

marner wants to be the Leafs.

Thankfully, they have a very good team without him, and it will be improved with him or with assets from trading him.

 

[Menzinger]

But does it mean that the Leafs are trying to lock Marner in at that ridiculous dollar amount, or does it signal to the world that they tried their best and the next steps are fair game?

Imo smells of both.

The know the cap complications make resigning him.way more difficult once we hit October. This is the last hardball salvo from management to knock some sense into the kid. If it doesn't work, they're well positioned to win the PR battle.if they enter unknown territory and consider doing something like a trade.

Its darkly comical.that seemingly the most difficult negation of.this rebuild was the beloved hometown kid. Particularly for Marner, a kid who seems predestined to end up one of.the most treasured Leafs in franchise history, to become a guy like Clark become potentially a hair away from being a forgotten afterthought playing in a low media market in the midwest or sunbelt.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Then why haven’t the rest signed?

Because they're waiting for Marner.

There are VERY few people like you who think Matthews contract was fair value (yes yes yes... we all know the stats you dug REAL deep to find to try and rationalize it. Almost everybody still disagrees with you though).

So due to that contract that the vast majority view as a humiliating overpayment, Dubas has a poor reputation. The other players/agents are waiting for overpayment Mcgee to do it again with Marner and throw the market even further on it's head.

This is pretty much genearlly accepted by almost everybody at this point. The other rfa's are waiting for the inevitable Marner overpayment. And did you see the rumors dished out today, supported even by people like Mackenzie? It seems the other rfa's/agents were RIGHT to wait for Marner.

 

[yubbers]

Negotiations arent about taking a needlessly hard stance and stay dug in no matter what. Dubas was willing to let Nylander sit until he came in with a palatable offer that worked for Dubas. It would've been stupid to turn him down for no reason

Not really. Ironically his trade value would be higher had you sat him. He's a lazy rich kid. Lacks drive. He needs a 12 million dollar Superstar to make him worth his contract IMHO. He's a passenger

 

[Sypher04]

Dubas leaked his expected price and contract deals to Mirtle post-Tavares, all of them have blown up outside of his estimate, and it pissed off all the agents involved. There were no leaks with Matthews because there wasn't a negotiation. He gave them a couple of options at crazy prices and they took one.

You state these things like they are facts when in reality they just arent. You have no idea. These are just what you've perceived to be the truth.

The idea there was no negotiation with Matthews is completely ridiculous tbh.

The Leafs aren't leaking anything through Mirtle, just as Paul, Mitch and Ferris aren't doing so through Dreger

 

[93LEAFS]

Imo smells of both.

The know the cap complications make resigning him.way more difficult once we hit October. This is the last hardball salvo from management to knock some sense into the kid. If it doesn't work, they're well positioned to win the PR battle.if they enter unknown territory and consider doing something like a trade.

Its darkly comical.that seemingly the most difficult negation of.this rebuild was the beloved hometown kid. Particularly for Marner, a kid who seems predestined to end up one of.the most treasured Leafs in franchise history, to become a guy like Clark become potentially a hair away from being a forgotten afterthought playing in a low media market in the midwest or sunbelt.

Leafs will always win the PR battle. It doesn't even take positioning. Now, some management may be protecting themselves from the fallout.

 

[Kiwi]

If you need it explained to you there is no use. Dubas is a pos period. He opened his yap when he announced the Mathews signing and it has continued since. Him and Burke are the same never seen a mic that they did not like.

I'm all for both sides keeping their mouths shut but if Dreger is basically on the Marner payroll at this point why wouldn't the team use exactly the same tactics?

If you set the standard don't complain when the same tactics are used against you, perhaps Marner's team shouldn't have started this because the team really jammed this down his throat

 

[Leaf Fans]

Then why haven’t the rest signed?

They are all waiting for Dubas to sign Marner and then they will all sign for less because there whole negotiation is based on Marner. The other GMs and players are too stupid to work out contracts on their own.

 

[Bomber0104]

Because they're waiting for Marner.

There are VERY few people like you who think Matthews contract was fair value (yes yes yes... we all know the stats you dug REAL deep to find to try and rationalize it. Almost everybody still disagrees with you though).

So due to that contract that the vast majority view as a humiliating overpayment, Dubas has a poor reputation. The other players/agents are waiting for overpayment Mcgee to do it again with Marner and throw the market even further on it's head.

This is pretty much genearlly accepted by almost everybody at this point. The other rfa's are waiting for the inevitable Marner overpayment. And did you see the rumors dished out today, supported even by people like Mackenzie? It seems the other rfa's/agents were RIGHT to wait for Marner.

Pierre LeBrun reports that NHL GM's are upset with Dubas for setting a precedent with that five year deal:

“80% of are stuck on term… If you want to talk about why teams are mad at Toronto, they hate the five-year precedent. They either want to go long or short, but not five.
I think the Marner one is not on term. The two sides have talked about a bunch of different years and both sides would do a three-year deal. But we know why they haven’t signed: They can’t agree on money.”

 

[Mr Hockey]

Not sure if you've heard but apparently the answer to all this team's problems is to hire a rookie coach too..

hahaha! the best post in the thread

 

[Leaf Fans]

Pierre LeBrun reports that NHL GM's are upset with Dubas for setting a precedent with that five year deal:

Boo hoo.

 

[93LEAFS]

You state these things like they are facts when in reality they just arent. You have no idea. These are just what you've perceived to be the truth.

The idea there was no negotiation with Matthews is completely ridiculous tbh.

The Leafs aren't leaking anything through Mirtle, just as Paul, Mitch and Ferris aren't doing so through Dreger

If they put any serious negotiation past what do you want into that deal, they truly messed up. They didn't didn't negotiate tough at all like they are have with Willy and Marner. Although, they caved on Willy. They feared an offer-sheet and bad PR so, they caved to 5 years very quickly.