Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Training camp looms

[Kiwi]

Dubas is a POS. Or Bobo is lying.

I'm convinced by your argument, Marner's definitely not a diva with an overinflated sense of self

It's Dubas fault for offering him that horrendous contract, why wouldn't he be at fault when sweet Mitch is involved

 

[Menzinger]

Shannahan needs to start taking heat for this decision. Completely unnecessary gamble when we are in compete mode. And it has gone as badly as predicted. If not worse.

3 of the most important contracts in decades and this guy decides to roll the dice with the greenest GM ever. And he's ****ed up every single one. We were so close to having something good. Sigh. Damage is done.

Hes turned down 8.5x3 and 7x11.

What else could a GM do?

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Go play in the swiss league until you're 27 and become a free agent. That will teach you for trying to extort the leafs. f*** you!

 

[Wafflewhipper]

His dad is a clown. He proved it on twitter and in the athletic write up

Maybe they are related to the Lindtos's! They couldn't keep their nose out of anything either.

Mitch Lindros has to go

 

[hizzoner]

Why's that. Marner is now the posterboy for headcase!!! He thinks and wants to be recognized as the face of the organization monetarily!

If thats not a arrogant headcase I don't know what is.

Not a Leaf fan but do like hockey players on any team that can raise the excitement level when on the ice. Gordie Howe (dang it) was a better player than Maurice Richard. But I was prepared to pay to see the Rocket more than to see Howe. Efficiency versus excitement? Matthews may be the better hockey player in that sense (when able to play) and because he is in a more important position but unless you are a Leaf only fan the fan excitement quotient is raised when Marner has the puck. Problem for Marner is Leafs sell out and have for decades whether the team is exciting or not.

 

[Menzinger]

Leaking like that is just more likely to lock someone into a position. Do we not remember Shanny's quotes at the beginning of year last year. Leaking numbers to the press like the current Leafs org has done since Lou left is a terrible idea in this marketplace. Just look at the ridiculous frenzy it started here today.

Its certainly less than ideal, but its a fairly clear indication that things have reached a new level.

There were zero team centric leaks during the Matthew's and Nyalnder negotiations. The different variable here is obvious...

 

[BlackEye from Xhekaj]

Hes turned down 8.5x3 and 7x11.

What else could a GM do?

Give him 3×11 and revisit this in 3 years

 

[Stephen]

Its certainly less than ideal, bitnits a fairly clear indication that things have reached a new level.

There were zero team centric leaks during the Matthew's and Nyalnder negotiations. The different variable here is obvious...

But does it mean that the Leafs are trying to lock Marner in at that ridiculous dollar amount, or does it signal to the world that they tried their best and the next steps are fair game?

 

[613Leafer]

I'm all for the Leafs taking a hardline approach to this.

Here are three contract offers. One 2-year bridge. One 6-year deal. One 8-year deal. Take your pick Marner, we're done negotiating. Feel free to seek out offersheets or sign in Europe. We will also explore trade options that are in the best interests of the team if you aren't interested in any of these contracts.

If his agent contacts you with counter offers, just send back a cookie cutter statement with these deals attached and reference again the options of taking one of these contracts, signing an offersheet, or going to Europe.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Give him 3×11 and revisit this in 3 years

3X11 is a terrible deal AND you possibly have to deal with this headache again in 3 years. Horrendous. So how about no?

 

[KPower]

If he really turned down 7x11 I think it’s time to move on from him.

 

[Bomber0104]

Matthew's contract is within his comparables for a goal scoring centre. Whether or not accept that fact is up to them I suppose. There's literally no playmaking winger contracts that can justify 11x7 or 8.5x3.

As others have suggested that the early October deadline poses serious cap issues for the Leafs trying to fit a contract of his size on the team without it majorly disrupting things. Those other players you listed spent the bulk of their careers in a pretty cap era. It's like comparing apples to pizza.

There's a huge difference between playing hardball.and making laughable demands. If there's a deal to be made that can improve the overall Leafs competovness now and in the longer term you have to think long and hard about accepting it.

Folks need to move on from emotional attachments to individual players and the notion that theesfs HAVE to sign him at all costs, no matter what the detriment to the team is.

To be blunt there are zero legitimate defences of him.turning down 77 million dollars -an actually historical precedent for a player of his position, statistical history and overall skillset. Not a single one.

There's not a single person posting in here saying that.

It's downright embarrassing that an $11M/year deal was even tabled to Marner in the first place, but that's the hole Dubas dug for himself when he gave Matthews the contract he did.

A lot of posters here realized that Matthews would be the direct comparable for Marner's agent to use but unfortunately people like you who said Marner should get no more than $9.5M were dead wrong.

I didn't want to be right but hey, I'm not ignorant of Marner as a player and how bad Dubas is at contracts.

 

[yubbers]

We all knew Mitch and his Dad would be a headache.

Dubas did this to himself. He set the stage with Willy for how every agent would deal with him moving forward. He didn't have the balls to sit Willy and trade him. That's why this is extra out of hand.

 

[Menzinger]

Give him 3×11 and revisit this in 3 years

That's disgusting cue for the team. Literally unprecedented by any other contract in league history.

I'd do it as a sign and trade. If hell only accept that on a 3 year deal now, hell be looking for 15-17 mil in 3 seasons.

It simply cant work.

 

[93LEAFS]

Matthew's contract is within his comparables for a goal scoring centre. Whether or not accept that fact is up to them I suppose. There's literally no playmaking winger contracts that can justify 11x7 or 8.5x3.

As others have suggested that the early October deadline poses serious cap issues for the Leafs trying to fit a contract of his size on the team without it majorly disrupting things. Those other players you listed spent the bulk of their careers in a pretty cap era. It's like comparing apples to pizza.

There's a huge difference between playing hardball.and making laughable demands. If there's a deal to be made that can improve the overall Leafs competovness now and in the longer term you have to think long and hard about accepting it.

Folks need to move on from emotional attachments to individual players and the notion that theesfs HAVE to sign him at all costs, no matter what the detriment to the team is.

To be blunt there are zero legitimate defences of him.turning down 77 million dollars -an actually historical precedent for a player of his position, statistical history and overall skillset. Not a single one.

The point was, they signed offer-sheets and came back to their teams to be great. Hell, Fedorov put Detroit in a ridiculous position. You label the kid a headcase with almost no evidence of it. The kid has been beloved by teammates his entire career. Is he running a tough negoiation absolutely. But, that doesn't make him a headcase. I guess Willy is also one because he held out until December 1st. We should probably trade that unreasonable person too.

And, no, the Matthews deal completely re-set the current market on RFA's. You can point to deals 10 years ago, but they are both outdated. The middle-ground was between Eichel and McDavid. We gave him the middle-ground financially but with 3 less years, walking him directly to UFA. We, also paid Nylander slightly above his comparables. At the time of Matthews deal, we made him the 2nd highest-paid player in the league, gave him an unreal bonus structure completely lockout protecting him (compare that to Eichel), and only locked him up for 5 years. No other RFA has gotten a deal like that. There isn't a comparable to that. If, we are going to pay Matthews like a UFA, there absolutely is a comparable for Marner which is Panarin, who got 11.7x7.

Look, I'm not saying Marner/Ferris/Paul are in the right, but the blind devotion without actually looking at what created this situation is ridiculous and completely one-sided. It's better to overpay him and trade him before his NTC kicks in then to trade him now, because he will not be able to dictate the trade, which will impact the return.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The answer is the same as it has been for months.

I think that marners best comparables haven’t signed yet. I want Toronto to wait and then use those.

It’s like I have said for months.

1.) nylander had earned 8.22-9.25 % on a 6 year deal based on comparables. He got 8.75 fine

2.) Matthews was so much better than the rest of the RFAs who weren’t mcdavid. Crosby. Ovy.

We didn’t have recent comparables. So dubas used historical.

Fine.

3.) marner has very recent comparables. I want to see what Rantanen. Point. Tkachuk get and base it off that.

I said this months ago.

Dubas hasn’t overpaid yet.
He might this time. We will see

Did you include Aho as a comparable to Marner months ago?

He signed 8.5x5

He scored more goals with worse linemates.

 

[A1LeafNation]

You have to think Marner doesn't want to be a leaf anymore.

 

[diceman934]

I'm convinced by your argument, Marner's definitely not a diva with an overinflated sense of self

It's Dubas fault for offering him that horrendous contract, why wouldn't he be at fault when sweet Mitch is involved

If you need it explained to you there is no use. Dubas is a pos period. He opened his yap when he announced the Mathews signing and it has continued since. Him and Burke are the same never seen a mic that they did not like.

 

[93LEAFS]

Its certainly less than ideal, but its a fairly clear indication that things have reached a new level.

There were zero team centric leaks during the Matthew's and Nyalnder negotiations. The different variable here is obvious...

Dubas leaked his expected price and contract deals to Mirtle post-Tavares, all of them have blown up outside of his estimate, and it pissed off all the agents involved. There were no leaks with Matthews because there wasn't a negotiation. He gave them a couple of options at crazy prices and they took one.

 

[Stephen]

We all knew Mitch and his Dad would be a headache.

Dubas did this to himself. He set the stage with Willy for how every agent would deal with him moving forward. He didn't have the balls to sit Willy and trade him. That's why this is extra out of hand.

Well, all things considered, Nylander at sub $7 million is a pure steal, knowing he'll likely rebound and stabilize as a 70 point player.

Matthews and Nylander were pure business. Marner is bad faith negotiating.

 

[Notsince67]

And yet still only 4 pts more overall

Yup. Maybe it was playing the powerplay with Matthews. Marner also saw a huge decline on the powerplay. Why does Marner carry the responsibility for JT not matching his powerplay career year? Was it Marners fault that his own production fell assigned to the high wall when 3 of the captain frontrunners played on the same unit? This argument is so tiresome.

 

[Legion34]

Did you include Aho as a comparable to Marner months ago?

He signed 8.5x5

He scored more goals with worse linemates.

Yep he’s one of the 4

 

[Legion34]

Yup. Maybe it was playing the powerplay with Matthews. Marner also saw a huge decline on the powerplay. Why does Marner carry the responsibility for JT not matching his powerplay career year? Was it Marners fault that his own production fell assigned to the high wall when 3 of the captain frontrunners played on the same unit? This argument is so tiresome.

What are your thoughts on the McKenzie reports?

 

[Alerion]

Dubas leaked his expected price and contract deals to Mirtle post-Tavares, all of them have blown up outside of his estimate, and it pissed off all the agents involved. There were no leaks with Matthews because there wasn't a negotiation. He gave them a couple of options at crazy prices and they took one.

Do you have any sort of source on this?

 

[kb]

Give him 3×11 and revisit this in 3 years

Who do you trade to fit that record setting bridge deal in?