Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Training camp looms

[SprDaVE]

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[taurine330]

How many more to go?

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs fans always go no matter who is in the line-up.

If they can't agree to a contract that works for both you trade him.

It will always come to that.

Team will move on and so will the player.

 

[Bomber0104]

You entertain BS once...... Don't be surprised when more ppl ask you to entertain it

Yup and Dubas is knee-deep in it now.

If the reports are true and he actually offered an $11M/7 year deal and had it rejected means this has pretty well turned into the worst possible case scenario imaginable.

That contract is as good, if not better than the Matthews deal.

 

[ULF_55]

Yup and Dubas is knee-deep in it now.

If the reports are true and he actually offered an $11M/7 year deal and had it rejected means this has pretty well turned into the worst possible case scenario imaginable.

That's contract is as good, if not better than the Matthews deal.

Yeah, leaves the option to trade him.

 

[Jack Bauer]

If he's actually turned down 7/77 then I see no option but to move on. This is just stupid at this point.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Playoffs are the only things that matter ...

I get what you mean, but I'm talking about for the purposes of contract valuation. Marner actually has very good playoff production over his career anyway.

And yes, he faced a challenge in the playoffs and came up short. He didn't produce because Tavares scored at 50% of his regular season pace. Tavares made the difference in the regular season, but couldn't do it in the post season.

Again, we are talking about a 7-game sample where one of his linemates had a major injury, and he played against one of the best teams in the game, against arguably the best line in hockey, and a really hot goalie. I don't think it's really fair to draw conclusion from that.

 

[SprDaVE]

Leafs fans always go no matter who is in the line-up.

If they can't agree to a contract that works for both you trade him.

It will always come to that.

Team will move on and so will the player.

I'm positive the idea of trading Marner is pretty much completely gone. Not only because of roster and cap problems, but also because of the media circus that would put on whoever acquires him. It's a whole lot different than if it happened late July where it's a lot more quiet and the optics are different. Also, if the Marner camp is rejecting 7x11M contracts and 3x.8.8M contracts, I'm pretty sure no other team wants him above those prices either. If they did, I'm sure an offer sheet would be signed already as well.

Marner will either sign a contract or sit out. I will confidently say that he will sign something at some point in training camp but I think there will be a lot of tension and I could see a lot of smoke about Marner being traded over the next year or two.

 

[ULF_55]

Previous Poll: Who will sign first

Boeser 39 vote(s) 18.1%
Connor 22 vote(s) 10.2%
Marner 21 vote(s) 9.7%
Point 77 vote(s) 35.6%
Rantanen 26 vote(s) 12.0%
Tkachuk 23 vote(s) 10.6%
Laine 8 vote(s) 3.7%

 

[Walshy7]

If he's actually turned down 7/77 then I see no option but to move on. This is just stupid at this point.

its finding a partner though. 7/77 is a pretty big overpayment for marner, the new team would have to not only pay that contract but give up fair value to us for marner

 

[Bomber0104]

Yeah, leaves the option to trade him.

Absolutely.

Exactly what should have been done with Nylander last season when he decided to hold out (and then shit the bed the rest of the season and tank his trade value).

 

[Jack Bauer]

Also...re: Dregers report...we can't just include past bonus money in a contract...is he that much up the agents a$$ that he actually needs to sell that part of an $11mil cap hit is $1.6 mil in back time bonuses he wasn't good enough to get out of Lou as the agent to sell this as something worse then it really is?

That he even mentioned that tells you how petty the Marner camp is. I honestly feel bad for the guy for being surrounded by fools.

 

[Jack Bauer]

its finding a partner though. 7/77 is a pretty big overpayment for marner, the new team would have to not only pay that contract but give up fair value to us for marner

I'd say that in this market 7/77 is fair market value. Right at Tavares money....not quite Matthews due to not having the goal scoring presence or being a #1 C. If he needs to break the Matthews number for his ego then I dont see any choice but to shop him.

 

[ULF_55]

I get what you mean, but I'm talking about for the purposes of contract valuation. Marner actually has very good playoff production over his career anyway.

Again, we are talking about a 7-game sample where one of his linemates had a major injury, and he played against one of the best teams in the game, against arguably the best line in hockey, and a really hot goalie. I don't think it's really fair to draw conclusion from that.

Yes, but if all that matters is the most recent 94 point season (in some minds), then all that really matters is how you perform in the big games.

I agree they came up against a superior line, something that doesn't happen as frequently when points are easier to come by.

What would you rather a player win, Art Ross or Conn Smythe?

 

[Walshy7]

I'm positive the idea of trading Marner is pretty much completely gone. Not only because of roster and cap problems, but also because of the media circus that would put on whoever acquires him. It's a whole lot different than if it happened late July where it's a lot more quiet and the optics are different. Also, if the Marner camp is rejecting 7x11M contracts and 3x.8.8M contracts, I'm pretty sure no other team wants him either.

Marner will either sign a contract or sit out. I will confidently say that he will sign something at some point in training camp but I think there will be a lot of tension and I could see a lot of smoke about Marner being traded in the course of the next year or two.

the media circus for the team that acquires him? TSN and Sportsnet aren't going to chase around a player that isn't a leaf anymore, unless he was traded to a Canadian team of course.

 

[SprDaVE]

Also...re: Dregers report...we can't just include past bonus money in a contract...is he that much up the agents a$$ that he actually needs to sell that part of an $11mil cap hit is $1.6 mil in back time bonuses he wasn't good enough to get out of Lou as the agent to sell this as something worse then it really is?

That he even mentioned that tells you how petty the Marner camp is. I honestly feel bad for the guy for being surrounded by fools.

What he means is that they offered more in the contract to make up for not including the bonuses in his ELC.

So basically they included ~1.6M more in the contract than they normally would.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Also...re: Dregers report...we can't just include past bonus money in a contract...is he that much up the agents a$$ that he actually needs to sell that part of an $11mil cap hit is $1.6 mil in back time bonuses he wasn't good enough to get out of Lou as the agent to sell this as something worse then it really is?

That he even mentioned that tells you how petty the Marner camp is. I honestly feel bad for the guy for being surrounded by fools.

It's a damn shame that the payday of his life is entirely surrounded by anger, hard feelings, an inner circle, and an outer circle of upset parties.

 

[SprDaVE]

the media circus for the team that acquires him? TSN and Sportsnet aren't going to chase around a player that isn't a leaf anymore, unless he was traded to a Canadian team of course.

Not only the circus for the other team but also the Leafs.

 

[Walshy7]

I'd say that in this market 7/77 is fair market value. Right at Tavares money....not quite Matthews due to not having the goal scoring presence or being a #1 C. If he needs to break the Matthews number for his ego then I dont see any choice but to shop him.

JT is also a 1C and a goal scoring presence, so no marner isn't an equal to him either. JT loses out a bit in terms of age compared to the Matthews comparison of course, but he is still a goal scoring 1C

 

[Jack Bauer]

Absolutely.

Exactly what should have been done with Nylander last season when he decided to hold out (and then **** the bed the rest of the season and tank his trade value).

Nylander signed a fair deal though. Took way too long to get there. But right now it's a 5 year/25mil contract that is an absolute bargain to most teams who would prefer the cap hit be the $7mil it is.

I have no issue with a hold out if the deal signed is fair.

Marner is about ego and setting new precedent. I let him do that in some obscure American market. Being a Toronto Maple Leaf and earning even more off endorsements more then offsets any BS tax implications like if he was saying playing in Tampa.

This has gotten out of hand. His earning potential is 1.5-2X in Toronto endorsement wise then in almost any other city on the continent. Why do taxes matter but not that residual income?

 

[Walshy7]

Not only the circus for the other team but also the Leafs.

well who cares, media circus for a few months and then every time the leafs play that team if we got fair value for marner especially in a Dman its worth dealing with. The other team, if a US team, would not care about a few times a year having to deal with Toronto media

 

[Jack Bauer]

JT is also a 1C and a goal scoring presence, so no marner isn't an equal to him either. JT loses out a bit in terms of age compared to the Matthews comparison of course, but he is still a goal scoring 1C

Which is why I think it's fair as there's still respect being given to even put him at Tavares money when he should be right at $10 or $10.5 at the most based on Kucherov's deal.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm positive the idea of trading Marner is pretty much completely gone. Not only because of roster and cap problems, but also because of the media circus that would put on whoever acquires him. It's a whole lot different than if it happened late July where it's a lot more quiet and the optics are different. Also, if the Marner camp is rejecting 7x11M contracts and 3x.8.8M contracts, I'm pretty sure no other team wants him above those prices either. If they did, I'm sure an offer sheet would be signed already as well.

Marner will either sign a contract or sit out. I will confidently say that he will sign something at some point in training camp but I think there will be a lot of tension and I could see a lot of smoke about Marner being traded over the next year or two.

Actually, trading him out of Canada probably eliminates the circus.

I think the compensation not the price is what stops teams from offersheeting him, and the fact he thinks he can get whatever he wants in Toronto.

Leafs have to entertain trading him, the same way that marner entertained offersheets.

 

[Jack Bauer]

well who cares, media circus for a few months and then every time the leafs play that team if we got fair value for marner especially in a Dman its worth dealing with. The other team, if a US team, would not care about a few times a year having to deal with Toronto media

Marner for Provorov...does either side not think long and hard about that?

 

[Bomber0104]

Nylander signed a fair deal though. Took way too long to get there. But right now it's a 5 year/25mil contract that is an absolute bargain to most teams who would prefer the cap hit be the $7mil it is.

I have no issue with a hold out if the deal signed is fair.

Marner is about ego and setting new precedent. I let him do that in some obscure American market. Being a Toronto Maple Leaf and earning even more off endorsements more then offsets any BS tax implications like if he was saying playing in Tampa.

This has gotten out of hand. His earning potential is 1.5-2X in Toronto endorsement wise then in almost any other city on the continent. Why do taxes matter but not that residual income?

Nylander set his own precedent by holding out until the last possible minute and then played like dog-shit the rest of the year.

I guess Marner feels he can do the same thing now with impunity.