Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Training camp looms

[Throw More Waffles]

His original ask was 8 million. So yes he did

So if it was "leaked" that Marner was asking for 13 million over 6 years, and Dubas signed him for 10 million over 6 years, you'd still consider it a Dubas victory? He "lowered Nylanders ask" by 3 million?

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

15.7% at time of contract starting. And at eight years. FOUR ufa years. Matthews has 1 ufa year, and is 14.2% over 5 years.

It's a joke. Matthews would be right around 15.7% over 8 years. The same as McDavid. Oh my GOD is Dubas ever bad at his job.

apparently he's Malkin 2.0 but can't produce the results cause he gets injured alot and we don't get enough PP's.

there's always some out people have to avoid criticizing Dubas

 

[diceman934]

What about the Aho contract to gauge Marner's value? Did this all just get completely disregarded because it doesn't line up with Marner's unprecedented ask?

Why would you accept Dreger's nonsense when there's a signed RFA to go off of?

Aho on the Habs would have been the highest paid Forward. Internal cap structure is a real thing. Mathews should have gotten a lot less on his 5 year deal. Marner out produced him and wants to be valued the same.

 

[yubbers]

Exactly. The amount of nonsense is laughable. What I have learned is that Dubas was a piss poor choice as a GM. He leaks info to the media. What a joke.

Shannahan needs to start taking heat for this decision. Completely unnecessary gamble when we are in compete mode. And it has gone as badly as predicted. If not worse.

3 of the most important contracts in decades and this guy decides to roll the dice with the greenest GM ever. And he's f***ed up every single one. We were so close to having something good. Sigh. Damage is done.

 

[Legion34]

So pretend that's the case and McDavid is a team player and not greedy.

That makes Matthews not a team player and greedy?!

How is that any better?

The General Manager of Edmonton....I repeat....EDMONTON....convinced the best hockey player in the world to stay long-term and for a team-discount.

Let that sink in.

17% is dramatically lol different than 14%
Top players get that.

Tier below stars get 14%. Just like has happened for years.

It’s not like we jumped in a Delorean and signed RFAs to 5 year deals at 13.85-16.54% to make dubas look good. It’s all there

 

[TribalPhoenix]

IMO the Leafs are prepared to let him sit and take their chances with the roster as it is.

Other teams can't wait. They arent good enough (except Tampa)

Precisely. Only one key RFA forward is in the Eastern Conference (Point). It's much more volatile out west with Tkachuk, Rantanen, Laine, etc.

Teams aren't going to cripple themselves waiting on Marner. His demands are beyond the pale. The market will dictate his worth.

FWIW, my preference is the Leafs let him sit. Hard deadline of October 1st, then shut down to next year. Let him play in Switzerland, his value will only drop. Players can only negotiate with one team, but teams have a whole system of guys who get the chance to fill his spot.

If he loses the year, he loses 11M$ dollars. If he's played in Europe, even if he puts up 200 points in Switzerland, no one is going to pay him enough to make up that loss. Basic economics, his representation is playing a game of chicken.

 

[Legion34]

15.7% at time of contract starting. And at eight years. FOUR ufa years. Matthews has 1 ufa year, and is 14.2% over 5 years.

It's a joke. Matthews would be right around 15.7% over 8 years. The same as McDavid. Oh my GOD is Dubas ever bad at his job.

Ya he signed in a completely different landscape. Gambling. 2 expansions. New TV deal.

It’s totally different.

But regardless. Better player on a better contract. Sure.

 

[diceman934]

Shannahan needs to start taking heat for this decision. Completely unnecessary gamble when we are in compete mode. And it has gone as badly as predicted. If not worse.

It is worse then I predicted. He is a joke.

 

[Fogelhund]

Sergei
@berezin_goal
·
3h
I was told in 2012 that there was a 15 year old kid named Mitch Marner who was sick at hockey but his dad was a bitch. Dude was right.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

Shannahan needs to start taking heat for this decision. Completely unnecessary gamble when we are in compete mode. And it has gone as badly as predicted. If not worse.

Guy who has zero experience managing an NHL team hires GM who also in turn has zero experience. What could possibly go wrong.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Then they shouldn't have caved to Matthews.

I'm a Leafs fan, but man, people really ignore the reality of pro-sports. If your Marner, why do you take a pay cut to accommodate the Matthews and JT deal, when it doesn't guarantee you anything? And, seriously, we are still 2 days away from camp, and 3 weeks from the season, and people are just melting down. There hasn't been a single serious deadline passed yet. It's actually hilarious the frenzy people manage to work themselves into. It's like they never learned sports was a business.

Fine! He needs more than we can afford. Bye bye Magic and good luck. Wish it was that easy but teams would want a signature on a contract begore agreeing to a deal and who is going to pay $11 million?

Disgraceful player agent and parent representation to our fanbase. Its time to move on and i will love every 40 goal or more season Matthews gives us. He's worth the money and the term was the issue

 

[Legion34]

Aho on the Habs would have been the highest paid Forward. Internal cap structure is a real thing. Mathews should have gotten a lot less on his 5 year deal. Marner out produced him and wants to be valued the same.

Well then he should have scored 50 more goals. I mean he had 30 more games... better linemates. More pp time to do jt

 

[Menzinger]

yea, I don't get it, is he purposely trying to turn Leaf nation against Mitch and using that as a negotiating strategy?

Should be clear now. Leafs have kept things fairly quite for the summer. woth Marner now refusing multiple overly generous offers, looks like the Leafs are switching tactics to use public pressure to get Mitch to sign.

The most comfortable I've ever seen Marner was the day after Ferris ran his mouth on tsn radio about the Matthews.contract. not.sure he has the stomach to be known as a villain, but we'll see I suppose

 

[BertCorbeau]

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Ya he signed in a completely different landscape. Gambling. 2 expansions. New TV deal.

It’s totally different.

But regardless. Better player on a better contract. Sure.

Isn't Aho in that same different landscape? 8.5x5? 22 years old? 30 goal/83 point season last year?

It seems this "new landscape" only seems to affect Dubas...
The other rfa's holding out are just waiting for his latest blunder as additional leverage.

 

[Legion34]

apparently he's Malkin 2.0 but can't produce the results cause he gets injured alot and we don't get enough PP's.

there's always some out people have to avoid criticizing Dubas

If he was malkin 2.0 he would have signed for 12.75

 

[diceman934]

Well then he should have scored 50 more goals. I mean he had 30 more games... better linemates. More pp time to do jt

His ppg was better or as a fan of the Avalanche you would not know that.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Well then he should have scored 50 more goals. I mean he had 30 more games... better linemates. More pp time to do jt

Now compare Aho, his linemates, and his goals to Marner...

8.5x5

 

[Legion34]

Isn't Aho in that same different landscape? 8.5x5? 22 years old? 30 goal/83 point season last year?

It seems this "new landscape" only seems to affect Dubas...
The other rfa's holding out are just waiting for his latest blunder as additional leverage.

Nope. ELC counts. Just like Laine. Remember?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Nope. ELC counts. Just like Laine. Remember?

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You still think Marner is an "overpayment" at anything above 6.6x6

You don't think that anymore? Surprising. lol

What do you think Marner's absolute ceiling should be for upper end of fair market value at 3 years and 8 years?

 

[93LEAFS]

Should be clear now. Leafs have kept things fairly quite for the summer. woth Marner now refusing multiple overly generous offers, looks like the Leafs are switching tactics to use public pressure to get Mitch to sign.

The most comfortable I've ever seen Marner was the day after Ferris ran his mouth on tsn radio about the Matthews.contract. not.sure he has the stomach to be known as a villain, but we'll see I suppose

Leaking like that is just more likely to lock someone into a position. Do we not remember Shanny's quotes at the beginning of year last year. Leaking numbers to the press like the current Leafs org has done since Lou left is a terrible idea in this marketplace. Just look at the ridiculous frenzy it started here today.

 

[kb]

If he was malkin 2.0 he would have signed for 12.75

New signup today. Just to take shots in here. Hmmm.

 

[Bomber0104]

Guy who has zero experience managing an NHL team hires GM who also in turn has zero experience. What could possibly go wrong.

Not sure if you've heard but apparently the answer to all this team's problems is to hire a rookie coach too..

 

[Menzinger]

You wait them out to a point.

He wants the Matthews deal, which we never should have given out in the first place. But, people will blindly defend that because it already happened. Nothing has changed. Nothing will happen until a serious deadline in place which is the start of the season. But, people are letting the media work them into a frenzy. Almost no other elite RFA's are signed.

Apparent headcase because he's driving a hard bargain in negotiation. The guy is loved by his teammates. I guess Messier, Sakic, and Fedorov were also all headcases.

Matthew's contract is within his comparables for a goal scoring centre. Whether or not accept that fact is up to them I suppose. There's literally no playmaking winger contracts that can justify 11x7 or 8.5x3.

As others have suggested that the early October deadline poses serious cap issues for the Leafs trying to fit a contract of his size on the team without it majorly disrupting things. Those other players you listed spent the bulk of their careers in a pretty cap era. It's like comparing apples to pizza.

There's a huge difference between playing hardball.and making laughable demands. If there's a deal to be made that can improve the overall Leafs competovness now and in the longer term you have to think long and hard about accepting it.

Folks need to move on from emotional attachments to individual players and the notion that theesfs HAVE to sign him at all costs, no matter what the detriment to the team is.

To be blunt there are zero legitimate defences of him.turning down 77 million dollars -an actually historical precedent for a player of his position, statistical history and overall skillset. Not a single one.

 

[Legion34]

You still think Marner is an "overpayment" at anything above 6.6x6

You don't think that anymore? Surprising. lol

What do you think Marner's absolute ceiling should be for upper end of fair market value at 3 years and 8 years?

The answer is the same as it has been for months.

I think that marners best comparables haven’t signed yet. I want Toronto to wait and then use those.

It’s like I have said for months.

1.) nylander had earned 8.22-9.25 % on a 6 year deal based on comparables. He got 8.75 fine

2.) Matthews was so much better than the rest of the RFAs who weren’t mcdavid. Crosby. Ovy.

We didn’t have recent comparables. So dubas used historical.

Fine.

3.) marner has very recent comparables. I want to see what Rantanen. Point. Tkachuk get and base it off that.

I said this months ago.

Dubas hasn’t overpaid yet.
He might this time. We will see

 

[Stephen]

The problem is how to walk back from this disaster. Do the Leafs still have the $11 million contract on the table? We don't even want to give him that.