Mark Arcobello

[Aerchon]

I don't really live in a world of contradictions. If you really want to argue that Sam has had his numbers pumped, you can only really do so by pointing to last season when he played half the season with Hall and Eberle as his wingers after RNH went down. He posted nearly a 0.8 ppg that season. For all the other years he's been in the NHL he was a consistent 0.6 ppg player whether he's got Patrick O'Sullivan or Ales Hemsky on his wings.

Gagner is a much better defensive player than you give him credit for. He showed that last season when he was given the task of matching up against other teams top lines. Arcobello is not, to date, a better player than Sam Gagner. I'll go as far to say that I find it extremely unlikely that Arcobello plays well enough, for long enough, that the Oilers will find Sam Gagner expendable.

Here's my prediction for what happens:
- Sam comes back and takes his spot as the 2C (because veterans don't lose their spot in the lineup due to injury)
- Arcobello ends up playing between Jones/Smyth/Random 3rd liners, his point production plummets.
- HFOil starts calling for him to be sent back to the AHL

Gagner has played first or second line minutes pretty much every single night since he came into the league. While we have our best top 6 this year by a lot IMO to say he has been given less to work with than Arco is creative denial.

I am not exactly sure why liking Gagner the way you do means Arco sucks. He obviously doesn't. He clearly is the better player in the small sample size. I don't know if I can type enough until you admit that fact but it is very clear.

Your rationalization of him dropping to the third line and not producing could easily be used against Gagner as well.

Although I must admit your prediction is unfortunately the highest probability of a few senerios. I will counter it with the least likely and most desirable prediction myself.

Acro continues to rip it up until Gagner comes back late November. Adding a half dozen goals or more to go with his impressive assists.

Gagner comes back on the wing 3rd line, plays ok but ends up part of a multi player package that brings in a great goalie player/prospect and/or an upgrade for our forwards and/or D-corp.

 

[SterlingArcher]

It's become somewhat annoying to see people arguing over this. Just play both and have three scoring lines then.

 

[AlowlyMcOilersfan]

It's become somewhat annoying to see people arguing over this. Just play both and have three scoring lines then.

Might as well put Gagner on the wing while Hall is out.

When Hall is back, demote Acton.

Then you have pretty darn good center depth.

 

[Aerchon]

Might as well put Gagner on the wing while Hall is out.

When Hall is back, demote Acton.

Then you have pretty darn good center depth.

Very good center depth.

But also the most tiny diminutive group of centers maybe in the history of the NHL.

While I think Arco has the ability to play any line because of his hockey IQ and positioning/defensive awareness I would prefer a player like Acton who can drop the gloves, agitate, or crush someone with a hit every once in awhile for our fourth line center.

 

[SchultzSquared*]

Why can we not live with both...

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Smyth-Arcobello-Hemsky
Joensuu/Gazdic-Gordon-Pitlick
Acton Jones

 

[tempest2i]

Why can we not live with both...

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Smyth-Arcobello-Hemsky
Joensuu/Gazdic-Gordon-Pitlick
Acton Jones

Because we have no indication at the moment that Arcobello isn't a flash in the pan and won't become a complete non-factor if you stick him on a line with Smyth and Hemsky or anyone else that doesn't play a high-skill game. I'd rather play Gordon on the 3rd line and dress a guy who can throw a check and PK like a demon on the fourth line.

I hope he proves me wrong, I'm just not sold on him yet.

 

[bucks_oil]

Very good center depth.

But also the most tiny diminutive group of centers maybe in the history of the NHL.

While I think Arco has the ability to play any line because of his hockey IQ and positioning/defensive awareness I would prefer a player like Acton who can drop the gloves, agitate, or crush someone with a hit every once in awhile for our fourth line center.

I'd hope for that too, but we haven't seen nearly enough of that... I'd plant him firmly in competition with Arco for ice time. Then let's see which of them rises to the challenge on a nightly basis. So far I'd have to bet on Arco.... and given our 4th line wingers, I'm not too worried about size there.

On night A, run with: Eager Arco Gadzic
On night B, run with: Smyth Acton Gadzic

My guess is you'll see all around better play on night A than night B.

 

[Aerchon]

Because we have no indication at the moment that Arcobello isn't a flash in the pan and won't become a complete non-factor if you stick him on a line with Smyth and Hemsky or anyone else that doesn't play a high-skill game. I'd rather play Gordon on the 3rd line and dress a guy who can throw a check and PK like a demon on the fourth line.

I hope he proves me wrong, I'm just not sold on him yet.

Your in denial. Or clinicly blind and having a bitter Gagner feed you the play by play.

He set up at least one of Smyths tap in goals and was a big part of the Hemsky & Jones goals last night.

With the Eakins blender Arco has been part of at least 6 different Oilers goals. Not just Eberle or Perron.

You should probably just stop making stuff up and try to watch the game. Might help ya out a bit if you actually say something that isn't 100% wrong.

 

[Aerchon]

I'd hope for that too, but we haven't seen nearly enough of that... I'd plant him firmly in competition with Arco for ice time. Then let's see which of them rises to the challenge on a nightly basis. So far I'd have to bet on Arco.... and given our 4th line wingers, I'm not too worried about size there.

On night A, run with: Eager Arco Gadzic
On night B, run with: Smyth Acton Gadzic

My guess is you'll see all around better play on night A than night B.

Eager and Acro would defiantly be able to muster a lot more offense than our typically fourth line.

Just don't think he would work as well as Acton with those two.

Worth a shot I suppose.

 

[tempest2i]

Your in denial. Or clinicly blind and having a bitter Gagner feed you the play by play.

He set up at least one of Smyths tap in goals and was a big part of the Hemsky & Jones goals last night.

With the Eakins blender Arco has been part of at least 6 different Oilers goals. Not just Eberle or Perron.

You should probably just stop making stuff up and try to watch the game. Might help ya out a bit if you actually say something that isn't 100% wrong.

*shrug*

I think Arcobello has a AHL calibre shot, he'll lose his assist finding horseshoe and he'll come back down to earth, eventually getting shipped back to OKC.

But hey, if you think he's the Oilers future 2C, I hope you defend him as vigorously as all the Omark zealots defend Omark.

 

[Da McBomb]

The one thing I'm really surprised about is Arco's faceoff percentage. For a 'smaller' rookie, its quite amazing that he is doing so well in the dot.

 

[bucks_oil]

Gagner has played first or second line minutes pretty much every single night since he came into the league. While we have our best top 6 this year by a lot IMO to say he has been given less to work with than Arco is creative denial.

I am not exactly sure why liking Gagner the way you do means Arco sucks. He obviously doesn't. He clearly is the better player in the small sample size. I don't know if I can type enough until you admit that fact but it is very clear.

.

I know you guys just want to fight (err.... debate), but I thought I might look into it.

Arcobello has spent (in aggregate), 70% of this 5v5 time with Eberle (71%) and Hall/Perron (72%)

Here are Sam Gagner's top icemates over the years, according to behindthenet

2012-13: MPS (46%), Hemsky (44%), Yakupov (41%)
2011-12: Hemsky (44%), Hall (31%), Eberle (29%), Belanger (19%)
2010-11: MPS (45%) Hall/Hemsky/Omark all at 28-29%
2009-10: Penner (54%), Nilsson (26%), Cogliano (19%), Brule (18%)
2008-2009: Nilsson (55%) Cole (30%), Cogs (22%)
2007-2008: Nilsson (43%), then Cogs (39%), Stoll (18%)

It looks like Sam had great talent last year, a mixed bag in 2010-12, and pretty green linemates in the years prior.

Arco's been doing great and is earning his right to stick around on A line. But let's not forget Gagner was leading the team in scoring for the first ~30 games last year.

 

[harpoon]

Right now, Applebello is playing better as our #2C than Gagner has in 400+ GP with us. So yeah...until he plays himself out of the position, it's his to loose. Gags or no Gags.

We all like Arco .... but comments like this show a pitiful lack of understanding of the game of hockey.

Arco's defensive game and positioning make Gagner look like the rookie rather than visa versa.

It is too small a sample to flush Gagner and put the hero hat on Arco but there is no question that Arco is superior to Gagner to date.

This one too ...

 

[Aerchon]

*shrug*

I think Arcobello has a AHL calibre shot, he'll lose his assist finding horseshoe and he'll come back down to earth, eventually getting shipped back to OKC.

But hey, if you think he's the Oilers future 2C, I hope you defend him as vigorously as all the Omark zealots defend Omark.

Lol.

I am impressed. I think I have shot down every piece of BS you have randomly made up to support your opinion. And yet you still are holding to your guns.

Arco has an ok shot from everything I have seen... in the AHL. Your at least barking up the right tree on this one. Until he pops a couple you can play this one up.

However, I think you have underestimated his play making grossly. He could bank them off Smytty all day long if he has too.

I am NOT an Omark supporter. He came in with a bang because of the shoot-out spin-o-rama but it was pretty easy to see his play style did not work against NHL defenders. By the end of the season only blind supporters (much like you with Gagner) still thought this guy could be an impact player.

The thing you are just not seeing, somehow, is Arco's overall game. His face offs, and positioning are stellar. Far above what Gagner has shown to date.

While it's possible he tumbles down to uselessness I think that there is a very small chance of that.

It's very likely he will get worse, only cause he is playing lights out right now. Tied for 15th in the league for points 10 games in his rookie year... Impressive to say the least.

I will also repeat there is still the possibility he gets even better.

While it's too early to say he is our future #2 center I think it's far too early to discount the incredibly strong play he has had to date.

 

[Aerchon]

We all like Arco .... but comments like this show a pitiful lack of understanding of the game of hockey.

This one too ...

Sigh.

By the end of this thread I am going to be a Gagner hater.

Gagner is not a #1 center. Who never makes mistakes and is a beast in his own zone.

He is a one dimensional forward slowly, very slowly, rounding out his overall game.

I thought he took a big step forward offensively last year and a small step back defensively. 2 years ago Gagner took a big step defensively forward. He keeps going in that direction overall and I am looking forward to winning some cups with him in our line up.

But if you think, even for a moment, that Gagner is even "reasonably good" defensively you show a pitiful lack of understanding of the game of hockey.

Its an obvious deficiency in his game.

There are few, if any, other teams/fans desperate to add Gagner to their team. Homers love him but that's about it.

Homers love him.

Others thinks he sucks.

The truth is in the middle.

But if you claim you watch hockey and can't see Arco is outperforming Gagner in the faceoff dot and positionally... yeah. Look in the mirror. Look very hard.

And ask yourself.

WTF am I thinking

 

[Aerchon]

I know you guys just want to fight (err.... debate), but I thought I might look into it.

Arcobello has spent (in aggregate), 70% of this 5v5 time with Eberle (71%) and Hall/Perron (72%)

Here are Sam Gagner's top icemates over the years, according to behindthenet

2012-13: MPS (46%), Hemsky (44%), Yakupov (41%)
2011-12: Hemsky (44%), Hall (31%), Eberle (29%), Belanger (19%)
2010-11: MPS (45%) Hall/Hemsky/Omark all at 28-29%
2009-10: Penner (54%), Nilsson (26%), Cogliano (19%), Brule (18%)
2008-2009: Nilsson (55%) Cole (30%), Cogs (22%)
2007-2008: Nilsson (43%), then Cogs (39%), Stoll (18%)

It looks like Sam had great talent last year, a mixed bag in 2010-12, and pretty green linemates in the years prior.

Arco's been doing great and is earning his right to stick around on A line. But let's not forget Gagner was leading the team in scoring for the first ~30 games last year.

I am playing devils advocate as much as anything else and trying to cut through some serious blind hate for a player who is playing brilliant right now.

You numbers don't make a lot of sense to me. I was talking about ice time and relative quality of line. Aka top 6 quality.

2009-10 Penner, Hemsky, and Gagner were our top line till Hemsy got injured. Sad as it is all those names listed thru all the years were being primarily used in a top 6 role while playing with Gagner.

There were a few times where he dropped to the third or even fourth line but really those were few and far between. The kid line was running 15 minutes a game+ for a lot of their first 2 seasons.

I think.

 

[Supermassive]

We all like Arco .... but comments like this show a pitiful lack of understanding of the game of hockey.

This one too ...

Yup.

 

[awesomo]

Sigh.



Gagner is not a #1 center. Who never makes mistakes and is a beast in his own zone.

who said he was?

 

[McBooya42]

We all like Arco .... but comments like this show a pitiful lack of understanding of the game of hockey.

This one too ...

So Ad Hominem attacks prove a great understanding of the game of hockey?

Yes, it's a small sample size but he's proven in his 10 games so far that he can be more defensively responsible, and more productive points wise...in that small sample. The only time Sam was a PPG player was maybe that 8 pt night.

The point is, that he's flourished so far in the role, and brought everything that Sam does to the table and then some (minus the leadership and experience IMO).

Now try to come back with something that doesn't attack the poster whose opinion you disagree with...

 

[Aerchon]

who said he was?

There some people who are making Gagner sound like he is the best 2 way center in the game.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Solid player that I'm really happy is getting a fair shake this year. Too bad it took RNH and Gagner to give him more than the 1 game cup of coffee he had last season... but he's definitely making the most of his time up here this year so far and is actually an asset at this point.. not just a place filler until broken bodies get back on the roster.

A really pleasant surprise so far... no doubt he cools off as the season progresses but I'm betting he's going to keep it up at a more moderate pace and be a legit offensive centre talent going forward. If he ever actually learns to bury a few chances he could be a REALLY solid gem.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Hall-Gagner-Yakupov (great chemistry last year very offence heavy more of a second line)
Joensuu-Hopkins-Eberle (RNH and Ebs can play together feel they could use a net driver and grit)
Perron-Arcobello-Hemsky (two way line solid chemistry can play really against any line)
Smyth-Gordon-Pitlick (not a true fourth line more of a shutdown grinder third line can play 10-15 min)


Looks balanced no??

 

[Aerchon]

Hall-Gagner-Yakupov (great chemistry last year very offence heavy more of a second line)
Joensuu-Hopkins-Eberle (RNH and Ebs can play together feel they could use a net driver and grit)
Perron-Arcobello-Hemsky (two way line solid chemistry can play really against any line)
Smyth-Gordon-Pitlick (not a true fourth line more of a shutdown grinder third line can play 10-15 min)


Looks balanced no??

I think hockey players are finicky with their ice time. Be tough to get everyone to buy into that kind of set up.

But I would agree with you. Very balanced. Great set of forwards.

 

[Mcnofool6110]

Hall-Gagner-Yakupov (great chemistry last year very offence heavy more of a second line)
Joensuu-Hopkins-Eberle (RNH and Ebs can play together feel they could use a net driver and grit)
Perron-Arcobello-Hemsky (two way line solid chemistry can play really against any line)
Smyth-Gordon-Pitlick (not a true fourth line more of a shutdown grinder third line can play 10-15 min)


Looks balanced no??

I'm with you on this one - I really like this lineup.

EDIT: This really belongs on the "Line combination if we're healthy" thing, so I'll make this Arcobelloates-centric

Put Perron-Arcobello-Hemsky on against an opposing teams fourth line.
I don't care how much you're paid in this league, you'd be thanking your lucky stars if you're Hemsky and you get to play exclusively against the Sestitos and Stortinis of the world. If Arcobello keeps it up, we've got a three line scoring line punch which very few teams have the defensive capability to match (st. lou, LAK)

 

[Oiltankjob Fail]

Moving Gagner to the Wings would be an early Christmas present.

I see what you did there