Marc Methot II: Wheel of Fortune Edition

[Wondercarrot]

didnt he say Melnyk was hacking him from Ukraine?

and didnt he show screen shots of the isp and then show that it traced back to a childrens foundation melynk funded in the ukraine?

 

[Wondercarrot]

Just out of curiosity, on how many other teams do you estimate Methot to be a top pairing defenceman? And of those how many would pay him $5.5 million?

he's a #2/3 on any team in the league with the possible exception of nashville and maybe another im forgetting.
that's worth 5-6 million on the open market and the 5 year term he likely wants.
there would be 10-15 teams at least IMO that would make him that offer in the summer.

 

[Ice-Tray]

There are issues being discussed, but the overall team budget is not one of them.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

and didnt he show screen shots of the isp and then show that it traced back to a childrens foundation melynk funded in the ukraine?

Didnt hear about that lol interested how he would trace an isp back to a specific ip address for a computer used at the childrens foundation. Either way i'm sure most of Ukraine largely uses the same isp. I mean when i was working in northern manitoba i had Rogers as an isp. I think like 50 percent of canada has rogers as an isp lol on top of that my ip address would trace back to british columbia when in fact i've only spent a week there in my whole life. Its very easy to cover up your ip address if anyone was smart enough to hack Yost they'd be smart enough to hide there ip especially when it could be traced back to a multi millionaire.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Pretty sure Yost started off at hockeybuzz.

Oh the guy who has a hard-on for Melnyk and uses advanced stats like there's no tomorrow?

Not the best example.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Now now, I'm sure there's plenty of good writers at Hockeybuzz somewhere.

You can sometimes find diamonds in all kinds of roughage.

True, but you're going to have to dig through plenty of soiled diapers, used tampons, have eaten mcribs and condom wrappers to find it. If it's even there

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

and didnt he show screen shots of the isp and then show that it traced back to a childrens foundation melynk funded in the ukraine?

THere was nothing definitive that Melnyk was behind it. It bordered on libel.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Methot would never sign a 2/3/4 year deal though so who cares what we can stomach?
He's 29 years old and its incredibly unlikely that his value will be the same or higher in 2-4 years than it is now, and I'm sure he knows that.

On the UFA market he'll be getting 5-7 and even if he takes a tad less money to stay here I doubt the term is even negotiable, its got to be 5+

I doubt Methot gets more than $5.5M on the open market this summer unless the CDN$ recovers significantly, at least to the mid-high 80 cent level.

Currently it would appears the cap will only rise by ~$2M ($71M) and that is only if the NHLPA exercises its 5% escalator clause, which isn't a guarantee at this point.

Even assuming the cap rises to $71M, over half the league will have little money to spend on adding players and many of the top spending teams will be faced with shedding talent.

So a player like Methot might not face as friendly a market place as some are assuming.

The question GMs will/should be asking, Is Methot a genuine top pairing D-man on any team in the league besides Ottawa?

IMO the answer is NO, so what is a 3-4 guy worth in today's economic world?

I believe a fair offer for Methot is $4.5M for 3 years.

If I was Murray I would be shopping Methot vigorously to establish the optimum return prior to considering adding dollars or term to above numbers.

 

[Wondercarrot]

THere was nothing definitive that Melnyk was behind it. It bordered on libel.

what does that even mean it bordered on libel. it either was or it wasnt, and clearly it wasnt.
IIRC he related facts; ie. he wrote a pile of pieces critical and skeptical of his finances using publicly available information.
he then had his articles removed by someone else
Melnyk was critical of "the useless blogger" publicly
it happened again, and he posted screen shots of what he found which oddly showed a ukrainian IP address that seem to be associated with foundation which Melnyk heads up.

I believe those are all facts, certainly someone could have spoofed it etc who knows - i dont think Melnyk sat down at a computer and hacked him, i also doubt but dont completely discount the possibility of him wishing bad things on Yost and directing someone to do it or it could have been someone who loves Melnyk and wanted to screw with yost or it could have been a random series of events but usually the simplest explanation is the right one.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

In the open market he'll easily get $5.5M.

He could be a top pairing on a lot of teams IMO.
Too many too name.

He doesn't have that rocket shot, but that doesn't mean he's not a top guy.

Like the poster above me noted. He's a number 1 here. And for $5M, he's worth it.

While I respect your opinion I don't agree Methot is a top pairing Dman on very many teams in the league.

Methot is a support guy in the ideal circumstance today, playing with a young and maturing EK.

On the occasions last year when Methot played 2nd and even 3rd pairing minutes he didn't stand out at all.

While many seem to give Methot all the credit for EK's improvement, I believe the new coach has been the major factor.

Not only has EK player better, so has the other young D-men as well as the young forwards.

Surely Methot didn't cause all the improvements to occur.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

what does that even mean it bordered on libel. it either was or it wasnt, and clearly it wasnt.
IIRC he related facts; ie. he wrote a pile of pieces critical and skeptical of his finances using publicly available information.
he then had his articles removed by someone else
Melnyk was critical of "the useless blogger" publicly
it happened again, and he posted screen shots of what he found which oddly showed a ukrainian IP address that seem to be associated with foundation which Melnyk heads up.

I believe those are all facts, certainly someone could have spoofed it etc who knows - i dont think Melnyk sat down at a computer and hacked him, i also doubt but dont completely discount the possibility of him wishing bad things on Yost and directing someone to do it or it could have been someone who loves Melnyk and wanted to screw with yost or it could have been a random series of events but usually the simplest explanation is the right one.

No in this age of internet craziness!!

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

what does that even mean it bordered on libel. it either was or it wasnt, and clearly it wasnt.
IIRC he related facts; ie. he wrote a pile of pieces critical and skeptical of his finances using publicly available information.
he then had his articles removed by someone else
Melnyk was critical of "the useless blogger" publicly
it happened again, and he posted screen shots of what he found which oddly showed a ukrainian IP address that seem to be associated with foundation which Melnyk heads up.

I believe those are all facts, certainly someone could have spoofed it etc who knows - i dont think Melnyk sat down at a computer and hacked him, i also doubt but dont completely discount the possibility of him wishing bad things on Yost and directing someone to do it or it could have been someone who loves Melnyk and wanted to screw with yost or it could have been a random series of events but usually the simplest explanation is the right one.

You mean unknown blogger invents controversy to gain publicity? I agree

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Currently it would appears the cap will only rise by ~$2M ($71M) and that is only if the NHLPA exercises its 5% escalator clause, which isn't a guarantee at this point.

It would be unbelievably dumb for the PA to not use the escalator

I remain convinced that the only reason it keeps getting brought up is that because someone, somewhere noticed that if they didn't use it it would be disastrous and everybody ran with it

There's no way the PA doesn't use the escalator, the ramification of not doing so would run a lot of older plays out of the league

 

[Micklebot]

what does that even mean it bordered on libel. it either was or it wasnt, and clearly it wasnt.
IIRC he related facts; ie. he wrote a pile of pieces critical and skeptical of his finances using publicly available information.
he then had his articles removed by someone else
Melnyk was critical of "the useless blogger" publicly
it happened again, and he posted screen shots of what he found which oddly showed a ukrainian IP address that seem to be associated with foundation which Melnyk heads up.

I believe those are all facts, certainly someone could have spoofed it etc who knows - i dont think Melnyk sat down at a computer and hacked him, i also doubt but dont completely discount the possibility of him wishing bad things on Yost and directing someone to do it or it could have been someone who loves Melnyk and wanted to screw with yost or it could have been a random series of events but usually the simplest explanation is the right one.

I guess bordering on libel means that Yost insinuated that Melnyk had something to do with the hacker attack as opposed to straight out saying it. Had Yost said Melnyk's cronney's hacked him, that would certainly be libel, unless of course he had far more proof than an IP address, but instead he left that script between the lines for readers to infer.

Honestly, I can't see any reason for Yost to post that information other than to defame Melnyk, can you? Whether it mis-represents Melnyk is at issue; he never came out and said melnyk did it, but does anyone doubt that was his intended implication?

 

[BankStreetParade]

I think the first question is irrelevant - should be more like legit top 4. I think he fits that for most teams, and most teams are looking to add one.

I've said many times though, nobody needs this guy more than us.

It's of great relevance when the person I quoted said "where else are we going to find a Top pairing d-man that plays sound defence, and covers up for EK for under $5M?"

In the open market he'll easily get $5.5M.

He could be a top pairing on a lot of teams IMO.
Too many too name.

He doesn't have that rocket shot, but that doesn't mean he's not a top guy.

Like the poster above me noted. He's a number 1 here. And for $5M, he's worth it.

he's a #2/3 on any team in the league with the possible exception of nashville and maybe another im forgetting.
that's worth 5-6 million on the open market and the 5 year term he likely wants.
there would be 10-15 teams at least IMO that would make him that offer in the summer.

I highly, highly doubt that. But let's take a look, team by team, at whether Methot would be a top pairing guy worth $5.5+ million:

Anaheim: Vatanen, Fowler, Lindholm (1 year to big RFA raises for Vatanen and Lindholm)
Arizona: Yandle, Ekman-Larsson (could use Methot for second pairing, but no way in hell they give him same cap hit as OEL)
Boston: Hamilton, Krug, Chara, Seidenberg (Krug and Hamilton RFAs, no possible way they could afford to pay Methot that money to play on the second pair)
Buffalo: Myers, Zadorov, Gorges (would probably love to have Methot at that money and term, also the worst team in hockey)
Calgary: Giordano, Brodie, Wideman, Russell (not a chance in hell)
Carolina: Faulk, Sekera (if Sekera stays, Methot is at best a second pairing guy. If Sekera leaves, could see them having a lot of interest)
Chicago: Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya (no room on top pairing, might be marginal upgrade on Oduya. Have like $5 in cap space, pretty much)
Colorado: Barrie, Johnson, Stuart (would probably want someone who could provide more offense and a better PP presence, things Methot wouldn't bring to the table)
Columbus: Johnson, Wisniewski, Savard, Murray, Tyutin (almost certainly not)
Dallas: Goligoski, Demers, Klingberg, Daley (Dallas would probably have interest, not sure they would at $5.5 million though)
Detroit: Kronwall, Ericsson, Quincey (could use Methot but will almost certainly have no cap space)
Edmonton: Schultz, Petry (could certainly use Methot, will probably overpay to get him, second worst team in the NHL)
Florida: Ekblad, Campbell, Kulikov, Gudbranson, Mitchell (would be an upgrade to their second pairing, won't fit in to their pay structure at $5.5 million per)
LA: Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, McNabb, *Voynov* (with Voynov in the picture, there's no way LA pays Methot that much. With Voynov out of the picture, they might be inclined but have very, very little cap space to work with)
Minnesota: Suter, Scandella, Brodin, Spurgeon (probably no interest)
Montreal: Subban, Markov, Emelin (might have interest in him as a #4, doubt they'd be willing to pay $5.5 for him especially with their big RFA)
Nashville: Weber, Josi, Jones, Ellis (not a chance)
NJ: Zidlicky, Greene, Larsson (would rather use the money to pay a guy who can produce points, have more than enough two-way defensemen)
NYI: Boychuk, Leddy, Hamonic (interested, but so many RFAs and UFAs it's hard to predict where their blueline ends up)
NYR: Girardi, McDonagh, Staal, Klein (no way AND no cap space)
Ottawa: YES, but at the right price
Philadelphia: Streit, MacDonald, *Coburn**Schultz**Del Zotto* (really really hard to say with these guys, would have to assume they'd be interested, not sure about cap space)
Pittsburgh: Letang, Erhoff, Martin, Despres, Maatta (would have to assume they'd be interested if they can't keep Martin or Erhoff, then again they're in serious cap difficulty)
SJ: Burns, Vlasic, Braun (maybe a guy they'd want for their second pairing, but would they pay him $5.5 to be their #4?)
StL: Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Bouwmeester (almost certainly not, no cap space)
TB: Carle, Hedman, Garrison, Stralman (no chance, already spend too much on their D)
Toronto: Franson, Gardiner, Rielly, Phaneuf (good chance they'd have interest but almost certainly can't afford him without moving other players first)
Vancouver: Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Weber (would probably take him but would need to clear roster and cap space first)
Washington: Carlson, Green, Niskanen, Alzner, Orpik (probably no room on the roster, no cap space and if they lose Green they'll look to spend that money to replace his offense)
Winnipeg: Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, Trouba (definitely no)

So he'd be a top pairing guy in Buffalo, Carolina, Edmonton, New Jersey, Ottawa, Philadelphia, Toronto. What a coincidence: 7 of the 9 worst teams in the NHL.

He'd be a potential second pairing guy in Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Dallas, Florida, LA, Montreal, NYI, SJ, Vancouver. But how many of these teams would ever spend $5.5 million on a guy to play on their second pairing? And keep in mind several of these teams have very little cap space to work with.

So, let's look at some comparables in that cap hit range:

Seabrook 5.8
Burns 5.76
Enstrom 5.75
Markov 5.75
Niskanen 5.75
Keith 5.55
Ekman Larsson 5.5
Wisniewski 5.5
Myers 5.5
Orpik 5.5
Bouwmeester 5.4
Yandle 5.25
Streit 5.25
Wideman 5.25
Byfuglien 5.2
Bogosian 5.14
Edler 5
Martin 5
MacDonald 5
Faulk 4.83
Visnovsky 4.75
Kronwall 4.75
McDonagh 4.7
Bieksa 4.6
Goligoski 4.6
Garrison 4.6
Hamhuis 4.5
Nikitin 4.5
Tyutin 4.5
Coburn 4.5
Boyle 4.5
Stralman 4.5

I wouldn't take Methot over any of the guys who make $5+ million with the exception of Orpik (5.5) and MacDonald (5). Of the guys who make less than $5 million I would take Faulk, Kronwall, McDonagh, Goligoski, Hamhuis and Stralman over Methot. Tyutin and Coburn, when healthy, are easily a coin flip as to who's better, so I would say they are interchangeable as to who you would have on any given day. So out of all of the guys on the list (32) there's about 5 or 6 that I wouldn't take over Methot. That's a ridiculous number for a guy who wants to be in that pay range.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

what does that even mean it bordered on libel. it either was or it wasnt, and clearly it wasnt.
IIRC he related facts; ie. he wrote a pile of pieces critical and skeptical of his finances using publicly available information.
he then had his articles removed by someone else
Melnyk was critical of "the useless blogger" publicly
it happened again, and he posted screen shots of what he found which oddly showed a ukrainian IP address that seem to be associated with foundation which Melnyk heads up.

I believe those are all facts, certainly someone could have spoofed it etc who knows - i dont think Melnyk sat down at a computer and hacked him, i also doubt but dont completely discount the possibility of him wishing bad things on Yost and directing someone to do it or it could have been someone who loves Melnyk and wanted to screw with yost or it could have been a random series of events but usually the simplest explanation is the right one.

Bolded are not facts.

I could claim to be the Queen of England and post pictures of Elizabeth II sitting at a computer looking at the HF Boards, but it wouldn't be a fact.

 

[Johnny Hanson]

It's of great relevance when the person I quoted said "where else are we going to find a Top pairing d-man that plays sound defence, and covers up for EK for under $5M?"





I highly, highly doubt that. But let's take a look, team by team, at whether Methot would be a top pairing guy worth $5.5+ million:

Anaheim: Vatanen, Fowler, Lindholm (1 year to big RFA raises for Vatanen and Lindholm)
Arizona: Yandle, Ekman-Larsson (could use Methot for second pairing, but no way in hell they give him same cap hit as OEL)
Boston: Hamilton, Krug, Chara, Seidenberg (Krug and Hamilton RFAs, no possible way they could afford to pay Methot that money to play on the second pair)
Buffalo: Myers, Zadorov, Gorges (would probably love to have Methot at that money and term, also the worst team in hockey)
Calgary: Giordano, Brodie, Wideman, Russell (not a chance in hell)
Carolina: Faulk, Sekera (if Sekera stays, Methot is at best a second pairing guy. If Sekera leaves, could see them having a lot of interest)
Chicago: Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya (no room on top pairing, might be marginal upgrade on Oduya. Have like $5 in cap space, pretty much)
Colorado: Barrie, Johnson, Stuart (would probably want someone who could provide more offense and a better PP presence, things Methot wouldn't bring to the table)
Columbus: Johnson, Wisniewski, Savard, Murray, Tyutin (almost certainly not)
Dallas: Goligoski, Demers, Klingberg, Daley (Dallas would probably have interest, not sure they would at $5.5 million though)
Detroit: Kronwall, Ericsson, Quincey (could use Methot but will almost certainly have no cap space)
Edmonton: Schultz, Petry (could certainly use Methot, will probably overpay to get him, second worst team in the NHL)
Florida: Ekblad, Campbell, Kulikov, Gudbranson, Mitchell (would be an upgrade to their second pairing, won't fit in to their pay structure at $5.5 million per)
LA: Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, McNabb, *Voynov* (with Voynov in the picture, there's no way LA pays Methot that much. With Voynov out of the picture, they might be inclined but have very, very little cap space to work with)
Minnesota: Suter, Scandella, Brodin, Spurgeon (probably no interest)
Montreal: Subban, Markov, Emelin (might have interest in him as a #4, doubt they'd be willing to pay $5.5 for him especially with their big RFA)
Nashville: Weber, Josi, Jones, Ellis (not a chance)
NJ: Zidlicky, Greene, Larsson (would rather use the money to pay a guy who can produce points, have more than enough two-way defensemen)
NYI: Boychuk, Leddy, Hamonic (interested, but so many RFAs and UFAs it's hard to predict where their blueline ends up)
NYR: Girardi, McDonagh, Staal, Klein (no way AND no cap space)
Ottawa: YES, but at the right price
Philadelphia: Streit, MacDonald, *Coburn**Schultz**Del Zotto* (really really hard to say with these guys, would have to assume they'd be interested, not sure about cap space)
Pittsburgh: Letang, Erhoff, Martin, Despres, Maatta (would have to assume they'd be interested if they can't keep Martin or Erhoff, then again they're in serious cap difficulty)
SJ: Burns, Vlasic, Braun (maybe a guy they'd want for their second pairing, but would they pay him $5.5 to be their #4?)
StL: Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Bouwmeester (almost certainly not, no cap space)
TB: Carle, Hedman, Garrison, Stralman (no chance, already spend too much on their D)
Toronto: Franson, Gardiner, Rielly, Phaneuf (good chance they'd have interest but almost certainly can't afford him without moving other players first)
Vancouver: Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Weber (would probably take him but would need to clear roster and cap space first)
Washington: Carlson, Green, Niskanen, Alzner, Orpik (probably no room on the roster, no cap space and if they lose Green they'll look to spend that money to replace his offense)
Winnipeg: Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, Trouba (definitely no)

So he'd be a top pairing guy in Buffalo, Carolina, Edmonton, New Jersey, Ottawa, Philadelphia, Toronto. What a coincidence: 7 of the 9 worst teams in the NHL.

He'd be a potential second pairing guy in Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Dallas, Florida, LA, Montreal, NYI, SJ, Vancouver. But how many of these teams would ever spend $5.5 million on a guy to play on their second pairing? And keep in mind several of these teams have very little cap space to work with.

So, let's look at some comparables in that cap hit range:

Seabrook 5.8
Burns 5.76
Enstrom 5.75
Markov 5.75
Niskanen 5.75
Keith 5.55
Ekman Larsson 5.5
Wisniewski 5.5
Myers 5.5
Orpik 5.5
Bouwmeester 5.4
Yandle 5.25
Streit 5.25
Wideman 5.25
Byfuglien 5.2
Bogosian 5.14
Edler 5
Martin 5
MacDonald 5
Faulk 4.83
Visnovsky 4.75
Kronwall 4.75
McDonagh 4.7
Bieksa 4.6
Goligoski 4.6
Garrison 4.6
Hamhuis 4.5
Nikitin 4.5
Tyutin 4.5
Coburn 4.5
Boyle 4.5
Stralman 4.5

I wouldn't take Methot over any of the guys who make $5+ million with the exception of Orpik (5.5) and MacDonald (5). Of the guys who make less than $5 million I would take Faulk, Kronwall, McDonagh, Goligoski, Hamhuis and Stralman over Methot. Tyutin and Coburn, when healthy, are easily a coin flip as to who's better, so I would say they are interchangeable as to who you would have on any given day. So out of all of the guys on the list (32) there's about 5 or 6 that I wouldn't take over Methot. That's a ridiculous number for a guy who wants to be in that pay range.

We get it - you dont like methot. Fortunately, you are the minority. Methot is a better or fit for OUR TEAM then almost every player on your list.

Who cares where he would slot in on the other teams? Hea got great chemistry with EK, they are great friends and want to play with each other. Invest in our captain, give him what he wants.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

It would be unbelievably dumb for the PA to not use the escalator

I remain convinced that the only reason it keeps getting brought up is that because someone, somewhere noticed that if they didn't use it it would be disastrous and everybody ran with it

There's no way the PA doesn't use the escalator, the ramification of not doing so would run a lot of older plays out of the league

Why should the players artificially raise the cap only to have the money go into escrow next year and be taken back by the owners? How does that make sense?

The escalator clause does nothing to keep older player in the league IMO.

All the escalator does is allow the players to artificially push up the cap allowing for bigger contracts to be signed in that current year.

However the NHL sets the escrow number based on the risk the business can/will achieve the required growth. The risk is entirely on the players.

So I am not sure how anyone can think artificially raising the salary cap without sound growth factors to support it is a good idea for the players.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Bolded are not facts.

I could claim to be the Queen of England and post pictures of Elizabeth II sitting at a computer looking at the HF Boards, but it wouldn't be a fact.

Fine you can assume he's a liar, i dont.
that would be something of an odd elaborate ruse for a guy who doesnt seem to have ever done that either prior to that event nor after that event.
not to mention the aforementioned tip toeing around been sued if he was lying - quite a risk for a guy who is/was beginning a law career dont you think?

Im more inclined to think the guy that was barred from sitting on the board of publicly traded companies etc for lying in one form or another about a variety of things, who has also shown extreme vindictiveness in the past (feel free to search the court documents regarding the biovail debacle, i used to have them somewhere but not anymore. They are astonshing to read) is more likely if any to be the villain of the story.

Im sure Yost sat around thinking "im going to mostly frame Eugene Melnyk!, Ill never be found out!"

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

This thread is for discussing Marc Methot, not Travis Yost or Eugene Melnyk. Back on topic, please.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Why should the players artificially raise the cap only to have the money go into escrow next year and be taken back by the owners? How does that make sense?

The escalator clause does nothing to keep older player in the league IMO.

All the escalator does is allow the players to artificially push up the cap allowing for bigger contracts to be signed in that current year.

However the NHL sets the escrow number based on the risk the business can/will achieve the required growth. The risk is entirely on the players.

So I am not sure how anyone can think artificially raising the salary cap without sound growth factors to support it is a good idea for the players.

If the escalator doesn't get used the cap doesn't go up by as much as teams and the League had expected

That means a lot of fringe players (skill or age wise) will simply get pushed out because teams will all of sudden be caught in a huge crunch (especially teams already very close to the cap) and the bigger game players looking for their payday will be forced to take a cut in what they could have expected all in order to help the current players

If the escalator doesn't get used it will be a clear indication that the PA only cares about the superstars and can't be bothered with anyone else. Since it's going to be put to a vote the escalator will get used because that's what benefits the most.

If they are worried about escrow they should have never used the escalator in the first place. They did and now they'll have a very hard time justifying not using it considering it would be hurting a lot of people all to benefit a few who already managed to benefit from previous CBA structures.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

The question GMs will/should be asking, Is Methot a genuine top pairing D-man on any team in the league besides Ottawa?

IMO the answer is NO, so what is a 3-4 guy worth in today's economic world?

I believe a fair offer for Methot is $4.5M for 3 years.

If I was Murray I would be shopping Methot vigorously to establish the optimum return prior to considering adding dollars or term to above numbers.

In a sane world you are totally correct. In the UFA world, that offer doesn't even get you in the conversation.

I get what you are saying as you end with saying you'd prefer to deal him. But then what - go with the ragtag group we have? Or would we just spend more money on a different guy (also UFA) and hope they fit with EK?

 

[BankStreetParade]

We get it - you dont like methot. Fortunately, you are the minority. Methot is a better or fit for OUR TEAM then almost every player on your list.

Who cares where he would slot in on the other teams? Hea got great chemistry with EK, they are great friends and want to play with each other. Invest in our captain, give him what he wants.

1. I actually like Methot. I'm just not interested in the "give him what he wants" group think mentality.
2. I don't know how you could possibly know that Methot is a better fit for our team than almost every player on my list. That's the most ridiculous statement I've read in here lately. That list has 32 guys on it and Methot would probably come in somewhere around 24-27 on that list.
3. It matters where he slots in because that's how you figure out how to pay players - by using comparables. Also, I was responding to the guys who were saying Methot would be a top pairing defenseman on every team in the NHL minus a few.
4. Our captain wants to win. Does he win by having a guy who would be a top pairing guy on 7 of the 9 worst teams in the NHL as his running mate? Go ahead and take a guess. And if you can't figure it out, go back and look at that list and see what 7 of the 9 worst teams in the NHL all have in common.

 

[Wondercarrot]

It's of great relevance when the person I quoted said "where else are we going to find a Top pairing d-man that plays sound defence, and covers up for EK for under $5M?"





I highly, highly doubt that. But let's take a look, team by team, at whether Methot would be a top pairing guy worth $5.5+ million:

Anaheim: Vatanen, Fowler, Lindholm (1 year to big RFA raises for Vatanen and Lindholm)
Arizona: Yandle, Ekman-Larsson (could use Methot for second pairing, but no way in hell they give him same cap hit as OEL)
Boston: Hamilton, Krug, Chara, Seidenberg (Krug and Hamilton RFAs, no possible way they could afford to pay Methot that money to play on the second pair)
Buffalo: Myers, Zadorov, Gorges (would probably love to have Methot at that money and term, also the worst team in hockey)
Calgary: Giordano, Brodie, Wideman, Russell (not a chance in hell)
Carolina: Faulk, Sekera (if Sekera stays, Methot is at best a second pairing guy. If Sekera leaves, could see them having a lot of interest)
Chicago: Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Oduya (no room on top pairing, might be marginal upgrade on Oduya. Have like $5 in cap space, pretty much)
Colorado: Barrie, Johnson, Stuart (would probably want someone who could provide more offense and a better PP presence, things Methot wouldn't bring to the table)
Columbus: Johnson, Wisniewski, Savard, Murray, Tyutin (almost certainly not)
Dallas: Goligoski, Demers, Klingberg, Daley (Dallas would probably have interest, not sure they would at $5.5 million though)
Detroit: Kronwall, Ericsson, Quincey (could use Methot but will almost certainly have no cap space)
Edmonton: Schultz, Petry (could certainly use Methot, will probably overpay to get him, second worst team in the NHL)
Florida: Ekblad, Campbell, Kulikov, Gudbranson, Mitchell (would be an upgrade to their second pairing, won't fit in to their pay structure at $5.5 million per)
LA: Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, McNabb, *Voynov* (with Voynov in the picture, there's no way LA pays Methot that much. With Voynov out of the picture, they might be inclined but have very, very little cap space to work with)
Minnesota: Suter, Scandella, Brodin, Spurgeon (probably no interest)
Montreal: Subban, Markov, Emelin (might have interest in him as a #4, doubt they'd be willing to pay $5.5 for him especially with their big RFA)
Nashville: Weber, Josi, Jones, Ellis (not a chance)
NJ: Zidlicky, Greene, Larsson (would rather use the money to pay a guy who can produce points, have more than enough two-way defensemen)
NYI: Boychuk, Leddy, Hamonic (interested, but so many RFAs and UFAs it's hard to predict where their blueline ends up)
NYR: Girardi, McDonagh, Staal, Klein (no way AND no cap space)
Ottawa: YES, but at the right price
Philadelphia: Streit, MacDonald, *Coburn**Schultz**Del Zotto* (really really hard to say with these guys, would have to assume they'd be interested, not sure about cap space)
Pittsburgh: Letang, Erhoff, Martin, Despres, Maatta (would have to assume they'd be interested if they can't keep Martin or Erhoff, then again they're in serious cap difficulty)
SJ: Burns, Vlasic, Braun (maybe a guy they'd want for their second pairing, but would they pay him $5.5 to be their #4?)
StL: Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Bouwmeester (almost certainly not, no cap space)
TB: Carle, Hedman, Garrison, Stralman (no chance, already spend too much on their D)
Toronto: Franson, Gardiner, Rielly, Phaneuf (good chance they'd have interest but almost certainly can't afford him without moving other players first)
Vancouver: Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Weber (would probably take him but would need to clear roster and cap space first)
Washington: Carlson, Green, Niskanen, Alzner, Orpik (probably no room on the roster, no cap space and if they lose Green they'll look to spend that money to replace his offense)
Winnipeg: Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, Trouba (definitely no)

So he'd be a top pairing guy in Buffalo, Carolina, Edmonton, New Jersey, Ottawa, Philadelphia, Toronto. What a coincidence: 7 of the 9 worst teams in the NHL.

He'd be a potential second pairing guy in Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Dallas, Florida, LA, Montreal, NYI, SJ, Vancouver. But how many of these teams would ever spend $5.5 million on a guy to play on their second pairing? And keep in mind several of these teams have very little cap space to work with.

So im not going through that entire list, suffice it to say i disagree with many of your assessments for a few reasons.
1. How many of those are LS defencemen?
2. None of those players (the good ones anyway) are available.
3. You used cap space as a qualifier when its irrelevant. If there is more than one team bidding then he will get paid.

This isnt an issue of who has the cap space, the question was is he a #2/3 defenceman or comparable to that on most teams in the league? it only requires 2 teams to want him and its obvious from the market that it will pay at least 5 million/year for a player of his caliber.
Bob Mackenzie, a much smarter hockey man than me thinks this is the case. Team Canada wanted to keep him on their radar, but sure he's 'potentially' a top 4 guy lol.

So, let's look at some comparables in that cap hit range:

More importantly lets look at comparables that signed their deals as UFA and how long ago the deal were signed...im not going to bother, i think you get the point
and i take i him ahead of roughly 12-15 guys on that list 6 of them guys over $5 million.

Seabrook 5.8
Burns 5.76
Enstrom 5.75
Markov 5.75
Niskanen 5.75
Keith 5.55
Ekman Larsson 5.5
Wisniewski 5.5
Myers 5.5
Orpik 5.5
Bouwmeester 5.4
Yandle 5.25
Streit 5.25
Wideman 5.25
Byfuglien 5.2
Bogosian 5.14
Edler 5
Martin 5
MacDonald 5
Faulk 4.83
Visnovsky 4.75
Kronwall 4.75
McDonagh 4.7
Bieksa 4.6
Goligoski 4.6
Garrison 4.6
Hamhuis 4.5
Nikitin 4.5
Tyutin 4.5
Coburn 4.5
Boyle 4.5
Stralman 4.5

I wouldn't take Methot over any of the guys who make $5+ million with the exception of Orpik (5.5) and MacDonald (5). Of the guys who make less than $5 million I would take Faulk, Kronwall, McDonagh, Goligoski, Hamhuis and Stralman over Methot. Tyutin and Coburn, when healthy, are easily a coin flip as to who's better, so I would say they are interchangeable as to who you would have on any given day. So out of all of the guys on the list (32) there's about 5 or 6 that I wouldn't take over Methot. That's a ridiculous number for a guy who wants to be in that pay range.

comments bolded above...

 

[Wondercarrot]

1. I actually like Methot. I'm just not interested in the "give him what he wants" group think mentality.
group think? you know consensus isnt wrong be definition right?
2. I don't know how you could possibly know that Methot is a better fit for our team than almost every player on my list. That's the most ridiculous statement I've read in here lately. That list has 32 guys on it and Methot would probably come in somewhere around 24-27 on that list.
he is a better fit, if for the simple fact THEY ARE ALL SIGNED TO OTHER TEAMS. other than that some of them are a small offensive players, some are defensive only guys,Methot is a big physical very good skating player who moves the puck very effectively both skating and passing. a very good 200 foot player.
3. It matters where he slots in because that's how you figure out how to pay players - by using comparables. Also, I was responding to the guys who were saying Methot would be a top pairing defenseman on every team in the NHL minus a few.
you are right, comparables do matter, so why are you comparing UFAs, RFAs, signed over deals stretching up to 4 or 5 years apart. The point also stands that he is the quality of player that most other teams have in their #2/#3 slot.
4. Our captain wants to win. Does he win by having a guy who would be a top pairing guy on 7 of the 9 worst teams in the NHL as his running mate? Go ahead and take a guess. And if you can't figure it out, go back and look at that list and see what 7 of the 9 worst teams in the NHL all have in common.
does he win by not having a #2/#3 defenceman at all? or are we going to wave a magic wand and find a UFA top paring dman to play for us starting next year on a $5-6 million per year contract? Methot is valuable to this team (or any team for that matter) regardless if plays with Karlsson or not, not only do we need to sign Methot, we could really use another Methot. Id like to know how you plan on building the defence if we dont resign methot at the going rate of around $5 million.
So you've got:
? Karlsson
Cowen Ceci
Boro Gryba

please re-arrange the deck chairs or whatever it is you have in mind.

bolded above.