Marc Methot II: Wheel of Fortune Edition

[Micklebot]

comments bolded above...

Sekera
Stait
Markov
Yandle
OEL
Tyuitin
Keith
Edler
Suter
Hedman
Giordano(not sure which one plays LD)
Brodie(not sure which one plays LD)
McDonagh
Phaneuf
Staal
Kronwall
Hjalmarsson
Chara
Enstrom
Erhoff

There's 20 LD I think are ahead of him. There are some more debatable ones that could be added, and maybe one or two there that might be up for debate too.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

If the escalator doesn't get used the cap doesn't go up by as much as teams and the League had expected

That means a lot of fringe players (skill or age wise) will simply get pushed out because teams will all of sudden be caught in a huge crunch (especially teams already very close to the cap) and the bigger game players looking for their payday will be forced to take a cut in what they could have expected all in order to help the current players

If the escalator doesn't get used it will be a clear indication that the PA only cares about the superstars and can't be bothered with anyone else. Since it's going to be put to a vote the escalator will get used because that's what benefits the most.

If they are worried about escrow they should have never used the escalator in the first place. They did and now they'll have a very hard time justifying not using it considering it would be hurting a lot of people all to benefit a few who already managed to benefit from previous CBA structures.

I don't agree the players never should have used the escalator clause simply because in the past they have been sufficient growth indicators to support its use.

However when the CDN$ drops it affects a significant portion of the NHL revenues, including the $5B TV contract paid in Canadian currency. Therefore to bet the revenue will grow by 5% when faced with this reality makes little sense IMO.

In terms of fringe or older players losing their jobs because the cap doesn't rise, this has nothing to do with cap level, everything to do with the effects of the cap system.

IMO there should have been more separation in salaries before now, however the constantly rising cap has allowed NHL GMs to be less than astute managers IMO.

IMO exercising the clause is nothing more than the NHLPA allowing upcoming UFA/RFAs to negotiate larger contracts than the projected revenue can support, thus passing on the incremental cost of those contracts to the balance of the NHLPA membership in escrow fees.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

comments bolded above

 

[Holdurbreathe]

In a sane world you are totally correct. In the UFA world, that offer doesn't even get you in the conversation.

I get what you are saying as you end with saying you'd prefer to deal him. But then what - go with the ragtag group we have? Or would we just spend more money on a different guy (also UFA) and hope they fit with EK?

I didn't say I preferred to deal him, anywhere!!!

What I said was, I would want to know exactly what I could get in a return for Methot before offering more than $4.5 for 3 years.

If the return was substantial, for example Buffalo or Edmonton offered thier first round pick, then I would likely trade him.

However if the return was average, then I would be more inclined to some movement in my offer.

While I fully realize UFAs have generally been overpaid, I do believe the insanity is overdue for a correction and this summer may bring the first hints of good management.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

I didn't say I preferred to deal him, anywhere!!!

What I said was, I would want to know exactly what I could get in a return for Methot before offering more than $4.5 for 3 years.

If the return was substantial, for example Buffalo or Edmonton offered thier first round pick, then I would likely trade him.

However if the return was average, then I would be more inclined to some movement in my offer.

While I fully realize UFAs have generally been overpaid, I do believe the insanity is overdue for a correction and this summer may bring the first hints of good management.

I guess by 'shopping vigorously' you didn't mean trade - my bad.

$4.5M for 3 years, in the context of the salaries someone posted above, its the right salary. But unfortunately he's a UFA, so if your max offer is $4.5x3, it has a 0% chance of being accepted.

You can't expect Methot to do something against his best interest. This might be his only chance ever to cash in long term and you can't blame him for it. 3 years just isn't enough. So if that's the offer, he's getting traded at the deadline.

And I hope you are right about the correction, but I don't see it happening.
The whole system is broken - supply is very low, and also GMs have no incentive not to sign big deals to get guys because most are not around long enough to live with the consequences. Some are around but we've seen lots of examples of buyouts under the same GM that signed the deal.

 

[Backpass]

Can't believe to hear that some people are complaining about Methot. Very seldom have I seen two Dmen that can bring more to each other better then what Karlsson and Methot can. If we remember, before Methot joined the line-up we were complaining about Karlsson defensive mistakes, but since they have became one of the best pair of Dmen in the NHL.

Let's take it this way, if Karlsson was identified as the engine of this team, not having Methot to play with him would be like running your engine without any oil.

 

[Micklebot]

Can't believe to hear that some people are complaining about Methot. Very seldom have I seen two Dmen that can bring more to each other better then what Karlsson and Methot can. If we remember, before Methot joined the line-up we were complaining about Karlsson defensive mistakes, but since they have became one of the best pair of Dmen in the NHL.

Let's take it this way, if Karlsson was identified as the engine of this team, not having Methot to play with him would be like running your engine without any oil.

To be fair, Karlsson and Kuba looked pretty darn good a few years ago together too. The problem is, we've seen Karlsson with two sets of partners: Capable 2/3 level players in Methot and Kuba, and 4-7 level guys in Cowen, Boro, Wier, Sutton, and Phillips.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Can't believe to hear that some people are complaining about Methot. Very seldom have I seen two Dmen that can bring more to each other better then what Karlsson and Methot can. If we remember, before Methot joined the line-up we were complaining about Karlsson defensive mistakes, but since they have became one of the best pair of Dmen in the NHL.

Let's take it this way, if Karlsson was identified as the engine of this team, not having Methot to play with him would be like running your engine without any oil.

Who's complaining about Methot?

The guy wants 5.5 per year and the Senators are not interested, see Sekera in Carolina for a similar situations

It's not that he isn't any good, it's that it's too much

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I think 5.5 is a completely fair amount for a top pairing D on this team going into his UFA years. If he doesn't sign I'm going to be highly disappointed.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I think 5.5 is a completely fair amount for a top pairing D on this team going into his UFA years. If he doesn't sign I'm going to be highly disappointed.

It sounds like smaller budget teams don't have the appetite for such a contract unfortunately

 

[Sens92]

It sounds like smaller budget teams don't have the appetite for such a contract unfortunately

Why must Sens fans wallow in their misery all the time? Some of us sound like 15 year old teenagers who hate their lives.

Methot was offered 5 million per year earlier on in the year and his camp rejected the offer. The conflict is more so the term, not the dollars - and why shouldn't it be? Methot had chronic back problems earlier on in the year so offering millions of dollars over the span of a half a decade is no joke. Let's simmer down and trust the process.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

See: Carolina and Sekera

 

[Backpass]

Who's complaining about Methot?

The guy wants 5.5 per year and the Senators are not interested, see Sekera in Carolina for a similar situations

It's not that he isn't any good, it's that it's too much

I believe that last offer that was made from the Methot camp was 5 millions for a long term contract where Murray offered 4.6 for short term. I don't know why Murray doesn't sign him to a five year deal with a 5 or 5.2 M per year average.

 

[SensAreSoClose]

I believe that last offer that was made from the Methot camp was 5 millions for a long term contract where Murray offered 4.6 for short term. I don't know why Murray doesn't sign him to a five year deal with a 5 or 5.2 M per year average.

Then there is your problem.

 

[guyzeur]

I think 5.5 is a completely fair amount for a top pairing D on this team going into his UFA years. If he doesn't sign I'm going to be highly disappointed.

If he signs for 5 years and keep missing 20-25 + games each year because of back problems, would you complain about it then?

Of course it's unknown how his health will be in the future but being a physical D sure doesn't help his back.

 

[jbeck5]

I think 5.5 is a completely fair amount for a top pairing D on this team going into his UFA years. If he doesn't sign I'm going to be highly disappointed.

Ideally i would want methot to be our third defenseman with a #2 who's good at both ends of the ice(meaning offense too), but you're right. People need to realize that the cap is a lot higher so players are getting paid a lot more.

What you thought players deserved when the cap was at 39 million, almost double it and you have todays value.

3 million in 05-06=5.5 million now.

 

[Rand0m]

From talking to people that know Marc well, I'll be shocked if he re-signs with Ottawa. It would necessitate some overpayment. I even heard a comment about a "cheap f-ing owner" when talking about current negotiations.

I'm also not confident his injury problems are truly over. From talking to the same people earlier this year it felt like this was turning into a chronic problem and it was more about dealing with the pain than waiting for it to fully heal.

So basically, seems like Methot doesn't really want to stay and the Sens are hesitant to sign a physical player with injury concerns to a long term contract.

 

[Lehner]

One side wants me to sign him only cause it made Karlsson awesome again, the other side of me is saying let him go because I dont think he can sustain this good a d-man for a lot longer.

I think the safe thing to do is let him go to tell u the truth, he isnt a difference maker imo.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

One side wants me to sign him only cause it made Karlsson awesome again, the other side of me is saying let him go because I dont think he can sustain this good a d-man for a lot longer.

I think the safe thing to do is let him go to tell u the truth, he isnt a difference maker imo.

If the back problems are indeed chronic, then yes, saying farewell feels like the right choice. Too bad though.....finding a 2/3 D is hellishly difficult, and we simply are too inexperienced already on the blueline to promote another youngster.

But man, does this ever suck. Either way we're probably screwed.

 

[The Lewler]

Bye Bye Marc.

No inside knowledge, my feel is just if this deal hasn't closed quickly this time around, it's not closing.

 

[jason2020]

From talking to people that know Marc well, I'll be shocked if he re-signs with Ottawa. It would necessitate some overpayment. I even heard a comment about a "cheap f-ing owner" when talking about current negotiations.

I'm also not confident his injury problems are truly over. From talking to the same people earlier this year it felt like this was turning into a chronic problem and it was more about dealing with the pain than waiting for it to fully heal.

So basically, seems like Methot doesn't really want to stay and the Sens are hesitant to sign a physical player with injury concerns to a long term contract.

If he does try and go the free agent route I don't think he will get the term he wants might be less then what the Sens are offering but maybe a bit more money.

 

[Micklebot]

If I was Murray, and Methot wasn't going to sign this offer, I'd tell methot we're going to trade him, but get an idea of where he'd prefer and try and try to make it work. Then tell him that if he makes it to UFA, he should let us what the offer he's getting and we'll put something we feel is fair and competitive together, and he can make his choice. Not sure if that's tampering, but that would be ideal.

 

[BonkTastic]

If I was Murray, and Methot wasn't going to sign this offer, I'd tell methot we're going to trade him, but get an idea of where he'd prefer and try and try to make it work. Then tell him that if he makes it to UFA, he should let us what the offer he's getting and we'll put something we feel is fair and competitive together, and he can make his choice. Not sure if that's tampering, but that would be ideal.

IIRC, any negotiations that happen with a player and the team that currently owns his rights isn't tampering. It might be something else, but it's not tampering.

It would be tampering if we tried to discuss this with him AFTER trading him.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

If he signs for 5 years and keep missing 20-25 + games each year because of back problems, would you complain about it then?

Of course it's unknown how his health will be in the future but being a physical D sure doesn't help his back.

Maybe but I would still take the risk. Our D is atrocious without Methot and if we let him go it's just another big step backwards in becoming a playoff team.

Melnyks promise of a hockey Mecca isn't looking too good with a Methotless D corps. Hopefully we have a backup plan.

 

[jason2020]

If I was Murray, and Methot wasn't going to sign this offer, I'd tell methot we're going to trade him, but get an idea of where he'd prefer and try and try to make it work. Then tell him that if he makes it to UFA, he should let us what the offer he's getting and we'll put something we feel is fair and competitive together, and he can make his choice. Not sure if that's tampering, but that would be ideal.

If the team did offer him a 5 year deal like this 9/9/3/3/1 if Mark would go for that he gets the money and term its just big time front loaded.