Marc Bergevin: Search for Redemption

[groovejuice]

Man, I've never read a post full of assumptions and then proceeding as if those assumptions are 100% true.

Where did you get this idea that "someone" told MB to relinquish some control and hand it over to Timmins? And to clear up one fact Timmins was promoted to assistant GM not this past summer but the previous one. So does he get a share of the responsibility for last year's disaster?

When MB promoted Timmins in 2017 (and not 2018) he said it was so Timmins could oversee every facet of prospect recruitment and development. Did he have a say in the pick ups this year? Sure. But he didn't go out and scout them and tell MB you need to get Domi or Armia or Suzuki or Tatar. I'm pretty sure that was someone else in the organization - maybe Mellanby, maybe a pro scout - lol. And then the management staff sat down and Timmins gave his opinion on the player like everyone else in the room did..

There was actually a quote in the offseason from Bergevin himself where he intimated that he no longer had full control. Can't find it yet, but there's a quote or a bit of video on here somewhere. It was right after Meddleson himself said there needed to be changes.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There was actually a quote in the offseason from Bergevin himself where he intimated that he no longer had full control. Can't find it yet, but there's a quote or a bit of video on here somewhere. It was right after Meddleson himself said there needed to be changes.

Lets hope Molson has hired and advisor to help him out. Someone nobody knows is working with him. Every GM needs a president who knows how to run a business and also hockey operations. Molson is not qualified to be President IMO. He needs help in the hockey operations aspect of things.

 

[Habs Icing]

There was actually a quote in the offseason from Bergevin himself where he intimated that he no longer had full control. Can't find it yet, but there's a quote or a bit of video on here somewhere. It was right after Meddleson himself said there needed to be changes.

C'mon, man, be reasonable. Timmins has a full plate - not as appetizing as one of your plates - with managing the prospect scouting and development and he is going to step out and start taking control of pro scouting and recruitment. Naw that's not how modern management works.

If there is any validity to this conspiracy theory, it wouldn't be Timmins. More like Mellanby.

 

[groovejuice]

Lets hope Molson has hired and advisor to help him out. Someone nobody knows is working with him. Every GM needs a president who knows how to run a business and also hockey operations. Molson is not qualified to be President IMO. He needs help in the hockey operations aspect of things.

You're not alone in wanting a genuine, experienced hockey person to be placed in the President's role. It's well overdue.

 

[groovejuice]

C'mon, man, be reasonable. Timmins has a full plate - not as appetizing as one of your plates - with managing the prospect scouting and development and he is going to step out and start taking control of pro scouting and recruitment. Naw that's not how modern management works.

If there is any validity to this conspiracy theory, it wouldn't be Timmins. More like Mellanby.

That's why I didn't put a name to it. It may very well be someone who was not previously in management here.

I can't be the only person who recalls this. Hopefully someone has access the to quote will find it for us.

 

[Habs Icing]

You're not alone in wanting a genuine, experienced hockey person to be placed in the President's role. It's well overdue.

Be careful what you wish for?

I can see MB being kicked upstairs to president of hockey operations. He still has what? 4, 5 years left on his contract.

 

[ColinO]

I'm pretty sure if @Kriss E wanted to spread gossip, he'd churn out something more compelling than a player not saying "Thank you".

The point is we think we've got these young guys nailed as heroes or villains based on soundbites, when the truth is we know nothing about their real personalities or activities. Most of us wouldn't appreciate someone claiming to know us because of what we said into a mic or a snapshot of us at a bar.

Fair enough. Perhaps I overreacted. Sorry Kriss E. I should have made my comment a more general condemnation of gossiping about off-ice stuff. It's a pet peeve that I just can't stand and that was the moment that I chose to comment.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Man, I've never read a post full of assumptions and then proceeding as if those assumptions are 100% true.

Where did you get this idea that "someone" told MB to relinquish some control and hand it over to Timmins? And to clear up one fact Timmins was promoted to assistant GM not this past summer but the previous one. So does he get a share of the responsibility for last year's disaster?

Here's a news item stating as much:
#Habs hire Francis Bouillon, announce shake up of player development personnel

When MB promoted Timmins in 2017 (and not 2018) he said it was so Timmins could oversee every facet of prospect recruitment and development. Did he have a say in the pick ups this year? Sure. But he didn't go out and scout them and tell MB you need to get Domi or Armia or Suzuki or Tatar. I'm pretty sure that was someone else in the organization - maybe Mellanby, maybe a pro scout - lol. And then the management staff sat down and Timmins gave his opinion on the player like everyone else in the room did..

Bergevin had the last say over the draft in years past. Now is different as quoted by both Molson and Bergevin. Don't need to be psychic to understand that Molson wasn't too happy with how things turned out and asked Bergevin to delegate some responsabilities.

Also, you should re-think your arguments before posting them. Timmins was promoted in the wake of the UFA 17' debacle, around mid-July, not before.

 

[yianik]

All GM's make mistakes. But when you trade players like Subban, Hall, Seguin, Karlsson, you deserve the heat you get. Players are traded for different reasons but Subban was targeted after the 2015/2016 horrible season where we once again had many key injuries.

I remember saying this back when there were Subban rumors... "Come on man... Subban is not being shopped/traded". Boy was I ever shocked! Weber is a darn good defenseman but why? Why trade a RD for a RD who is 4 years older? Bergevin deserves every bit of criticism for this. This will be talked about over and over for decades.

I expected it. I am not clairvoyant, but being a Habs fan for a while , when you pick up whispers from the shadows, as in media reporting on character issues about a player, or the classic " is there a locker room cancer ? " stuff, it signals the team is looking at trading a guy. I have no question the Habs feed the press this stuff, very Soviet Union like, to generate some negativity about a player. Real weird stuff, as if they really want/need the media and fan support about moving a guy. So with PK I did not at all buy MBs I was not trying to move PK, its just that I answered the phone one day and Poile made an offer that could not be refused. Yeah, right.

 

[groovejuice]

Be careful what you wish for?

I can see MB being kicked upstairs to president of hockey operations. He still has what? 4, 5 years left on his contract.

I don't see Molson making that mistake. He already gave Bergevin a job for which he had no experience. It would be extraordinary if he did it again.

 

[Habs Icing]

Bergevin had the last say over the draft in years past. Now is different as quoted by both Molson and Bergevin. Don't need to be psychic to understand that Molson wasn't too happy with how things turned out and asked Bergevin to delegate some responsabilities.

Also, you should re-think your arguments before posting them. Timmins was promoted in the wake of the UFA 17' debacle, around mid-July, not before.

What are you talking about? You claimed he was promoted this summer. I said it was last summer. I made no announcement about pre or post UFA. I just said he was assistant GM for last year's debacle of a season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

C'mon, man, be reasonable. Timmins has a full plate - not as appetizing as one of your plates - with managing the prospect scouting and development and he is going to step out and start taking control of pro scouting and recruitment. Naw that's not how modern management works.

If there is any validity to this conspiracy theory, it wouldn't be Timmins. More like Mellanby.

First of all, it's not about some conspiracy theory. Just the fact you paint it as such makes you extremely childish.

All the players we got in trades were all on Timmins's draft lists. He knows them as well as Mellanby. If they're working as a commitee or however doesn't matter. It is just a fact that management seems to have turned around ever since Timmins has been promoted. Doesn't mean that Mellanby doesn't have an input. For Timmins to supercede Bergevin over drafting means Bergevin was asked to relinquish some aspects of his management. It's not conspiracy theorym, it's simply trying to extrapolate the dynamics of management inside the Habs. I'm not saying it's the ultimate truth, just saying what I see.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What are you talking about? You claimed he was promoted this summer. I said it was last summer. I made no announcement about pre or post UFA. I just said he was assistant GM for last year's debacle of a season.

I never claimed he was promoted this summer.

Retract yourself before you stick your foot into your mouth.

You tried to put part of the blame on Timmins, yet he was hired/promoted after Bergevin's failings. You have a hard time following logic.

 

[yianik]

Man, I've never read a post full of assumptions and then proceeding as if those assumptions are 100% true.

Where did you get this idea that "someone" told MB to relinquish some control and hand it over to Timmins? And to clear up one fact Timmins was promoted to assistant GM not this past summer but the previous one. So does he get a share of the responsibility for last year's disaster?

Here's a news item stating as much:
#Habs hire Francis Bouillon, announce shake up of player development personnel

When MB promoted Timmins in 2017 (and not 2018) he said it was so Timmins could oversee every facet of prospect recruitment and development. Did he have a say in the pick ups this year? Sure. But he didn't go out and scout them and tell MB you need to get Domi or Armia or Suzuki or Tatar. I'm pretty sure that was someone else in the organization - maybe Mellanby, maybe a pro scout - lol. And then the management staff sat down and Timmins gave his opinion on the player like everyone else in the room did..

I am thinking that TT had less input on Tatar and Armia as they have been in the league for a while, and more on the younger guys like Domi and especially Suzuki.

 

[Habs Icing]

I never claimed he was promoted this summer.

Retract yourself before you stick your foot into your mouth.

You tried to put part of the blame on Timmins, yet he was hired after Bergevin's failings. You have a hard time following logic.

Do I have to quote you to remind you what you said

Don't you find it odd that Bergevin's good decisions coincide with Timmins's first year as AGM?

Timmins first year was last year. Not this year. Last year when Timmins was assistant GM the team finished 27th.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Do I have to quote you to remind you what you said



Timmins first year was last year. Not this year.

He's been on the job for 16 months. That's a little more than a year. THAT's what I meant.

You extrapolate what I say and twist it to your desire.

Isn't 16 months close to a year? yes or no?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This is getting tiresome.

All those trades happened in Timmins's first 12 months as AGM. That's Timmins first year, he was hired mid-july 2017. Mid July-2018, the team was mostly made-up except for the Pac trade

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'd also argue that ever since summer 17, Julien has probably a bigger say too.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

I expected it. I am not clairvoyant, but being a Habs fan for a while , when you pick up whispers from the shadows, as in media reporting on character issues about a player, or the classic " is there a locker room cancer ? " stuff, it signals the team is looking at trading a guy. I have no question the Habs feed the press this stuff, very Soviet Union like, to generate some negativity about a player. Real weird stuff, as if they really want/need the media and fan support about moving a guy. So with PK I did not at all buy MBs I was not trying to move PK, its just that I answered the phone one day and Poile made an offer that could not be refused. Yeah, right.

I have always found P.K Subban to be rather vanilla for an athlete.
He was a pest on the ice, but hey Chris Pronger was 10 times worse but it's the fans of opposing teams that should be laying on the hate, not fans of the player's own team or the player's GM. Bergevin simply wanted to return to Walmart his hockey player and needed a way to do it that didn't make him look stupid.

Bergevin was clearly a rookie during "the bridge deal" negotiations. You NEVER let a 22 year old defenseman "prove it". Why? Because they will and then you're paying full price and then some. 22 years of age is exactly the age in which--let's draw an insect analogy--the defenseman sheds his last exoskelton as a nymph and becomes a full-fledged adult cockroach. Without Subban's production to lampoon anymore(lol Michael Del Zotto), character assassination on one the most typically vanilla athletes had to ensue.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Kriss E]

I know, i'm a pretty consistant guy

Was more for ''l'ensemble de ton oeuvre''

You had better comebacks...
It's okay, we all know you have no proof. We can move on.

 

[Kriss E]

I do admit the Pro vs Anti Bergevin line in the sand division has diminished recently. But to pretend it was not there? I don't agree.

Again...what division? Some wanted Bergevin fired because he proved himself to be an imbecile. Others, like you, kept saying they needed more time to see it, the majority of that group finally came around.
I don't call this a division. We've all always been Habs fans.

 

[Belial]

There was actually a quote in the offseason from Bergevin himself where he intimated that he no longer had full control. Can't find it yet, but there's a quote or a bit of video on here somewhere. It was right after Meddleson himself said there needed to be changes.

That's why I didn't put a name to it. It may very well be someone who was not previously in management here.

I can't be the only person who recalls this. Hopefully someone has access the to quote will find it for us.

Can't wait for that juicy inexistent quote...

 

[groovejuice]

Can't wait for that juicy inexistent quote...

I hope you're not implying I fabricated this. That's beneath you. Far beneath you.

 

[BLONG7]

I hope you're not implying I fabricated this. That's beneath you. Far beneath you.

There was a press conf or interview, where he seemed to lean towards, admitting there was something going on, where he was not in total control....can't remember the exacts............that being said, just look at his body language, and his lack of arrogance recently.....personally for me, I think Timmins has more say, and DD and Bouchard being around has made things more interesting.