Marc Bergevin: Search for Redemption

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[Frank Drebin]

Where is the double-standard when the criticism on those incoming players is solely based on the players being evaluated on their own merits, independently of the players they were acquired for? By the same token, we can and have recognized the positive contributions of those who have provided them, again some of us have been able to do so without having to crap on an outgoing player but simply on the merits of a particular player's performance.

Now, if a thread is about comparing players involved in a given trade or if the thread is about a GM's competence or trading acumen, that's a whole other story as the thread subject invites a wider approach.

They're not being judged strictly on their own shortcomings and I think you know that.

Weber is compared to a do everything number one dman because that's what he was traded for. Shaw represents losing debrincat Girard and Eller, and drouin can never live up to being traded for Andrei Markov 2.0.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think there is resentment to these players because what was given up for them.

Imagine if Paul Byron was acquired in a trade for galchenyuk - do you think he'd be as loved as he is right now? Rhetorical question of course.

 

[Runner77]

It's true. But it's also true that posters were calling that trade an overwhelming win for the Habs after a handful of games.

This place is not lacking hot takes.

 

[Runner77]

They're not being judged strictly on their own shortcomings and I think you know that.

Weber is compared to a do everything number one dman because that's what he was traded for. Shaw represents losing debrincat Girard and Eller, and drouin can never live up to being traded for Andrei Markov 2.0.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think there is resentment to these players because what was given up for them.

Imagine if Paul Byron was acquired in a trade for galchenyuk - do you think he'd be as loved as he is right now? Rhetorical question of course.

Weber has always been a no. 1D, regardless of who he was traded for.

Shaw can't possibly be worth all of DeBrincat, Girard AND Eller. Eller begat two other picks in a separate transaction. It's absurd to lump all of these together -- and I'm not saying you're the one doing that, you're probably just quoting someone who did.

As for Drouin, well ... he has a reputation that has been following him. It's always the same story, lots of talent but not matched by an equal measure of effort. Just this week, a pundit from RDS on Marinaro's show, claimed that he had consulted several individuals around the NHL who told him that Drouin is perceived as being selfish and soft. Drouin has done nothing to shake that off last year. He's just unable to provide a consistent output -- even when he's not on the scoresheet, he manages to either make himself invisible or to bumble plays at a critical juncture in the game.

Byron for Galchenyuk? Now, that's a neat exaggeration to prove a point. Why not the other way around -- say Shaw for Panarin, huh?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Why not the other way around -- say Shaw for Panarin, huh?

We would collectively mock cbj and shaw.

 

[Belial]

 

[OldCraig71]

Will Marc Bergevin find redemption on Youtube.

 

[Belial]

Will Marc Bergevin find redemption on Youtube.

Just admit you hate the person and not the GM...

 

[CHwest]

He even looks spacey.

 

[Runner77]

Will Marc Bergevin find redemption on Youtube.

Isn't Y/T a place where he scouts players?

 

[OldCraig71]

Just admit you hate the person and not the GM...

I don't hate anybody, not even you, there are times that I even admire your courage in defending your good friend Marc. You are loyal friend Geoff.

 

[Belial]

He even looks spacey.

Of course, he does! Every Habs GM does!

 

[CoopersFalls]

Good:
Domi for Galchenyuk
Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd for Pacioretty
Danault, 2nd for Weise and Fleischmann
Reilly for 5th
Radulov signing
Plekanec for Rachel, Valiev, 2nd
Montoya for a 4th
Moen for Gonchar
Gorges for 2nd
Diaz for Weise

Bad:
Subban for Weber
Eller for 2nd x 2 (basing this on the gaping hole left at C afterwards)
Shaw for 2nd x2
Treatment of Radulov resigning
Letting Markov walk.
Semin
Streit
Andrighetto for Martinsen
Dwight King for 4th
Smith-pelly for Matteau
Alzner

The rest fall somewhere in the middle of that.

Aside from the egregious Subban trade, his track record of trading isn’t all that bad. It’s mostly his inability or refusal to address the C position and letting key players walk without adequate replacements that has been his drawback

 

[OldCraig71]

Isn't Y/T a place where he scouts players?

Y/T might be one of the places that contains that special information/facts that most of us are missing.

 

[ottawa]

Good:
Domi for Galchenyuk
Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd for Pacioretty
Danault, 2nd for Weise and Fleischmann Bottom 6 trade
Reilly for 5th Bottom pairing trade
Radulov signing
Plekanec for Rachel, Valiev, 2nd Bottom 6 trade
Montoya for a 4th Back up goalie trade
Moen for Gonchar Bottom pairing trade
Gorges for 2nd Bottom pairing trade
Diaz for Weise Bottom pairing trade

Bad:
Subban for Weber
Eller for 2nd x 2 (basing this on the gaping hole left at C afterwards) Bottom 6 trade
Shaw for 2nd x2 Bottom 6 trade
Treatment of Radulov resigning
Letting Markov walk.
Semin Bottom 6 trade
Streit Bottom pairing trade
Andrighetto for Martinsen Bottom 6 trade
Dwight King for 4th Bottom 6 trade
Smith-pelly for Matteau Bottom 6 trade
Alzner

The rest fall somewhere in the middle of that.

Aside from the egregious Subban trade, his track record of trading isn’t all that bad. It’s mostly his inability or refusal to address the C position and letting key players walk without adequate replacements that has been his drawback

Prior to this year's Galchenyuk and Pacioretty trade, his track record was f***ing awful and all bottom 6 trades. And even now, it's too early to judge the Galchenyuk and Pacioretty trade imo.

See bolded, most are non-improving trades involving the bottom pair/bottom 6

 

[CoopersFalls]

Prior to this year's Galchenyuk and Pacioretty trade, his track record was ****ing awful and all bottom 6 trades. And even now, it's too early to judge the Galchenyuk and Pacioretty trade imo.

See bolded, most are non-improving trades involving the bottom pair/bottom 6

Teams are built on “bottom pairing trades” that you like to call them. The Danault trade was downright thievery.

Also, I don’t know how you can say anything negative about trading Gorges and Plekanec for 2nd round picks. Second rounders are extremely valuable.

 

[ottawa]

Teams are built on “bottom pairing trades” that you like to call them. The Danault trade was downright thievery.

Also, I don’t know how you can say anything negative about trading Gorges and Plekanec for 2nd round picks. Second rounders are extremely valuable.

2nd rounders are extremely valuable? Who was our last valuable 2nd rounder? Subban in 07 is my guess

MB makes minor moves, there's no sugarcoating it. His biggest trades were:

Subban for Weber clear loss
Sergachev for Drouin loss
Tatar + Suzuki for Pacioretty too early to tell
Galchenyuk for Domi too early to tell

 

[CoopersFalls]

2nd rounders are extremely valuable? Who was our last valuable 2nd rounder? Subban in 07 is my guess

MB makes minor moves, there's no sugarcoating it.

Don’t get me started on Timmins as I’m not a fan, but league-wide there’s tons of valuable 2nd rounders. Weber, Kucherov, Bergeron, Subban, Keith, James Neal, Faulk and Zucker just off the top of my head.

 

[Habby4Life]

The negative gong show is on MB...what else can people expect. We have had so little positive come out of the last 4-5 seasons...it's hard to turn that off for most....

That being said, boy is Domi bringing it for the Habs!! This is the makings of a real steal of a deal for MB.

This kid loves playing for the Habs!! Let's hope this play continues.

That is non-sense. The negative gong show on these boards, especially with the Domi trade is due to a large portion of the Habs fan base who typically overreact, are extremely melodramatic, and can't admit when this GM does anything positive.

 

[MaKi]

2nd rounders are extremely valuable? Who was our last valuable 2nd rounder? Subban in 07 is my guess

MB makes minor moves, there's no sugarcoating it. His biggest trades were:

Subban for Weber clear loss
Sergachev for Drouin loss
Tatar + Suzuki for Pacioretty too early to tell
Galchenyuk for Domi too early to tell

What makes the Subban for Weber trade a clear loss in your mind?

 

[BLONG7]

That is non-sense. The negative gong show on these boards, especially with the Domi trade is due to a large portion of the Habs fan base who typically overreact, are extremely melodramatic, and can't admit when this GM does anything positive.

Over the past 7 seasons, the GM has not done alot of things to be positive about...it's called reality. Can you blame everyone? It's been so awful for so long...Bergevin has created a clown show. Can it change, we can hope.

 

[Andrei79]

Price, Alzner, Shaw and Plekanec have been excellent investments by MB. 21 million well spent.

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

Good:
Domi for Galchenyuk
Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd for Pacioretty
Danault, 2nd for Weise and Fleischmann
Reilly for 5th
Radulov signing
Plekanec for Rachel, Valiev, 2nd
Montoya for a 4th
Moen for Gonchar
Gorges for 2nd
Diaz for Weise

Bad:
Subban for Weber
Eller for 2nd x 2 (basing this on the gaping hole left at C afterwards)
Shaw for 2nd x2
Treatment of Radulov resigning
Letting Markov walk.
Semin
Streit
Andrighetto for Martinsen
Dwight King for 4th
Smith-pelly for Matteau
Alzner

The rest fall somewhere in the middle of that.

Aside from the egregious Subban trade, his track record of trading isn’t all that bad. It’s mostly his inability or refusal to address the C position and letting key players walk without adequate replacements that has been his drawback

Bad:
Big picture; This lead us in the middle of absolutely nowhere, good start but we clearly aren't remotely cup contenders, we will probably end up finishing 10th in the East or something like that, and it might stay like that for quite a long time with Price and Weber lock long term (nearly 20M$ for 2 very meh players moving forward in time)

 

[Runner77]

Price, Alzner, Shaw and Plekanec have been excellent investments by MB. 21 million well spent.

Who stole your password?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

What makes the Subban for Weber trade a clear loss in your mind?

Subban is better, younger, on a better contract, loved and embraced MTL, is a playoff performer...

And that's just before the trade

After the trade the effective results speak for themselves. One is broken down and lost in the first round of the playoffs. The other was a Norris candidate and won a president's trophy and got to the cup finals.

A catastrophic loss.