Marc Bergevin: Redemption Song Part 19

[Garbageyuk]

People are still hating... The type that can't let go of an old girlfriend or somtn..

If you think this is bad, wait a couple weeks.

 

[Rapala]

Does Bergevin 10 years resume is worth an extension?

That was my question and please don't think just because of this special season due to covid.

NO it doesn’t. Why should he be extended based on 2 COVID seasons where we finished 24th and 16th respectively. At best he gets a reprieve and finishes his current agreement instead of being canned. Molson would be a fool to re-sign him before his complete body of work can be analyzed. Unless we witness a miracle. Then he gets three and only three like his counterparts who won a cup.

 

[Bee Holder]

First of all, I want to precise I'm not a Bergevin fan at all, though I like most of the moves he's made recently.

However, judging by a lot of posts in this thread (and I mean a LOT, especially in the first pages), it feels a bit ridiculous how most of you seem to think any GM should be considered bad and fired-worthy for not winning a cup.

As much as I want to agree with the "He hasn't proven sh*t until this team wins a cup" argument, I feel it doesn't make sense.

30 teams (soon to be 31) will not win a cup every given year. Does that mean that their GM should all be fired for not doing so? Because some of the posts sounds a lot like that.

Again, not defending Bergy, not a fan, but guys, now that the team is finally trending upward, and that we FINALLY have actual potential young game-breakers in our team/system, can't we just wait, at least until the end of our playoffs, before we put him on a cross?

 

[smcgreg]

Should the Bruins have trusted in Chiarelli after he won?
This Bergevin discussions is really showing me how poorly people analyze.
Oh..hot streak..Wow, what a great GM!
Miss the POs...Pfft...he sucks, fire his ass!

You can't just look at a single result and decide what's best for the future based solely on that.
You need to view the entire body of work, examine the circumstances/context leading to some of the decisions, how much went into planning, a structure, a vision, what does that look like moving forward, odds of repeating, oppositions, etc.
The Habs went into the POs as the 16th seed, if they win, that's a huge rarity. If we look at our point total, we don't even qualify for the POs in a normal season. That doesn't bode well for a repeat.
What would Bergevin's philosophy be for the team moving forward?

Winning should not automatically mean..extension and full credit. Sometimes it does, sometimes not so much.

Well, considering how long he lasted during the first half of his tenure, I think it's pretty unrealistic to believe he's going anywhere if he wins a cup.... ;-)

I find it kind of funny that I"m "defending" MB, but honestly, if he wins a cup, what makes you think you know more than he does? That's a hubris on the level of the "Sublime Maestro" OP. I have not been a fan for years, but earlier this season when they were on a tear, I thought to myself, "he's had a decent off season".

I've seen all the warts in the first half of MB's tenure, believe me. I went round and round with Jaffy years ago. That being said, I'm willing to concede that it is possible for a GM to learn on the job. Whether the moves he's made the past couple years were just dumb luck, or a demonstration of one of my favorite axioms "nothing focuses the mind like a gun to the head",... the team is decent now. As I stated earlier, he finally canned SL and then ..... in one of the ballsiest moves..... sacks Clode for DD midseason. This may have been one of his master strokes if he is indeed a sublime maestro ;-) As you say, if we take the "body of work" of the second part of his tenure, it's clearly on a better trajectory than the first. Where it goes from here, we'll have to wait and see. I'm sure he'll be with us for a couple more years, so, you'll have your chance to evaluate the post-pandemic record and the staying power of this current roster.

I will go on record saying, I think our D are going to get hemmed in our zone and CP will have to stand on his head to go any farther. Vegas is a faster, heavier team than the previous two rounds and I just don't think the current D lineup has the speed to do anything other than play box and hope CP is in God mode. If they exceed my expectations, I'll gladly say I was wrong. If I'm not wrong, that will expose MB's main problem in my view (still) is his aversion to PMD, which will in turn argue he doesn't know how to build a team. Maybe he'll learn though if they get bounced. Or,.. maybe I'll have to admit I was wrong. In a week or so, we should know.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

First of all, I want to precise I'm not a Bergevin fan at all, though I like most of the moves he's made recently.

However, judging by a lot of posts in this thread (and I mean a LOT, especially in the first pages), it feels a bit ridiculous how most of you seem to think any GM should be considered bad and fired-worthy for not winning a cup.

As much as I want to agree with the "He hasn't proven sh*t until this team wins a cup" argument, I feel it doesn't make sense.

30 teams (soon to be 31) will not win a cup every given year. Does that mean that their GM should all be fired for not doing so? Because some of the posts sounds a lot like that.

Again, not defending Bergy, not a fan, but guys, now that the team is finally trending upward, and that we FINALLY have actual potential young game-breakers in our team/system, can't we just wait, at least until the end of our playoffs, before we put him on a cross?

As long as others don't put him on a pedestal based on a hypothetical win. There's A LOT of that too. Funny how you didn't mention that.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

let's not forget that Bergevin only made the playoffs by the grace of Covid not once, but two years in a row.

next-level genius or luckiest GM in the NHL? who knows.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's pretty pathetic how they're praising this incredible vision when we haven't won jack. What happens if we lose to COL/VGS in 5?
Not to take anything away from our performances so far, it's been impressive no doubt. But..the Leafs have choked in the first round time and time again I was told, and we still needed Price to be insane. The Jets were disappointing, no amount of trapping can really explain how bad they looked.
But as I said, kudos to our team. They played remarkably well since down 1-3 vs Leafs.

That being said, sending praise for this vision is a tad premature imo. Let us get through the next round first.

Has Bergevin shown this amazing vision for 9 years? Nope.

But I do think we can say that the team he assembled this year is better than last year's team.

 

[Miller Time]

Has Bergevin shown this amazing vision for 9 years? Nope.

But I do think we can say that the team he assembled this year is better than last year's team.

You would hope so after spending ~14M on veteran additions.
Would be hard not to ice a better team when adding that kind of veteran salary to a team lol

That the team went from .500 to .527, in a weaker division, suggests that the improvement didn't quite match the spend, one might argue

 

[Andy]

Has Bergevin shown this amazing vision for 9 years? Nope.

But I do think we can say that the team he assembled this year is better than last year's team.

Hard to tell since the North Division was really, really flawed. I think we'll find out how good this team is when they play Vegas or Colorado.

I truly believe that in a regular, non-COVID, organized season, the Leafs would have been the only Canadian team to make the playoffs.

That said, you can't take away the fact that they spanked the Jets.

 

[Rapala]

First of all, I want to precise I'm not a Bergevin fan at all, though I like most of the moves he's made recently.

However, judging by a lot of posts in this thread (and I mean a LOT, especially in the first pages), it feels a bit ridiculous how most of you seem to think any GM should be considered bad and fired-worthy for not winning a cup.

As much as I want to agree with the "He hasn't proven sh*t until this team wins a cup" argument, I feel it doesn't make sense.

30 teams (soon to be 31) will not win a cup every given year. Does that mean that their GM should all be fired for not doing so? Because some of the posts sounds a lot like that.

Again, not defending Bergy, not a fan, but guys, now that the team is finally trending upward, and that we FINALLY have actual potential young game-breakers in our team/system, can't we just wait, at least until the end of our playoffs, before we put him on a cross?

I'm not sure where you are getting has to win the cup from? How about he has to make the playoffs in a normal season because as mentioned previously our placement indicates we wouldn't have touched the post season. Once again finish the contract and then base the assessment on the past 7 or even 8 years. If you look at it honestly there is no way this management should survive.

 

[Hins77]

Hard to tell since the North Division was really, really flawed. I think we'll find out how good this team is when they play Vegas or Colorado.

I truly believe that in a regular, non-COVID, organized season, the Leafs would have been the only Canadian team to make the playoffs.

That said, you can't take away the fact that they spanked the Jets.

Based on wich facts? Every division had their strong and bad team. Every team had their good and bad stretch. North diviison was maybe the one where the jetlag was the most important on each player. Its more difficult for the body without a doubt. Montreal was a team considered a middle of the pack at the begginning of the year. Thats what happened.

 

[Wats]

First of all, I want to precise I'm not a Bergevin fan at all, though I like most of the moves he's made recently.

However, judging by a lot of posts in this thread (and I mean a LOT, especially in the first pages), it feels a bit ridiculous how most of you seem to think any GM should be considered bad and fired-worthy for not winning a cup.

As much as I want to agree with the "He hasn't proven sh*t until this team wins a cup" argument, I feel it doesn't make sense.

30 teams (soon to be 31) will not win a cup every given year. Does that mean that their GM should all be fired for not doing so? Because some of the posts sounds a lot like that.

Again, not defending Bergy, not a fan, but guys, now that the team is finally trending upward, and that we FINALLY have actual potential young game-breakers in our team/system, can't we just wait, at least until the end of our playoffs, before we put him on a cross?

This comes off as someone who just watched the past 2-3 weeks and ignored the previous 4-5 years. Finally have actual potential? He walked into organization with a young Price/Pacioretty/Subban, what were they?

 

[Rapala]

Based on wich facts? Every division had their strong and bad team. Every team had their good and bad stretch. North diviison was maybe the one where the jetlag was the most important on each player. Its more difficult for the body without a doubt. Montreal was a team considered a middle of the pack at the begginning of the year. Thats what happened.

Sure let's ignore the stretch run where we cemented our spot in the post season with all those wins. Had there been another 26 games we were trending down big time and likely out.

 

[Hins77]

Sure let's ignore the stretch run where we cemented our spot in the post season with all those wins. Had there been another 26 games we were trending down big time and likely out.

Not sure what your are talking about. I mean. Those lost in overtime give a point. Thats the rule. We were the team with a the least lost in regular time. Ths showing how we were good to keep going in OT and don’t let the opponent scoring. Every team have bad stretch. Not just montreal. Kids are improving continually. They step up right now

 

[Andy]

Based on wich facts? Every division had their strong and bad team. Every team had their good and bad stretch. North diviison was maybe the one where the jetlag was the most important on each player. Its more difficult for the body without a doubt. Montreal was a team considered a middle of the pack at the begginning of the year. Thats what happened.

Based on the fact that I watch more than just habs games. The quality of hockey in the North division was poor.

 

[Andy]

Not sure what your are talking about. I mean. Those lost in overtime give a point. Thats the rule. We were the team with a the least lost in regular time. Ths showing how we were good to keep going in OT and don’t let the opponent scoring. Every team have bad stretch. Not just montreal. Kids are improving continually. They step up right now

The habs had like 17 wins in their last 40 games or something crazy like that. It's not a bad stretch, it's below .500 hockey for a majority of this season and a half of a regular 82 game season.

 

[Hins77]

Based on the fact that I watch more than just habs games. The quality of hockey in the North division was poor.

Me too. I saw many games going faster than the habs. But the habs arent playing thats sort of game. They arent playing open hockey like colorado so it showing a worst fun game to watch. I would like to see colorado playing thats kind of game against a hot carey price . The can play open game. I have no problem. I hope Montreal will exploit their liability in d zone cause you can’t play an agressive game and being efficient at 100% in your d zone and backchek

 

[Andy]

Me too. I saw many games going faster than the habs. But the habs arent playing thats sort of game. They arent playing open hockey like colorado so it showing a worst fun game to watch. I would like to see colorado playing thats kind of game against a hot carey price . The can play open game. I have no problem. I hope Montreal will exploit their liability in d zone cause you can’t play an agressive game and being efficient at 100% in your d zone and backchek

Okay, but this doesn't change the fact that most of the teams in the North Division were poor.

The habs had the 5th most wins in that division.

It's really hard to assess what this team is as a result. We'll see when what happens when we play Vegas/Colorado. The habs weren't particularly impressive against the leafs outside game 7. We're letting our series win against the Jets (which was dominant) revisit what actually happened in the leafs series.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

The team is currently overachieving in a poor division. They have momentum and can maybe go further. I don't have any interest in being a non believer, we are all Habs fans at the end of the day.

If you believe that MB is doing a good job, I really need you to explain to me from the beginning of his tenure how you actually feel that he has done a good job. Next year is year ten, and it took COVID last year to get him a playoff spot. It took a shortened season against weak teams this year to make the playoffs. It's great to be the best of the worse, but are we really going to give this GM a pat on the back?

I had always thought from the moves he made in the off season, the fact that this was a short season which meant our older players had less wear and tear on their bodies overall. The Habs D is not the best in transition and I worry that over a long season those bumps and bruises will make players play more conservative which in turn will mean less good forward passes and less effective zone entries with speed.

The fact they are the Canadian division champion does come as a surprise, only because they finished the season so poorly, but none the less it wasn't unexpected (coming back from 3-1 down to the leafs and sweeping the Jets would have been hard to predicted). I was pretty optimistic when the season started that this would be the best year for the Habs to make the final 4 and look where they are. I wouldn't have put money on it, but it was still their best shot given the circumstances.

With the teams all likely going back to their divisions, meaning the Habs will have to compete with TB, Boston, Florida, Toronto, Ottawa (they always play the Habs real tough), Detroit and lastly Buffalo. If they play the regular season again the same way (albeit the coaching change and lack of practice does also have to be factored in) then they don't make the playoffs in the east.

MB did great for this season. He used his advantage of cap space wisely by signing Toffoli, Perry, Edmundson and trading for Allen. Four players with cup rings and 3 of which are really brining it in the playoffs. Staal was another pickup that was cheap and proving to be fruitful in the playoffs. I can't take any of this away from him even if they were teetering on the brink of collapse two weeks ago.

Next year will be a make it or break it year for MB. Can he turn the positive run of this playoff into something more, or does that team fall back into mediocrity and struggle mightly to create scoring chances. Molson can't be so stupid to go from about to fire a guy to giving him and extension, right?

 

[Essenege]

oh cmon ''start this narrative''

''He got us there'' He got us where?

If we lost that third game against CGY we were not even in playoffs. stop trying to sell me that this team is good overall We needed a global pandemic , a canadian divsion season and losing in overtime to make the playoffs. Pure Bullshit. This forum still rides that Danault is a top 6 center for god sakes.

The only reason we made it past round 1 was because of Carey Price a player drafted in 2005. Don't act like his acquisitions Josh Anderson on pace for 40 points at 5.5m for 7 years is such a homerun of a trade. Staal was close to be healthy scratch before playoffs , Merrill is not even playing , Gustafsson plays 9min a game because he's at maximum risk.

I will get a grip when Bergevin stop lying to us like he did several PC and when he was hired ''build through the draft'' My f***ing ass. ''We will find a #1 center'' . Needed 5 years of his job and trade a 40 goals scorer to potentially find one. Give me a break.

Let me ask you a question Habs Halifax . Does Bergevin 10 years resume is worth an extension? I really wanna hear your response.

Im happy we are in the third round but saying it's because of Marc Bergevin is a pure joke. His roster is f***ing ass and the Jets were absolutely terrible and the leafs had to choke harder than the Clippers to make us go round 2 even if Price made it possible.

''This narrative'' Im so tired of this , im proving my points with actual facts and people response after 10 years '' yo we made it to the third round in a weak ass division , Bergevin is a genius''. Cmon man.

You guys are so negative. If we lost the third game against Calgary…

Are you doing any effort to see the other side sometime? There’s is A LOT more that didn’t go our way this year suggesting our record is below what it should have been.

- A LOT of OT loss record.

- 25 games in 42 days, the most condensed stretch in league’s history….in a Canadian division involving a lot of travel. Like almost 2/3 of our regulation losses came in that stretch.

- injuries to important players in said stretch.

But of course, you’re going to focus on « the game they won but could have lost ». Farcical.

 

[Miller Time]

You guys are so negative. If we lost the third game against Calgary…

Are you doing any effort to see the other side sometime? There’s is A LOT more that didn’t go our way this year suggesting our record is below what it should have been.

- A LOT of OT loss record.

- 25 games in 42 days, the most condensed stretch in league’s history….in a Canadian division involving a lot of travel. Like almost 2/3 of our regulation losses came in that stretch.

- injuries to important players in said stretch.

But of course, you’re going to focus on « the game they won but could have lost ». Farcical.

Could've been better...
Could've been worse...

Was what it was.

 

[417]

You would hope so after spending ~14M on veteran additions.
Would be hard not to ice a better team when adding that kind of veteran salary to a team lol

That the team went from .500 to .527, in a weaker division, suggests that the improvement didn't quite match the spend, one might argue

I think it's difficult to judge the Habs regular season performance this year because of the odd circumstances they faced.

But I think I'm comfortable in thinking there was some progression from the previous year.

Still not near where they need to be...but it's not realistic to expect a team to go from 24th last year to a top 5 team in one offseason.

 

[417]

This comes off as someone who just watched the past 2-3 weeks and ignored the previous 4-5 years. Finally have actual potential? He walked into organization with a young Price/Pacioretty/Subban, what were they?

I think we've run the cycle on the previous 4-5 years.

It's a different team today than it was 4-5 years ago.

Not sure how productive that conversation can get at this point.

 

[Essenege]

Could've been better...
Could've been worse...

Was what it was.

Ok. Well we’re in semi-final now so it is what it is.

….

In the end we were somewhat lucky to beat Toronto. We were also on balance pretty unlucky during the regular season. We were the 2nd best team in the division and if you watched the games against Oilers and Jets without bias, and cut them some slack for the lack of performance down the stretch, you knew it.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I don't like Bergevin either but I think some posters on this board are genuinely pissed that this team is winning games for reasons that only superficially have to do with hockey.