Marc Bergevin: Redemption Song Part 19

[Miller Time]

I think it's difficult to judge the Habs regular season performance this year because of the odd circumstances they faced.

But I think I'm comfortable in thinking there was some progression from the previous year.

Still not near where they need to be...but it's not realistic to expect a team to go from 24th last year to a top 5 team in one offseason.

No doubt.
The point was simply that it's pretty clear the team was better, and, with the investment/additions made, it would've been near impossible not to be.

How much better? Not very much. Lots of variables affecting that, to be sure. One, imo, is that the moves themselves, while numerous, failed to address the most glaring need the team had.

 

[417]

Based on the fact that I watch more than just habs games. The quality of hockey in the North division was poor.

This has been a common theme in the media and amongst fans.

I'm not quite sure I buy it...

I think, as usual, there was a ton of focus on the Canadian division this year. In this country, it was Canadian division talk, all the time.

So when you get to the playoffs and fans/media start watching and playing attention to the hockey being played in other divisions...

There's this sense of novelty, IMO, that makes people believe that the hockey in the other divisions is just so much better.

I'm not convinced that's really the case...I think it's over-exposure in Canadian markets and lack of exposure to teams in the US.

The only team I've found that is playing on another level is the Tampa Bay Lightning.

The Knights, Avs, Bruins, Caps, etc...all teams with flaws, just like the ones in the North Division.

 

[Andy]

This has been a common theme in the media and amongst fans.

I'm not quite sure I buy it...

I think, as usual, there was a ton of focus on the Canadian division this year. In this country, it was Canadian division talk, all the time.

So when you get to the playoffs and fans/media start watching and playing attention to the hockey being played in other divisions...

There's this sense of novelty, IMO, that makes people believe that the hockey in the other divisions is just so much better.

I'm not convinced that's really the case...I think it's over-exposure in Canadian markets and lack of exposure to teams in the US.

The only team I've found that is playing on another level is the Tampa Bay Lightning.

The Knights, Avs, Bruins, Caps, etc...all teams with flaws, just like the ones in the North Division.

The Knights, Avs, Bruins, Caps, all make the playoffs in a normal year. I don't think the Oilers & Jets do.

 

[417]

No doubt.
The point was simply that it's pretty clear the team was better, and, with the investment/additions made, it would've been near impossible not to be.

How much better? Not very much. Lots of variables affecting that, to be sure. One, imo, is that the moves themselves, while numerous, failed to address the most glaring need the team had.

Agreed ..heading into this season I thought the Montreal Canadiens were as good as any team in the North and until COVID came to ravage the Habs schedule...that prognostication was proving true.

And to be honest, most fans and media felt that way.

Perhaps the Leafs were the consensus favorite but almost everyone expected the Habs to push them.

So I'm not terribly surprised the Habs essentially "won the North".

What happens from here IMO, is gravy because of the experience being gained by our young players.

Next year though, the level of expectation rises, being a middle of the pack team is just not going to cut it and it's going to be a very challenging offseason for MB.

So while he can pay himself on the back for where the Habs currently are...I wouldn't waste too much time admiring myself in the mirror.

 

[417]

The Knights, Avs, Bruins, Caps, all make the playoffs in a normal year. I don't think the Oilers & Jets do.

Maybe ..I'm just not really buying this theory that the North is so much worse than every other division.

I think there's alot of paralysis by analysis...all we've watched his hockey between Canadian teams.

It's normal when you're exposed to hockey with different teams that your mind convinced itself that that hockey so sooooo much better.

But like I said...not convinced.

There's only 1 team I look at and I feel like they're playing on a different level and again, that's the Tampa Bay Lightning.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I love the arguments like "If we lost that game against the Leafs..."

Newsflash, almost all championship playoff runs are close affairs, where one loss could have changed everything.

 

[Miller Time]

Agreed ..heading into this season I thought the Montreal Canadiens were as good as any team in the North and until COVID came to ravage the Habs schedule...that prognostication was proving true.

And to be honest, most fans and media felt that way.

Perhaps the Leafs were the consensus favorite but almost everyone expected the Habs to push them.

So I'm not terribly surprised the Habs essentially "won the North".

What happens from here IMO, is gravy because of the experience being gained by our young players.

Next year though, the level of expectation rises, being a middle of the pack team is just not going to cut it and it's going to be a very challenging offseason for MB.

So while he can pay himself on the back for where the Habs currently are...I wouldn't waste too much time admiring myself in the mirror.

Indeed... For all the talk of how he's "learning" as a GM, let's pray he does a far far better job leveraging the learning/experience gained by these young players and managing the roster than he did the last time we made the conference finals... We all know what came next that time

 

[lynx]

I'm cheering for the Habs BIG time right now, you know why? Because this team that Bergevin has slopped together has, with a little luck, avoided the odds and scratched their way to the final four - the ultimate underdog. They are doing this IN SPITE of Bergevin, clearly shown by the ridiculous opening game lineup without KK and Caufield.

Next year if we miss the playoffs we'll be right back to the endless loop of "built for the playoffs but not quite good enough to get there". Enjoy the ride, we might not see it for a long time

 

[Habs Halifax]

Maybe ..I'm just not really buying this theory that the North is so much worse than every other division.

I think there's alot of paralysis by analysis...all we've watched his hockey between Canadian teams.

It's normal when you're exposed to hockey with different teams that your mind convinced itself that that hockey so sooooo much better.

But like I said...not convinced.

There's only 1 team I look at and I feel like they're playing on a different level and again, that's the Tampa Bay Lightning.

We agree on this. Every season is different with some teams falling and other teams rising. There are only a few legit cup contenders that are there year after year and then a bunch of other teams that move in the top 5-10 range and out of that range the next year.

People need to take notice on how the Islanders and Knights are winning games. It's not all about the offensive glair and they are playing hockey as a team. It's exactly how the Habs have been playing and a lot of people are not considering that the Habs are trending upwards with the rising youth core with the vets still around. Improvements we made in the offseason directly address some of our flaws. Way too many people ignoring that. Price was also amazing last playoffs but the team failed to score against the Flyers. Habs are actually scoring when we need to this playoffs and it's ignored where Price gets all the credit. He's a game changer but the team in front of him does not suck.

Habs can struggle in the next round or they could do well. Playoffs is about adjustments from game to game and all players playing within the teams's structure. Teams like the Avs and Lightning have an edge on the PP for the most part.

 

[Zxlime]

This has been a common theme in the media and amongst fans.

I'm not quite sure I buy it...

I think, as usual, there was a ton of focus on the Canadian division this year. In this country, it was Canadian division talk, all the time.

So when you get to the playoffs and fans/media start watching and playing attention to the hockey being played in other divisions...

There's this sense of novelty, IMO, that makes people believe that the hockey in the other divisions is just so much better.

I'm not convinced that's really the case...I think it's over-exposure in Canadian markets and lack of exposure to teams in the US.

The only team I've found that is playing on another level is the Tampa Bay Lightning.

The Knights, Avs, Bruins, Caps, etc...all teams with flaws, just like the ones in the North Division.

Agreed. I predicted the Avs would win the cup based on the starpower and their super quick transition game that comes from their young offensive minded D-core. However now that i'm paying close attention to the Knights/Avalanche series i'm seeing cringe-worthy defensive brain farts from Colorado. They are not a perfect team by any means.

I think that the main reason for people thinking that the North Division is weaker, is that we generally tend to have a favorable bias towards flashy offense. Also, there is a massive distinction between a line-up (i.e. on-paper talent) and a "Team" that people tend to have issues wraping their heads around.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Agreed. I predicted the Avs would win the cup based on the starpower and their super quick transition game that comes from their young offensive minded D-core. However now that i'm paying close attention to the Knights/Avalanche series i'm seeing cringe-worthy defensive brain farts from Colorado. They are not a perfect team by any means.

I think that the main reason for people thinking that the North Division is weaker, is that we generally tend to have a favorable bias towards flashy offense. Also, there is a massive distinction between a line-up (i.e. on-paper talent) and a "Team" that people tend to have issues wraping their heads around.

Avs are where Tampa was not long ago, the holes are obvious and could probably be "easily" fixed.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm cheering for the Habs BIG time right now, you know why? Because this team that Bergevin has slopped together has, with a little luck, avoided the odds and scratched their way to the final four - the ultimate underdog. They are doing this IN SPITE of Bergevin, clearly shown by the ridiculous opening game lineup without KK and Caufield.

Next year if we miss the playoffs we'll be right back to the endless loop of "built for the playoffs but not quite good enough to get there". Enjoy the ride, we might not see it for a long time

The dislike for Bergevin is evident in your back handed complement narrative. Proof? It's not Bergevin who is the coach and decided to sit KK and Caufield. It was Ducharme but you can't resist to blame Bergevin for it. Nonsense

Scratched our way to final four? We are less than 60 min's away from breaking a record from the 60's. Come on man.

 

[417]

Agreed. I predicted the Avs would win the cup based on the starpower and their super quick transition game that comes from their young offensive minded D-core. However now that i'm paying close attention to the Knights/Avalanche series i'm seeing cringe-worthy defensive brain farts from Colorado. They are not a perfect team by any means.

Agreed...if I'm an Avalanche fan, if somehow the Avs can get passed the Knights.

I'd be concerned about playing the Habs. I know most will find that funny give the stat power on the Avs...but the Habs are actually built quite well to play a team like the Avs, who IMO, are very top heavy and have question marks on the back end and in goal (IMO).

They're also not a particularly "hard team". The Avs are built alot like the Leafs IMO, but with less depth across their lineup.

That being said... McKinnon, unlike M&M has shown the ability to bring his game to another level.

I think that the main reason for people thinking that the North Division is weaker, is that we generally tend to have a favorable bias towards flashy offense. Also, there is a massive distinction between a line-up (i.e. on-paper talent) and a "Team" that people tend to have issues wraping their heads around.

I think it's because we've literally spent 6 months find every possible flaw of every Canadian team.

It's easy to tune into a game between the Avs and Knights and come away with the sentiment that they're playing at a much higher level.

Like I said...not convinced on that

 

[BaseballCoach]

The habs had like 17 wins in their last 40 games or something crazy like that. It's not a bad stretch, it's below .500 hockey for a majority of this season and a half of a regular 82 game season.

With a ridiculous condensed schedule and significant injuries during that stretch.

The roster is constructed ok when the highest paid player, rather than not playing even half the games, is playing regularly and up to his contract.

When Tatar is a healthy scratch and there is talk that either Lehkonen or Evans has to sit soon, the forwards are pretty decent.

The back end is more questionable, but no team in a salary cap league will be perfect everywhere.. Again when Romanov can't get into the lineup, it's not terrible either.

I don't know if Bergevin was lucky or good, but the team is better than last year. Most of the new guys who came in contributed.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Herd of Sheep problem... I was talking to a few fellow Habs fans over the last few days and they admitted that they fell into the Bergevin hate trap. His popularity is so bad and it has spiraled out of control. They told me this without me saying anything.

There is like 10% of our fan base that really hates the guy. They say they don't hate him but don't consider the comments said that are very nasty and reeks of frustration (same with Drouin.. it's no different). Then others who are easily influenced and equally frustrated with the lack of succus jump on the bandwagon and blame game... Bergevin. He's not a genius GM but he's not the idiot some pretend him to be. He's done some good work in recent years since the point where he was really trendy badly (2016 and 2017). Some will never move past it. Reality

 

[BaseballCoach]

Agreed ..heading into this season I thought the Montreal Canadiens were as good as any team in the North and until COVID came to ravage the Habs schedule...that prognostication was proving true.

And to be honest, most fans and media felt that way.

Perhaps the Leafs were the consensus favorite but almost everyone expected the Habs to push them.

So I'm not terribly surprised the Habs essentially "won the North".

What happens from here IMO, is gravy because of the experience being gained by our young players.

Next year though, the level of expectation rises, being a middle of the pack team is just not going to cut it and it's going to be a very challenging offseason for MB.

So while he can pay himself on the back for where the Habs currently are...I wouldn't waste too much time admiring myself in the mirror.

If Bergevin can rid himself of Drouin's and Tatar's contracts and maybe Byron's too, there should be room to take the team forward even more.

Hopefully the young kids progress faster than the old farts fade.

 

[Miller Time]

I love the arguments like "If we lost that game against the Leafs..."

Newsflash, almost all championship playoff runs are close affairs, where one loss could have changed everything.

That's the point you seem to be missing...

Results in a highly competitive environment are always subject to razor thin margins.

Considering results alone is a poor way to assess anything other than the result.

You can do the wrong things, and get a good result.
You can do the right things, and get a bad result.

Hence why some can enjoy the ride without needing to gloss over all the poor decisions. MB was the same GM (as far as decision-making) wether we won/loss the last two series.

If he wins a cup, he gets that title, and all the acclaim that goes with it... Just like cup winning head coach Jean Perron.

 

[lynx]

The dislike for Bergevin is evident in your back handed complement narrative. Proof? It's not Bergevin who is the coach and decided to sit KK and Caufield. It was Ducharme but you can't resist to blame Bergevin for it. Nonsense

Scratched our way to final four? We are less than 60 min's away from breaking a record from the 60's. Come on man.

So you missed the part where Bergevin called for goaltender interference? Don't be ridiculous, a 9 year GM paired with a months-long coach has a LOT of input on what happens with the team. C'mon man.

 

[417]

If Bergevin can rid himself of Drouin's and Tatar's contracts and maybe Byron's too, there should be room to take the team forward even more.

Hopefully the young kids progress faster than the old farts fade.

Tatar is a pending UFA, so he'll be off the books.

The silence on Drouin is confusing things heading into this offseason, it will be interesting to see how that situation plays itself out.

Byron I think the team really likes him but I could see him being moved if they need the room.

Danault and Armia are 2 guys i'd like to have come back, but the price point will be huge.

Either way, big offseason for Bergevin...hope he's not ready to kick his feet up cause his team made it to the Final 4.

I still believe this organization's true "window" is another 2 years away. So what he does this offseason, will be huge towards that end.

 

[Andy]

Herd of Sheep problem... I was talking to a few fellow Habs fans over the last few days and they admitted that they fell into the Bergevin hate trap. His popularity is so bad and it has spiraled out of control. They told me this without me saying anything.

There is like 10% of our fan base that really hates the guy. They say they don't hate him but don't consider the comments said that are very nasty and reeks of frustration (same with Drouin.. it's no different). Then others who are easily influenced and equally frustrated with the lack of succus jump on the bandwagon and blame game... Bergevin. He's not a genius GM but he's not the idiot some pretend him to be. He's done some good work in recent years since the point where he was really trendy badly (2016 and 2017). Some will never move past it. Reality

I honestly don't know anyone who dislikes MB outside of this board.

 

[CHwest]

Herd of Sheep problem... I was talking to a few fellow Habs fans over the last few days and they admitted that they fell into the Bergevin hate trap. His popularity is so bad and it has spiraled out of control. They told me this without me saying anything.

There is like 10% of our fan base that really hates the guy. They say they don't hate him but don't consider the comments said that are very nasty and reeks of frustration (same with Drouin.. it's no different). Then others who are easily influenced and equally frustrated with the lack of succus jump on the bandwagon and blame game... Bergevin. He's not a genius GM but he's not the idiot some pretend him to be. He's done some good work in recent years since the point where he was really trendy badly (2016 and 2017). Some will never move past it. Reality

He's an idiot. Do you think the Habs make the playoffs next year?

 

[dcyhabs]

In a normal division the habs don't make the playoffs this year, Tampa, Florida, Toronto, Boston. Not sure if the Jets do, their division is weak, Edmonton probably does. So playing against bad teams the habs squeaked into the playoffs. The team is doing well in the playoffs but, based on their regular season, they do not deserve to be there. Team is built for the playoffs but we'll see if they make it in 2022, they should if they play the system they are playing now, and they may play harder if they need to.

 

[dcyhabs]

He's an idiot. Do you think the Habs make the playoffs next year?

"Idiot" is harsh, he doesn't seem like a genius but many of his recent moves have been good and the defence looks good when penalties aren't being called. I'd say the habs need someone to provide vision and stop Bergevin from trading young, cheap guys for old, expensive guys.

 

[417]

I honestly don't know anyone who dislikes MB outside of this board.

Let's be honest here...most of us post here because on some level, we think we know better than the GM lol.

Fan message boards exists specifically for fans to essentially play armchair GM.

I spend a lot of time surfing different boards just trying to gage the temperature of fans on different boards and really, other than the Tampa Bay Lightning board.

Pretty much every fan base wants their GM fired and/or dislike the job he's doing (on that note, the Bruins board is LIT!).

And not that there's anything wrong with that...I just find that right now, given where the team is, MB's autopsy can wait another couple of weeks.

 

[Miller Time]

I still believe this organization's true "window" is another 2 years away. So what he does this offseason, will be huge towards that end.

I'd agree... & that's the concerning underside of the otherwise fun ride.

Like last summer, the COVID fueled playoff "success" runs the risk of a repeat attempt to shortcut/fast track the roster rebuild (or retool or reset, whatever this incoherent last few seasons have been).

All the praise and recency bias fueled credit to his "vision" run the risk of further emboldening him to believe the time is now... And instead of the patient focused work of building around our core young assets to maximize the chance of icing a contender through their prime years, we'll get more piecemeal moves locking us in to a cap maxed roster with glaring holes and needing the kind of rare luck we've seen this offseason to have any shot of similar playoff upsets.

Holding out hope he has indeed learnt something, and instead of more reactionary roster screw ups, leverages the goodwill these two rounds have bought him (& the incoming extension) to be ruthless and tactical in setting us up for success as Suzuki/JKO/CC/Romy hit their prime RFA/mid 20's window...