Marc Bergevin: Redemption Song Part 19

[Runner77]

But it is the truth after almost a decade with him as GM, the team has made the 3rd round of the playoffs and nothing is won yet. The season was a short one and under normal circumstances I am not sure they even make the playoffs. As fans we can love the ride and love the way the team is currently playing but still not trust Bergevin as GM.

Except that if we dare celebrate a Habs win elsewhere, we could be called out in this thread, should we level any criticism toward Bergevin.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Mistakes from last offseason to now,
Anderson's contract - the length in particular. I don't mind the trade but $5.5M for another 6 years ouch...
Not finding a puck moving LHD, hasn't found one since Markov left.
Merrill trade, thankfully it didn't cost much but was really a useless move, rather have the 5th
Same with Gustafsson, thankfully a UFA after the season but his offence is overshadowed by his bad defense.
Drouin trade comes back to haunt the team yet again with his 2 goals and him out and the need for the guy he was traded for on D
$4M of dead cap thanks to Alzner signing and buyout.

Good moves
Signing Toffoli, especially with a good contract that should not hamstring the team in the coming years.
Perry for the taxi squad which turned out way better than anyone could have imagined so far.
The extension for Allen

Neutral
Allen, nice to see a quality backup/1B but the cap his this season was an issue that the team was barely able to manage.
Edmundson, overall liked his play but he was not the type of dman the team needed.

Not sure I want to engage in that. Alzner and Drouin are from past mistakes. Merrill is a depth move that all GM's do at the deadline. Just to name a few areas we don't see the same. With all due respect, I don't have much confidence in you looking from 2016/2017 and beyond that. The retool/reset was around the Patch trade right?

What about the Gallagher contract? I have more concerns with that vs the Anderson contract.

You want to touch on the youth and draft picks? Once again, since the retool point in time?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Can you wait until this team actually accomplishes something before making all your claims? You've been saying this for a while and if we played under normal circumstances, just off points, we don't even make the POs this year.
If it weren't for COVID, we also miss out on some of the roster changes we were able to do.
Good on Bergevin for recognizing the opportunities and taking advantage of them.
Praising him though as some visionary, especially now where we still didn't play another division yet, is premature for me.

The Northern division was weak AF. What was said before this season even started? Aside from the Leafs, it's wide open. So we almost shot ourselves in the foot keeping KK-Co on the sideline to start that series, they lost Tavares, Price played Conn Smythe level. We end up getting through them in an epic comeback, freaking great.
The Jets have not been impressive all year, sweeping them was impressive nonetheless though.

So things look pretty good right now but pump the breaks a bit. We didn't win f*** all.
Again, what will you say about that vision if we lose in the next round?
A team that wouldn't have made the POs under normal circumstances loses the moment they play out of their weak division. So awesome.
Maybe we will go through, I f***ing hope we will, but until that happens I'm not gonna sing praises to Bergey.

I'm not making any claims. I get the feeling you think I'm pumping the final 4 result when I said I wasn't.

What I think is if Bergevin is gone, the new GM likes his starting point. My area of focus is from the point where Molson decided not to fire him due to money he had to write off and how Bergevin was allowed to adjust and learn from mistakes. It was around the 2016/2017 season from what I remember. Today, I like how we have a good group of vets still around to mentor a rising youth core.

A full tank is not in the cards yet but in truth, it might come in a few seasons. We get rid of all vets after the current youth core matures and we pick in the top 10 for a year or two. I do think our GM (Bergevin or not) will ride the Price/Weber train for a bit yet

 

[jaffy27]

Never forget he was 1 goal away twice to be fired , now he is praised

lmfao. Unless we win the cup , this season will be meaningless , becuase next season we won't be protected by the canadian border.

Enjoy the ride
Enjoy watching Caufield making god like plays , Suzuki growing up. KK getting tougher and rising his level . A bit more of Romanov perhaps? He played a good game in game 4.

I hope we think more about the future next offseason than re-signing the players we have right now and move on positively
Perhaps Bergevin should open his eyes for once and get actual offensive talent during the offeseason

oh....you mean like Toffoli and Anderson offensive talent.....noted

 

[Miller Time]

Mistakes from last offseason to now,
Anderson's contract - the length in particular. I don't mind the trade but $5.5M for another 6 years ouch...
Not finding a puck moving LHD, hasn't found one since Markov left.
Merrill trade, thankfully it didn't cost much but was really a useless move, rather have the 5th
Same with Gustafsson, thankfully a UFA after the season but his offence is overshadowed by his bad defense.
Drouin trade comes back to haunt the team yet again with his 2 goals and him out and the need for the guy he was traded for on D
$4M of dead cap thanks to Alzner signing and buyout.

Good moves
Signing Toffoli, especially with a good contract that should not hamstring the team in the coming years.
Perry for the taxi squad which turned out way better than anyone could have imagined so far.
The extension for Allen

Neutral
Allen, nice to see a quality backup/1B but the cap his this season was an issue that the team was barely able to manage.
Edmundson, overall liked his play but he was not the type of dman the team needed.

I'd add:

Mistakes
Waiving Mete
Not keeping some cap space to be opportunistic in-season as it was clear there would be some high-quality/low-cost opportunities
Gally extension... that length/price tag could become a big anchor should injuries continue to hamper him and/or cap not increase over next 2-3-4 years

Neutral
Adding Staal... has paid dividends in post-season, but forced minutes and poor play hurt the team in-season and contributed to the near-collapse that almost cost them shot at PO's
Coaching change mid-season... again here, DD's showing some positive impact at this point, but the situation

 

[jaffy27]

Mistakes from last offseason to now,
Anderson's contract - the length in particular. I don't mind the trade but $5.5M for another 6 years ouch...
Not finding a puck moving LHD, hasn't found one since Markov left.
Merrill trade, thankfully it didn't cost much but was really a useless move, rather have the 5th
Same with Gustafsson, thankfully a UFA after the season but his offence is overshadowed by his bad defense.
Drouin trade comes back to haunt the team yet again with his 2 goals and him out and the need for the guy he was traded for on D
$4M of dead cap thanks to Alzner signing and buyout.

Good moves
Signing Toffoli, especially with a good contract that should not hamstring the team in the coming years.
Perry for the taxi squad which turned out way better than anyone could have imagined so far.
The extension for Allen

Neutral
Allen, nice to see a quality backup/1B but the cap his this season was an issue that the team was barely able to manage.
Edmundson, overall liked his play but he was not the type of dman the team needed.

Thankfully it didn't cost much.......

of course it didn't cost much, that's why he did it lol

Gustafsson besides his one bad play (big freggin deal) has played very good for us, especially coming in cold for us in a wild series....he's exactly what you'd hope for.

Another plus is Staal.....everyone mocked the move but all he's done in the playoffs is produce. He's already paid is dues, anything else from him is f***in bonus man.

Who cares about the Alzner contract right now....we are going to the semi final

He lost in the Drouin trade but won the trades that brought in Allen, Edmundson, Anderson, Danault

I say we move on from moves from 4yrs ago and start focusing on today

 

[beowulf]

Not sure I want to engage in that. Alzner and Drouin are from past mistakes. Merrill is a depth move that all GM's do at the deadline. Just to name a few areas we don't see the same.

You want to touch on the youth and draft picks? Once again, since the retool point in time?

Alzner mistake is still costing the team and he didn't do anything to fix the mistake . Same with Drouin....So unless he fixes them, they are still mistakes.

AA lot of the youth looks promising, Suzuki continues to improve and show he belongs in the NHL. JK is still up and down, was not my pick but he still is very young and has potential. Way to early to say anything definitive on Caufield but has shown himself to be a smart player and so far his lack of size has not hampered him.

As for the most recent draft, too early to praise or crap on anything. Especially after a season that limited how much hockey so many of these kids ended up playing. Guhle has potential to be a good dman but could also end up like Fischer or Juulsen, oh and that is another bad move losing him to waivers. Same with losing Mete for nothing which I think the team will regret down the road.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Just drop it. He's not the idiot many of you were trying to say he is years ago. Not a genius GM but certainly has groomed into a solid one. He got us here to this point without mortgaging the future. His retool/reset is going according to plan. Some of you need to come to grips that Molson didn't fire him in 2016/2017 and move on from it

I find the Bergevin debate war is a major distraction and it's stupid. Nobody wins that debate. What is clear as day is he has learned from mistakes but that is in the past. The last thing we need to do is make a change for the sake of it and hire another GM that learns on the job. There is only so many good ones to hire.

Pressure needs to be on Molson to change his title to CEO and hire a President who can bridge the business and hockey operations. That's where our focus should be and we all need to drop the Bergevin hate or like narrative. We are where we are today and our youth is solid and the vets are still around.

oh cmon ''start this narrative''

''He got us there'' He got us where?

If we lost that third game against CGY we were not even in playoffs. stop trying to sell me that this team is good overall We needed a global pandemic , a canadian divsion season and losing in overtime to make the playoffs. Pure Bullshit. This forum still rides that Danault is a top 6 center for god sakes.

The only reason we made it past round 1 was because of Carey Price a player drafted in 2005. Don't act like his acquisitions Josh Anderson on pace for 40 points at 5.5m for 7 years is such a homerun of a trade. Staal was close to be healthy scratch before playoffs , Merrill is not even playing , Gustafsson plays 9min a game because he's at maximum risk.

I will get a grip when Bergevin stop lying to us like he did several PC and when he was hired ''build through the draft'' My f***ing ass. ''We will find a #1 center'' . Needed 5 years of his job and trade a 40 goals scorer to potentially find one. Give me a break.

Let me ask you a question Habs Halifax . Does Bergevin 10 years resume is worth an extension? I really wanna hear your response.

Im happy we are in the third round but saying it's because of Marc Bergevin is a pure joke. His roster is f***ing ass and the Jets were absolutely terrible and the leafs had to choke harder than the Clippers to make us go round 2 even if Price made it possible.

''This narrative'' Im so tired of this , im proving my points with actual facts and people response after 10 years '' yo we made it to the third round in a weak ass division , Bergevin is a genius''. Cmon man.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Except that if we dare celebrate a Habs win elsewhere, we could be called out in this thread, should we level any criticism toward Bergevin.

It works two ways. Habs struggle and someone comes in to defend anything and gets jumped. Then you look at the Habs reaching final 4 and some come to criticize a potential extension and others jump on that. This back and forth stuff is nonsense and I have a lot of respect for our gang on these boards. We are better than this

I rather look at the bigger picture. Direction since he decided to retool/reset. What would a new GM think? Does he rip it all apart? I think not so I really do think he is a better GM today than he was in 2016/2017. I can't stress this enough... I do think he has adjusted and learned from his mistakes. But some will think that bringing up this stuff means that I think he is a genius GM now.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

oh....you mean like Toffoli and Anderson offensive talent.....noted

Josh Anderson the guy who was on pace for 40 points a season and has 1 goal in his last 22 games?
5.5x7years btw

noted.

We shit on Drouin 50x harder and he gets 55 points a season minimum . Ironic.
Toffoli had a career high also , don't expect him to score 45 goals next season or you will be heavily dissapointed.

Im gonna laugh at loud next offseason if he signs Danault 5.5M x7 and ges 40 point a season with top 6 players and then we will wonder why our team in a normal season is not making the playoffs once again.
Then you will be the first one to say what the hell was that contract.

 

[jaffy27]

Alzner mistake is still costing the team and he didn't do anything to fix the mistake . Same with Drouin....So unless he fixes them, they are still mistakes.

AA lot of the youth looks promising, Suzuki continues to improve and show he belongs in the NHL. JK is still up and down, was not my pick but he still is very young and has potential. Way to early to say anything definitive on Caufield but has shown himself to be a smart player and so far his lack of size has not hampered him.

As for the most recent draft, too early to praise or crap on anything. Especially after a season that limited how much hockey so many of these kids ended up playing. Guhle has potential to be a good dman but could also end up like Fischer or Juulsen, oh and that is another bad move losing him to waivers. Same with losing Mete for nothing which I think the team will regret down the road.

they are both Blunders....especially Alzner......Mete we lost for nothing because he's nothing in my opinion.

KK has been clutch in the playoffs, same with Caufield and Suzuki...it's nice to see the youth take charge and not be passive

 

[Habs Halifax]

Thankfully it didn't cost much.......

of course it didn't cost much, that's why he did it lol

Gustafsson besides his one bad play (big freggin deal) has played very good for us, especially coming in cold for us in a wild series....he's exactly what you'd hope for.

Another plus is Staal.....everyone mocked the move but all he's done in the playoffs is produce. He's already paid is dues, anything else from him is f***in bonus man.

Who cares about the Alzner contract right now....we are going to the semi final

He lost in the Drouin trade but won the trades that brought in Allen, Edmundson, Anderson, Danault

I say we move on from moves from 4yrs ago and start focusing on today

Last part is key but those who wanted him fired in 2016/2017 won't budge from it. That's the feeling I get and a genuine debate looking at pros and cons from the reset/retool point in time will be difficult to do on our boards. Too much history on the past debates for people to move on from I guess.

I'll tell you what I said before. I do not support making a change for the sake of it. I rather have focus on hiring a president who is competent in both business and hockey operations. Someone to bridge the gap between the GM and Owner/CEO. Making a change for the sake of it means we have to do some in depth searching for the right GM and I question who that guy is, that manages the search

If I was President I would not give an extension. I would wait till December/January and I would tell Bergevin that too. I need to see a bit more sample size on how we manage the following..

- Youth core movement
- What vets we bring back and what ones leave
- Drouin situation
- Expansion draft
- Danault contract situation
- How we do in the 1st half of the next season which is back to normal

 

[Habs13]

I still want him fired...

 

[Runner77]

I say we move on from moves from 4yrs ago and start focusing on today

End justifies the means, huh?

You can't carve out four years ago, cause that would include 2012-2017, that's more than half of his tenure.

Plus, you had definitively reneged the guy. Are you back on the bandwagon?

 

[jaffy27]

Josh Anderson the guy who was on pace for 40 points a season and has 1 goal in his last 22 games?
5.5x7years btw

noted.

We shit on Drouin 50x harder and he gets 55 points a season minimum . Ironic.
Toffoli had a career high also , don't expect him to score 45 goals next season or you will be heavily dissapointed.

Im gonna laugh at loud next offseason if he signs Danault 5.5M x7 and ges 40 point a season with top 6 players and then we will wonder why our team in a normal season is not making the playoffs once again.
Then you will be the first one to say what the hell was that contract.

Who cares about his points....I want goals!!! and that's what he gave us, on pace for over 20....who cares if they were scored in the beginning or the end or spread out.

Toffoli is a talented player, that's what you are calling for but when he gets it it's right away "oh don't expect that next year".....like what!!!!

He's got a 30 goal scorer for 4.25m$ and you're not happy with this???

I'm gonna cry if he signs Danault for that much.....4m$ to 4.5m$ MAAAAAAXXXX

Next season when things are normal, KK will be a year older, same with Caufield, same with Suzuki, same with Romanov....and with all the playoff experience.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Josh Anderson the guy who was on pace for 40 points a season and has 1 goal in his last 22 games?
5.5x7years btw

noted.

We shit on Drouin 50x harder and he gets 55 points a season minimum . Ironic.
Toffoli had a career high also , don't expect him to score 45 goals next season or you will be heavily dissapointed.

Im gonna laugh at loud next offseason if he signs Danault 5.5M x7 and ges 40 point a season with top 6 players and then we will wonder why our team in a normal season is not making the playoffs once again.
Then you will be the first one to say what the hell was that contract.

The difference in value between Drouin's game and Anderson's game is not all about points. You know that.

 

[beowulf]

Josh Anderson the guy who was on pace for 40 points a season and has 1 goal in his last 22 games?
5.5x7years btw

noted.

We shit on Drouin 50x harder and he gets 55 points a season minimum . Ironic.
Toffoli had a career high also , don't expect him to score 45 goals next season or you will be heavily dissapointed.

Im gonna laugh at loud next offseason if he signs Danault 5.5M x7 and ges 40 point a season with top 6 players and then we will wonder why our team in a normal season is not making the playoffs once again.
Then you will be the first one to say what the hell was that contract.

My hope is Toffoli can be a 30 or close to goal scorer and 55 points or so. At just over $4M a season that would be acceptable.

The Drouin trade was and is and likely will continue to be a terrible move, one of the worst of his tenure as GM. He was supposed to come in and be the Habs #1 center, how long did that last? Also you don't fill a hole by making another somewhere else on the team.

 

[jaffy27]

End justifies the means, huh?

You can't carve out four years ago, cause that would include 2012-2017, that's more than half of his tenure.

Plus, you had definitively reneged the guy. Are you back on the bandwagon?

I love what Bergevin has done with the team in the last 3yrs, from the current players to the picks, the prospects, the coaches in Laval....was not happy with Ducharme but it would seem I'm eating crow for that right now lol

He made huge mistakes 4yrs ago when he signed Alzner and traded for Drouin.....but since then, I'd say all his moves have been beneficial to where we are today

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Who cares about his points....I want goals!!! and that's what he gave us, on pace for over 20....who cares if they were scored in the beginning or the end or spread out.

Toffoli is a talented player, that's what you are calling for but when he gets it it's right away "oh don't expect that next year".....like what!!!!

He's got a 30 goal scorer for 4.25m$ and you're not happy with this???

I'm gonna cry if he signs Danault for that much.....4m$ to 4.5m$ MAAAAAAXXXX

Next season when things are normal, KK will be a year older, same with Caufield, same with Suzuki, same with Romanov....and with all the playoff experience.

We all want goals but ending with 24 goals and like 6 assists is clearly not enough for what we pay him for. (Anderson)
Toffoli is a good player , i never said he was not a good player , but he never had such a season before. (He was on pace for 40goals++) If you look at his career stats , you can clearly tell it will most likely be a fluke. (It's not I don't wish him to repeat that , I would love to , but the % is low im just realist)
I hope you are gonna cry above 4m for a guy that cant play offensively is just mindblowing.

As for the kids we said the same thing and yet , Danault took all the ice time again this season and got all the wingers for him once again.

Not long ago you were on that bandwagon , I saw your posts .

Im happy what's happening right now but unless Carey Price goes into a being above godlike I don't see us beating Colorado/Vegas or even wors Tampa Bay.

Im not mad at some player we have about Bergevin , im mad about the system he's selling and that whatever he says is just to mock people.

 

[beowulf]

Who cares about his points....I want goals!!! and that's what he gave us, on pace for over 20....who cares if they were scored in the beginning or the end or spread out.

Toffoli is a talented player, that's what you are calling for but when he gets it it's right away "oh don't expect that next year".....like what!!!!

He's got a 30 goal scorer for 4.25m$ and you're not happy with this???

I'm gonna cry if he signs Danault for that much.....4m$ to 4.5m$ MAAAAAAXXXX

Next season when things are normal, KK will be a year older, same with Caufield, same with Suzuki, same with Romanov....and with all the playoff experience.

goals what goals? 1 goal in the playoffs? Sure 17 during the regular season were not bad but still not amazing, looking at the regular season and so far in the playoffs, Anderson is not worth the contract he has for another 6 season, especially with a cap that is likely to stay flat for another two seasons.

As for Danault, it's not only the amount of the contract but the term...even at $4.5M if he gives him 7-8 years...ouch.

 

[jaffy27]

Last part is key but those who wanted him fired in 2016/2017 won't budge from it. That's the feeling I get and a genuine debate looking at pros and cons from the reset/retool point in time will be difficult to do on our boards. Too much history on the past debates for people to move on from I guess.

I'll tell you what I said before. I do not support making a change for the sake of it. I rather have focus on hiring a president who is competent in both business and hockey operations. Someone to bridge the gap between the GM and Owner/CEO. Making a change for the sake of it means we have to do some in depth searching for the right GM and I question who that guy is, that manages the search

If I was President I would not give an extension. I would wait till December/January and I would tell Bergevin that too. I need to see a bit more sample size on how we manage the following..

- Youth core movement
- What vets we bring back and what ones leave
- Drouin situation
- Expansion draft
- Danault contract situation
- How we do in the 1st half of the next season which is back to normal

I agree......but if we win the cup then the extension is automatic in my opinion

But your points are valid and I'm buying your brand

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

My hope is Toffoli can be a 30 or close to goal scorer and 55 points or so. At just over $4M a season that would be acceptable.

The Drouin trade was and is and likely will continue to be a terrible move, one of the worst of his tenure as GM. He was supposed to come in and be the Habs #1 center, how long did that last? Also you don't fill a hole by making another somewhere else on the team.

Yeah Toffoli at 30 goals would be insane but id go around 25 goals + 25 assists. But like we need players that can brake into 65 points+ to make this roster go further.

 

[Runner77]

It works two ways.

No it doesn't. I'm a fan of the team. I cheer for the team to win and celebrate their wins.

I should not be called for that in another thread that analyzes Bergevin's tenure.

You can both celebrate a Hab win but not see eye to eye on how Bergevin has managed the club. It's not incompatible.

 

[jaffy27]

goals what goals? 1 goal in the playoffs? Sure 17 during the regular season were not bad but still not amazing, looking at the regular season and so far in the playoffs, Anderson is not worth the contract he has for another 6 season, especially with a cap that is likely to stay flat for another two seasons.

As for Danault, it's not only the amount of the contract but the term...even at $4.5M if he gives him 7-8 years...ouch.

I heard he's dealing with an injury, same with Weber s0 I can excuse them for that.....ya.....8yrs....don't think that'll happen....4yrs max...maybe 5

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

The difference in value between Drouin's game and Anderson's game is not all about points. You know that.

I 100% agree with you on that. But Drouin and Anderson were not the trade it was Domi. Domi was on pace for the same amount of point but still you are right , his playstyle is something we needed but the thing is , it's like having 2 gallagher , yes they are good players but the contracts are still a bit too heavy , alot more on Gallagher's case.
Also im still waiting for your reply on my question.