Marc Bergevin: Offseason Summertime Love Edition

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's my point, isn't it? That the 10M is only worth it if they know he'll be the #1. (BTW, if they sign him, there's no way he'll be the #2 as early as this year. Domi will move to wing, and Kotka and Danault will be 2 & 3)

I just don't see why we sign him and put Domi on the wing when Domi's younger and outproduced him for half the cost last season. I don't get this logic.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I just don't see why we sign him and put Domi on the wing when Domi's younger and outproduced him for half the cost last season. I don't get this logic.

He outproduced him because he played more games, but yes, it's close. I see what you're saying, but here's why they might want Duchene:
- he's free. no assets needed to acquire.
- he's more experienced at center ... a safeguard against the possibly that Domi ends up being more suited to the wing.
- he's much better at faceoffs. ~ 10% pt difference.
- they might like Domi as a winger. Possibly a good fit with a center like Duchene. After all, they'd have both.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He outproduced him because he played more games, but yes, it's close. I see what you're saying, but here's why they might want Duchene:
- he's free. no assets needed to acquire.
- he's more experienced at center ... a safeguard against the possibly that Domi ends up being more suited to the wing.
- he's much better at faceoffs. ~ 10% pt difference.
- they might like Domi as a winger. Possibly a good fit with a center like Duchene. After all, they'd have both.

How would Domi feel about moving to the wing? He crushed it last year and now we move him? I think he'd be (deservedly) pissed.

And if you add Duchene you also introduce serious cap problems. Because the other guys are coming up for deals and they'll be using Duchene as the bar. Domi can make the case that he's just as good and he's younger...

I'd do it if he was a true elite center but he's not. I don't think he's an upgrade on Domi and I think it just causes more problems than it fixes.

 

[blarneylad]

How would Domi feel about moving to the wing? He crushed it last year and now we move him? I think he'd be (deservedly) pissed.

And if you add Duchene you also introduce serious cap problems. Because the other guys are coming up for deals and they'll be using Duchene as the bar. Domi can make the case that he's just as good and he's younger...

I'd do it if he was a true elite center but he's not. I don't think he's an upgrade on Domi and I think it just causes more problems than it fixes.

Duchene is a goal scorer and face off winner. Two things the team could use.

Having a logjam at center would be a blessing for this team. Duchene-Drouin rock one line with Domi-Gallagher, Tatar-Kotkaniemi as main guys per line. Fill with Armia, Shaw, Poehling/Byron

Trade Danault for dman help

 

[Ozmodiar]

How would Domi feel about moving to the wing? He crushed it last year and now we move him? I think he'd be (deservedly) pissed.

And if you add Duchene you also introduce serious cap problems. Because the other guys are coming up for deals and they'll be using Duchene as the bar. Domi can make the case that he's just as good and he's younger...

I'd do it if he was a true elite center but he's not. I don't think he's an upgrade on Domi and I think it just causes more problems than it fixes.

Regarding Domi’s reaction to moving to wing ....
There’s 2 types of hockey players:
- one would answer the request with questions and concerns about usage.
- the other would say “whatever you want, coach”.

Domi strikes me as being the latter type.

Regarding setting the bar ...
First, Domi will be an RFA, without the leverage of a UFA. Even if he matches Duchene’s production, they won’t have to pay him quite as much.
Second, the market is set league-wide, not specific to a team. I’d be more concerned with what the Flyers just did.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Regarding Domi’s reaction to moving to wing ....
There’s 2 types of hockey players:
- one would answer the request with questions and concerns about usage.
- the other would say “whatever you want, coach”.

Domi strikes me as being the latter type.

Regarding setting the bar ...
First, Domi will be an RFA, without the leverage of a UFA. Even if he matches Duchene’s production, they won’t have to pay him quite as much.
Second, the market is set league-wide, not specific to a team. I’d be more concerned with what the Flyers just did.

It's not just Domi. It's Dannault and Gallagher, both of whom are coming to the end of their deals soon.

 

[Sorinth]

In the four years prior to last season Duchene averaged 55 points per 82 games.

That's the risk you take with signing Duchene, you might get a 55 point guy. If that happens and you are paying him 10m it kills our chances which aren't great to begin with. So how confident are you that Duchene will consistently put up 70?

 

[Kriss E]

In the four years prior to last season Duchene averaged 55 points per 82 games.

That's the risk you take with signing Duchene, you might get a 55 point guy. If that happens and you are paying him 10m it kills our chances which aren't great to begin with. So how confident are you that Duchene will consistently put up 70?

You know Duchene will likely hit that 55-60 pt mark again too, just a matter of hoping it doesn't happen when you're on a good year. You want the team to be clicking on all cylinders...so you hope Duchene has career type years when the rest of the team is fully on. You don't want him to be on fire when your team sucks like Ottawa...just wasted year.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

It's not just Domi. It's Dannault and Gallagher, both of whom are coming to the end of their deals soon.

Both of them don't deserve albatross contract . I would Trade danault this year and for Gallagher , idk but he's gonna be 30 when he hits ufa. I love him but I would never give him 7m for several years . Decisions need to be made this summer

 

[Naslund]

It would be a mistake to pay the 8-9 millions required to sign Duchene.

 

[hvac412]

Duchene is a goal scorer and face off winner. Two things the team could use.

Having a logjam at center would be a blessing for this team. Duchene-Drouin rock one line with Domi-Gallagher, Tatar-Kotkaniemi as main guys per line. Fill with Armia, Shaw, Poehling/Byron

Trade Danault for dman help

the problem with signing duchene at 10 mil. is it will have a domino effect on domi and etc.

 

[Milhouse40]

In the four years prior to last season Duchene averaged 55 points per 82 games.

That's the risk you take with signing Duchene, you might get a 55 point guy. If that happens and you are paying him 10m it kills our chances which aren't great to begin with. So how confident are you that Duchene will consistently put up 70?

And again….same were said exactly one year ago when we were talking about getting O'reilly:
- Just a 55-60 points center
- Won't move the needle
- Not a real first line center
- Good but not elite

Having said that, in the last 4 seasons he average, was on pace to 28 goals per season.
30 goals scorer twice in the last 4 years.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How would Domi feel about moving to the wing? He crushed it last year and now we move him? I think he'd be (deservedly) pissed.

And if you add Duchene you also introduce serious cap problems. Because the other guys are coming up for deals and they'll be using Duchene as the bar. Domi can make the case that he's just as good and he's younger...

I'd do it if he was a true elite center but he's not. I don't think he's an upgrade on Domi and I think it just causes more problems than it fixes.

I don't think Domi would be pissed if he played wing but his line mates were more talented. All talented players want to play with talent.

 

[Milhouse40]

It's not just Domi. It's Dannault and Gallagher, both of whom are coming to the end of their deals soon.

I don't think Habs' contract matter more than any other NHL contract when it's time to negotiate.
Eventually, place will have to be made for guys like Suzuki, Poehling and maybe Evans, Teasdale…..

 

[Sterling Archer]

How about we worry about winning first and worry about Molsons bank account second for once.

 

[Tighthead]

How about we worry about winning first and worry about Molsons bank account second for once.

People are concerned about salary cap management. Nobody cares about dividends.

No need to suggest that as a “worry” unless you can quote posts where people are worried about ownership’s rate of return.

 

[FrankMTL]

So does anybody think they'll buy out Alzner's contract this year, or do you think they'll wait till next year?

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

It would be a mistake to pay the 8-9 millions required to sign Duchene.

8M is more than fine, more than 9M is too much IMO for a player so unsteady

 

[Sterling Archer]

People are concerned about salary cap management. Nobody cares about dividends.

No need to suggest that as a “worry” unless you can quote posts where people are worried about ownership’s rate of return.

Worrying about the cap is idiotic on several levels. Teams who place cap worries above winning are bound to lose. I haven't seen a single team go bankrupt by being over the cap. At worst, you have a competitive team that may not win like 30 other teams and you may have to blow up the team eventually or shed periphery players to stay under the cap or blow it up and start from scratch and hope to get some very good high end picks. Everyone of these scenarios is better than stagnating and never being competitive because no one is bold or ballsy enough to take a real chance. Some work out, some don't, that's the game. If you're too afraid to play it, don't. One thing is players LOVE bold management who will do anything to win. That in and of itself is another advatage in attracting players to come play for you. Winning and the intense desire to win. We have too damn little of that.

But sure, we may have cap issues eventually, one day, maybe.

 

[Tighthead]

Worrying about the cap is idiotic on several levels. Teams who place cap worries above winning are bound to lose. I haven't seen a single team go bankrupt by being over the cap. At worst, you have a competitive team that may not win like 30 other teams and you may have to blow up the team eventually or shed periphery players to stay under the cap or blow it up and start from scratch and hope to get some very good high end picks. Everyone of these scenarios is better than stagnating and never being competitive because no one is bold or ballsy enough to take a real chance. Some work out, some don't, that's the game. If you're too afraid to play it, don't. One thing is players LOVE bold management who will do anything to win. That in and of itself is another advatage in attracting players to come play for you. Winning and the intense desire to win. We have too damn little of that.

But sure, we may have cap issues eventually, one day, maybe.

If worrying about the cap is idiotic, why didn’t you address that instead of countering a position that literally nobody is worried about?

You can’t go over the cap, so why is going bankrupt even a mention? Again, you argue against a position that literally nobody was making.

So when people said the Marceau signing would be problematic they were wrong, even though they are now proven right?

Anyone who thinks cap management is pointless is worth an ignore.

 

[Sterling Archer]

If worrying about the cap is idiotic, why didn’t you address that instead of countering a position that literally nobody is worried about?

You can’t go over the cap, so why is going bankrupt even a mention? Again, you argue against a position that literally nobody was making.

So when people said the Marceau signing would be problematic they were wrong, even though they are now proven right?

Anyone who thinks cap management is pointless is worth an ignore.

That's not my point in the least. You're either being intentionally obtuse or your not reading my posts correctly. We're in no position to worry about the cap at the moement and worrying that signing players now may cause cap problems in the future is what I said was idiotic, not cap management. Just about ever competitive team WILL invariably have cap issues. That's because good players have this crazy notion they should get paid. Ergo, having cap problems because we have a good competative team is a far more preferably outcome than having a ton of cap room for several years in a row and not making the palayoffs.

 

[Perrah]

Worrying about the cap is idiotic on several levels. Teams who place cap worries above winning are bound to lose. I haven't seen a single team go bankrupt by being over the cap. At worst, you have a competitive team that may not win like 30 other teams and you may have to blow up the team eventually or shed periphery players to stay under the cap or blow it up and start from scratch and hope to get some very good high end picks. Everyone of these scenarios is better than stagnating and never being competitive because no one is bold or ballsy enough to take a real chance. Some work out, some don't, that's the game. If you're too afraid to play it, don't. One thing is players LOVE bold management who will do anything to win. That in and of itself is another advatage in attracting players to come play for you. Winning and the intense desire to win. We have too damn little of that.

But sure, we may have cap issues eventually, one day, maybe.

Cap issues are real, if Duchene gets 10 mill per year from the habs. Throwing out strawman arguments like "going bankrupt" has nothing to do with cap management as any team on the brink of bankruptcy will have internal budgets anyways. Habs have 10.7 mill in free space for next season before signing Duchene. He doesnt put them over the hump without addressing the LHD situation or the back up goaltending. The next season (2020-21) the habs have 15-18 mill in space if they sign Duchene and will have to re-sign Domi, depth players and depth Dmen. Still not addressing the LHD situation and looking at what players are getting paid this year, Domi will get a substantial raise. Then the year after that (2021-22) you need to either re-sign or replace Tatar, Gallagher, Danault, Petry.

Alzner isnt going anywhere for 3 more years, shedding players for salary is an option but doesnt make you a better team and kind of defeats the purpose of trying to contend. Bolstering a contender sure load up and shed, a team that has missed the play offs 3 out of the past 4 years, makes no sense. Then you have the risk that Duchene comes in and only puts up 50-60 points.

 

[Kriss E]

Cap issues are real, if Duchene gets 10 mill per year from the habs. Throwing out strawman arguments like "going bankrupt" has nothing to do with cap management as any team on the brink of bankruptcy will have internal budgets anyways. Habs have 10.7 mill in free space for next season before signing Duchene. He doesnt put them over the hump without addressing the LHD situation or the back up goaltending. The next season (2020-21) the habs have 15-18 mill in space if they sign Duchene and will have to re-sign Domi, depth players and depth Dmen. Still not addressing the LHD situation and looking at what players are getting paid this year, Domi will get a substantial raise. Then the year after that (2021-22) you need to either re-sign or replace Tatar, Gallagher, Danault, Petry.

Alzner isnt going anywhere for 3 more years, shedding players for salary is an option but doesnt make you a better team and kind of defeats the purpose of trying to contend. Bolstering a contender sure load up and shed, a team that has missed the play offs 3 out of the past 4 years, makes no sense. Then you have the risk that Duchene comes in and only puts up 50-60 points.

Managing the cap is important in that you have a limit. That said, every team has a large enough amount available to build any winner they want.
Pretty much everyone will have bad contracts, the important part is to overpay for capable players.
What you don't want is pay a guy like Alzner who just ends up in the AHL...

 

[Sterling Archer]

Cap issues are real, if Duchene gets 10 mill per year from the habs. Throwing out strawman arguments like "going bankrupt" has nothing to do with cap management as any team on the brink of bankruptcy will have internal budgets anyways. Habs have 10.7 mill in free space for next season before signing Duchene. He doesnt put them over the hump without addressing the LHD situation or the back up goaltending. The next season (2020-21) the habs have 15-18 mill in space if they sign Duchene and will have to re-sign Domi, depth players and depth Dmen. Still not addressing the LHD situation and looking at what players are getting paid this year, Domi will get a substantial raise. Then the year after that (2021-22) you need to either re-sign or replace Tatar, Gallagher, Danault, Petry.

Alzner isnt going anywhere for 3 more years, shedding players for salary is an option but doesnt make you a better team and kind of defeats the purpose of trying to contend. Bolstering a contender sure load up and shed, a team that has missed the play offs 3 out of the past 4 years, makes no sense. Then you have the risk that Duchene comes in and only puts up 50-60 points.

Those are just excuses.

Your mistake is that you think their situation is static. Caps need to be managed at least if a team wishes to be competitive.

Alzner can be bought out, older players traded or not signed when replaced by younger players, not to mention the cap continually rises.

 

[Perrah]

Managing the cap is important in that you have a limit. That said, every team has a large enough amount available to build any winner they want.
Pretty much everyone will have bad contracts, the important part is to overpay for capable players.
What you don't want is pay a guy like Alzner who just ends up in the AHL...

I agree. Alzner takes away any flexibility to address both needs realistically until he is gone. Especially since the cap is lower than expected this year and the players are hating the escrow system.