Marc Bergevin: Offseason Summertime Love Edition

[Zorba]

You know, it's ironic that given we're in an MB thread most people say "results speak for themselves" in one form or another. MB may be 'working hard' or 'on the phones' or whatever nonsense but at end of the day the results speak for themselves.

Why not apply that approach to Kevin Hayes as well? Hayes eclipsed 20 goals once in his career. It's better than Danault for sure but yikes, this guy is a 20 goal scorer in the best of seasons and has never surpassed 50 points.

He's a pretty average player honestly. He can be big, fast, strong, smart, whatever but results speak for themselves don't they? I wouldn't even acquire him at a fair price, let alone the supposed price he's requesting. We have Byron, Shaw, Armia and others who can score 15-25 goals anyway. Why bother?

If he's worth that Gallagher is worth 10. Makes no sense.

His size is enticing as hell. Habs have little size up front
Hayes is a better player than the 3 you mentioned
UFAs get over paid. I hope we overpay for duchene. We need skill

 

[bsl]

Welcome to the 1% of people.
Thats ur opinion

Uh. Yeah ? And you can use Your instead of ur. It’s not 1997.

 

[the valiant effort]

7 years for a soft big man that’s hit 50 pts once and has trash playoff numbers? Lol...

Again, he won’t really be the reason the Flyers suck, but thank god the Habs had no chance here

 

[Kriss E]

Maybe because I’ve seen Habs win 12 cups and know the type of players they need to do that?

I'm not sure I'd want Hayes at that price but it's become quite comical seeing fans obsess over cap space to no end.
Maybe Hayes is overpaid, maybe it's by a whole lot, but one thing is for sure, You ain't gonna win a cup by passing up on players all the time.
The game isnt about who has the best cap hit guys. I mean...Hayes at 7M or Alzner at 4.5M...
Every team have bad cap hits.
At some point people need to realize having good players is more important than spending an extra million or two on some guys.

 

[sharks9]

I'm not sure I'd want Hayes at that price but it's become quite comical seeing fans obsess over cap space to no end.
Maybe Hayes is overpaid, maybe it's by a whole lot, but one thing is for sure, You ain't gonna win a cup by passing up on players all the time.
The game isnt about who has the best cap hit guys. I mean...Hayes at 7M or Alzner at 4.5M...
Every team have bad cap hits.
At some point people need to realize having good players is more important than spending an extra million or two on some guys.

Having good players is obviously more important than having cap space, but the point is you can't get those good players if you overpay mediocre players.

Karlsson's contract with SJ is fine because he's a star and they're going all in. Hayes' with Philly is bad because he's mediocre and is just taking up cap space for the next 7 years when they could possibly sign an actual star in that time.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Uh. Yeah ? And you can use Your instead of ur. It’s not 1997.

Ur funny

 

[Sorinth]

Then change that. Make Montreal a destination to go to. You are excusing a billionaire owner and millionaire manager. It’s ****ing unreal. You are such a downer.

Part of the job is selling people on the city/team. And it's not like he's working with nothing, Montreal has more going for it then a bunch of other places, the real issue is that ownership doesn't care about winning.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I'm not sure I'd want Hayes at that price but it's become quite comical seeing fans obsess over cap space to no end.
Maybe Hayes is overpaid, maybe it's by a whole lot, but one thing is for sure, You ain't gonna win a cup by passing up on players all the time.
The game isnt about who has the best cap hit guys. I mean...Hayes at 7M or Alzner at 4.5M...
Every team have bad cap hits.
At some point people need to realize having good players is more important than spending an extra million or two on some guys.

The problem isn’t overpaying for a couple guys.

The problem is overpaying for Hayes. Having Alzners contract issue doesn’t make Hayes’ any better.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

His size is enticing as hell. Habs have little size up front
Hayes is a better player than the 3 you mentioned
UFAs get over paid. I hope we overpay for duchene. We need skill

Hayes at 7.1 is like Duchene at 12.

Hayes may be better than them but not worth trouble at that price. Besides, like I said he can be big, strong, fast, etc but results speak for themselves.

 

[hvac412]

His size is enticing as hell. Habs have little size up front
Hayes is a better player than the 3 you mentioned
UFAs get over paid. I hope we overpay for duchene. We need skill

7.14 for hayes is insane.rangers committed grand theft on the trouba deal.

 

[hvac412]

See Hayes. Kevin. To the ****ing flyers. What’s your excuse for mb with him? You ever seen Philadelphia? It’s a **** hole. And the team is in worse shape than Habs right now. But yeah so difficult for Bergevin. LG is right. Stop excusing Bergevin.

7.14 x 7 for a 50 point point 20 goal scorer,no thanks .would you give a 24 yr old drouin that money?

 

[Kriss E]

The problem isn’t overpaying for a couple guys.

The problem is overpaying for Hayes. Having Alzners contract issue doesn’t make Hayes’ any better.

The point isn't about Alzner or Hayes, individually....pretty much every team has a bad contracts.
Get good players. If you overpay by a couple mil, it doesn't matter. You have about 80M to play with, nickel and diming over it is silly.

 

[Ozmodiar]

The problem isn’t overpaying for a couple guys.

The problem is overpaying for Hayes. Having Alzners contract issue doesn’t make Hayes’ any better.

The point isn't about Alzner or Hayes, individually....pretty much every team has a bad contracts.
Get good players. If you overpay by a couple mil, it doesn't matter. You have about 80M to play with, nickel and diming over it is silly.

Here's the most important thing about a free agent signing: that the player plays where you expect him to play.

The scouting has to be good enough to know where a player will slot in on the depth chart for a good portion of the contract. Teams run into problems a player isn't good enough to hold their spot in the lineup, forcing a team to pay someone else to do the job.

Overpaying a 3rd liner by a mil won't hurt very much, but if you have a top line contract playing on the 3rd line, it hurts.

If the Habs sign Duchene for 10M (x7), many will say it's an overpayment. I don't see that as a problem as long as they know he'll be the #1 center for the next 5 years - a decision which includes an assessment of where others (Domi and Kotka) fit on the depth chart.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The point isn't about Alzner or Hayes, individually....pretty much every team has a bad contracts.
Get good players. If you overpay by a couple mil, it doesn't matter. You have about 80M to play with, nickel and diming over it is silly.

Hayes is just a terrible signing.

Want to overpay Carey Price or Karlsson or Kane by a mil or two? No problem. They are elite players who will help you win games.

Hayes? Career best 55 point player with one twenty goal season to his name. That is horrific. He's a three to four million dollar player at the most. Worse, it throws everything on that team (and maybe the league) out of whack.

Wtf were these guys thinking?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If the Habs sign Duchene for 10M (x7), many will say it's an overpayment. I don't see that as a problem as long as they know he'll be the #1 center for the next 5 years - a decision which includes an assessment of where others (Domi and Kotka) fit on the depth chart.

It's a problem if we sign him.

Domi outproduced him last year at half the cost and he's got a contract coming up. Wouldn't be a stretch to see Duchene become our 2nd line center as soon as this year. You don't pay 10 mil for that.

Adding him at that money will f*** everything up on this team. Gallagher and Domi will ask for huge money if we did this.

 

[Kriss E]

Here's the most important thing about a free agent signing: that the player plays where you expect him to play.

The scouting has to be good enough to know where a player will slot in on the depth chart for a good portion of the contract. Teams run into problems a player isn't good enough to hold their spot in the lineup, forcing a team to pay someone else to do the job.

Overpaying a 3rd liner by a mil won't hurt very much, but if you have a top line contract playing on the 3rd line, it hurts.

If the Habs sign Duchene for 10M (x7), many will say it's an overpayment. I don't see that as a problem as long as they know he'll be the #1 center for the next 5 years - a decision which includes an assessment of where others (Domi and Kotka) fit on the depth chart.

Again, I dont think you can look at an individual contract. Alzner is maybe on one of the worst deals in the league as hes making 4.5 for some AHL time...yet, we still had like 10M of free space over last 2 seasons.
Now if you overpay Alzner by 4.5..Hayes by 2M...Duchene by 2M...it all starts to add up.
In the end, you ain't gonna win shit if you keep passing up on talent becomes it comes at an expensive price. It's all about overpaying for the right ones.

 

[Kriss E]

Hayes is just a terrible signing.

Want to overpay Carey Price or Karlsson or Kane by a mil or two? No problem. They are elite players who will help you win games.

Hayes? Career best 55 point player with one twenty goal season to his name. That is horrific. He's a three to four million dollar player at the most. Worse, it throws everything on that team (and maybe the league) out of whack.

Wtf were these guys thinking?

No doubt. Weird signing.

 

[Ozmodiar]

It's a problem if we sign him.

Domi outproduced him last year at half the cost and he's got a contract coming up. Wouldn't be a stretch to see Duchene become our 2nd line center as soon as this year. You don't pay 10 mil for that.

Adding him at that money will **** everything up on this team. Gallagher and Domi will ask for huge money if we did this.

That's my point, isn't it? That the 10M is only worth it if they know he'll be the #1. (BTW, if they sign him, there's no way he'll be the #2 as early as this year. Domi will move to wing, and Kotka and Danault will be 2 & 3)

They won't sign him if they see him as a 2nd line center. That's why the scouting has to be spot on.

Can Duchene get the job done as a #1 (face-offs, production, 2-way play)?
Is Domi more suited to the wing?
Is Kotka likely to be a #2, long-term?

If the answers are 'yes, yes, yes', then the ~ 1.5 overpayment isn't so bad for such a key player. The important thing is - as I wrote above - is that he slots in where expected.

 

[waffledave]

Hayes deal is expensive but I have a feeling that $7mil is going to be the new $4mil as far as contracts go.

As a player, we have nothing like him. We absolutely could have used this guy, he is a piece sorely missing on this team since a very long time.

Hayes would make a lot of space for Drouin. We absolutely need a big guy to make room for our team of midgets. Drouin sucked last year because he is easy to shut down, you just take away his space and he can't do anything. Buy pair him with a big center who can make room for him, give him more time and space to move around and do his thing, you'll see a totally different player.

It isn't going to happen with Danaults and Byrons and them.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Again, I dont think you can look at an individual contract. Alzner is maybe on one of the worst deals in the league as hes making 4.5 for some AHL time...yet, we still had like 10M of free space over last 2 seasons.
Now if you overpay Alzner by 4.5..Hayes by 2M...Duchene by 2M...it all starts to add up.
In the end, you ain't gonna win **** if you keep passing up on talent becomes it comes at an expensive price. It's all about overpaying for the right ones.

That is pretty much my point - that a little overpayment is okay if you pick the right ones. The contracts that hurt are the ones where the scouting is wrong, and they sign players who slide on the depth chart. Alzner slid all the way to the AHL. Look at the buyout candidates around the league. Most have slid on the depth chart. They aren't key contributors, but just a little overpaid.

 

[Sorinth]

The point isn't about Alzner or Hayes, individually....pretty much every team has a bad contracts.
Get good players. If you overpay by a couple mil, it doesn't matter. You have about 80M to play with, nickel and diming over it is silly.

Although I agree with the sentiment, you can't afford to overpay the non-stars or you will run out of money and still not have enough talent to compete. So for example, there should've been no issue with overpaying Radulov a little, it's when you are overpaying the depth, middle guys that it becomes a problem. But Hayes, no you shouldn't be overpaying for him unless you are already a contender.

 

[Kriss E]

Although I agree with the sentiment, you can't afford to overpay the non-stars or you will run out of money and still not have enough talent to compete. So for example, there should've been no issue with overpaying Radulov a little, it's when you are overpaying the depth, middle guys that it becomes a problem. But Hayes, no you shouldn't be overpaying for him unless you are already a contender.

Ya..it's definitely about picking who to overpay. I just find it funny how on this board you have people who go with:
Don't overpay Patches.
Don't overpay Petry.
Don't overpay Price.
Don't overpay Radulov.
Don't overpay Subban.
Don't overpay Duchene.

I mean, a few years back, you had people saying they wouldn't take Ovechkin because of his contract.

I know not one person will agree with everyone of these statements, but I just find it amusing how people make way too much of a thing over cap space.

 

[waffledave]

Ya..it's definitely about picking who to overpay. I just find it funny how on this board you have people who go with:
Don't overpay Patches.
Don't overpay Petry.
Don't overpay Price.
Don't overpay Radulov.
Don't overpay Subban.
Don't overpay Duchene.

I mean, a few years back, you had people saying they wouldn't take Ovechkin because of his contract.

I know not one person will agree with everyone of these statements, but I just find it amusing how people make way too much of a thing over cap space.

These same people will say Bergevin is a genius for signing depth guys to $1-3 million contracts because "it's such a small amount, it barely affects the cap, if they suck we can send them down and it's really just a small cap hit then"... Yet when your team has like 6-8 of these guys it adds up.

 

[hvac412]

Hayes is just a terrible signing.

Want to overpay Carey Price or Karlsson or Kane by a mil or two? No problem. They are elite players who will help you win games.

Hayes? Career best 55 point player with one twenty goal season to his name. That is horrific. He's a three to four million dollar player at the most. Worse, it throws everything on that team (and maybe the league) out of whack.

Wtf were these guys thinking?

Paul holmgren is a really bad gm.

 

[OnTheRun]

Congratulations Marc, you snapped your 4 years streak. You got a vote this year!

General Manager of the Year voting
Pts. (1st-2nd-3rd)
1. Don Sweeney, BOS 80 (8-11-7)
2. Doug Armstrong, STL 63 (8-6-5)
3. Don Waddell, CAR 59 (9-3-5)
4. Doug Wilson, SJS 58 (5-9-6)
5. Lou Lamoriello, NYI 56 (8-4-4)
6. Brad Treliving, CGY 22 (2-3-3)
7. Joe Sakic, COL 14 (1-2-3)
8. Jarmo Kekalainen, CBJ 7 (0-1-4)
9. Jim Nill, DAL 6 (0-1-3)
10. George McPhee, VGK 3 (0-1-0)
11. Marc Bergevin, MTL 1 (0-0-1)