Marc Bergevin: 5 stages of grief edition

[Captain Mountain]

I think letting Markov go at the age of 39 (when the next playoffs start) was not a bad move. If Markov was looking for 2 years at $6M per year, what was he asking for one year? $7M? If that was the case, I think it's time we move on sooner rather than later.

As for Radulov. That is hard to say. Was he interested in signing with the Habs for the same deal he got in Dallas? Who knows. Personally, I think Bergevin work hard to get him back but was not willing to overpay for a player who lost steam as the season went along and is in his decline years. Throwing money at players in decline years works out how much? The success rate is not good.

We are smarter to use our cap space on a younger player to add to our core. Lets see who that will be... It's going to take time and more patience unfortunately

I don't think you can use that argument when in the same off-season he signed Alzner for 5 years.

 

[lamp9post]

I think letting Markov go at the age of 39 (when the next playoffs start) was not a bad move. If Markov was looking for 2 years at $6M per year, what was he asking for one year? $7M? If that was the case, I think it's time we move on sooner rather than later.

As for Radulov. That is hard to say. Was he interested in signing with the Habs for the same deal he got in Dallas? Who knows. Personally, I think Bergevin work hard to get him back but was not willing to overpay for a player who lost steam as the season went along and is in his decline years. Throwing money at players in decline years works out how much? The success rate is not good.

We are smarter to use our cap space on a younger player to add to our core. Lets see who that will be... It's going to take time and more patience unfortunately

I admire your blue-sky thinking, but young, core players are not available for just cap space and we have very few trade chips. The only way this could work is if a Kessel-like situation emerges and a rebuilding team is looking to rid themselves of a good player that comes with a long-term contract.

I will say that it is very strange that we're holding this much cap-space with everyone signed this late into August. The Habs have always spent near the cap since it was first implemented and this is the first time I remember having this much space this late in the game.

 

[VladTheLimpWhaler]

I think letting Markov go at the age of 39 (when the next playoffs start) was not a bad move. If Markov was looking for 2 years at $6M per year, what was he asking for one year? $7M? If that was the case, I think it's time we move on sooner rather than later.

As for Radulov. That is hard to say. Was he interested in signing with the Habs for the same deal he got in Dallas? Who knows. Personally, I think Bergevin work hard to get him back but was not willing to overpay for a player who lost steam as the season went along and is in his decline years. Throwing money at players in decline years works out how much? The success rate is not good.

We are smarter to use our cap space on a younger player to add to our core. Lets see who that will be... It's going to take time and more patience unfortunately

You are absolutely right and this is a great post. Bergevin made the right call on both Markov and Radulov. Like you, I think he tried hard to get Radulov, but didn't want to overpay or over-commit to a long term deal, and Radulov chose to walk, that's not on Bergevin. In fact, if Bergevin had signed Radulov and Markov to the deals they wanted, people would complain about him throwing money at aging players in decline. Isn't that what people often criticize him for? That he'd rather sign aging players and mediocre players like Weise and give them ice time instead of developing young players? Well, now he is actually leaving some room on the team, which will give young players more of a chance to earn a roster spot. It's also a smart move to start the season with a lot of cap space, and take advantage of it halfway through the season or at the deadline when there might be a few teams desperate for a trade, or when the value of certain players would be lower. Why give up a lot now in a trade, when you could get the same player for less later?

The ironic thing is that this thread is titled the "5 stages of grief" edition. But Bergevin's critics actually go through the 5 stages of grief every time Bergevin does something good. They can't stand the idea that Bergevin actually did something right, because that would mean he might not be fired any time soon, and so they all go through the denial, anger, etc. Except they never reach the final stage of acceptance. It's weird how backwards so many "fans" on this board are - wanting for the team to do badly so that management would be fired, wanting management to make bad moves so that they are more likely to be fired. And when Bergevin actually does something good, THAT"s the thing that causes them to go into denial. How backwards and inside-out is that?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think you can use that argument when in the same off-season he signed Alzner for 5 years.

Yeah I can use this argument and I'll tell you why. Alzner signed for 5 years at $4.625M AAV (age 29-33). We needed more help on LD than we did on RW at that point in time. Nobody knows what Radulov was asking for with the Habs but it was at least $6.25M for 5 years (Age 31-35).

Two different contracts addressing separate needs.

 

[sampollock]

I know one thing, if MB thinks he will wait to the TradeDeadline, that is way to late to use the 8 mill, way too late

 

[Habs Halifax]

I admire your blue-sky thinking, but young, core players are not available for just cap space and we have very few trade chips. The only way this could work is if a Kessel-like situation emerges and a rebuilding team is looking to rid themselves of a good player that comes with a long-term contract.

I will say that it is very strange that we're holding this much cap-space with everyone signed this late into August. The Habs have always spent near the cap since it was first implemented and this is the first time I remember having this much space this late in the game.

Good points but what's your solution? Throw money at Radulov and lose Patch in 2 years? We are sure to win a cup in those 2 years right? So it would be worth it? NOPE!

We were patient with not trading Sergachev (for Duchene) and we got Drouin who is not even in his prime years yet. We need to be patient a bit more. Opportunities will come and we do have pieces and picks we can trade. We may not get another Drouin type but we can acquire guys who can help our team!

I actually think we are stronger (as a TEAM) heading into this season vs last season. We have less question marks and lots of cap space. This is not reason to panic about the direction of the team. Yeah, we have holes. Pretty much every team does!

 

[Sorinth]

I think letting Markov go at the age of 39 (when the next playoffs start) was not a bad move. If Markov was looking for 2 years at $6M per year, what was he asking for one year? $7M? If that was the case, I think it's time we move on sooner rather than later.

As for Radulov. That is hard to say. Was he interested in signing with the Habs for the same deal he got in Dallas? Who knows. Personally, I think Bergevin work hard to get him back but was not willing to overpay for a player who lost steam as the season went along and is in his decline years. Throwing money at players in decline years works out how much? The success rate is not good.

We are smarter to use our cap space on a younger player to add to our core. Lets see who that will be... It's going to take time and more patience unfortunately

Letting him go could've been the right move if we actually went out and made the team better but we didn't. Instead we replaced him a busted up Alzner and a "when the playoffs start" 40 year old Streit.

Also it's highly unlikely Markov was asking for 7m. He probably wanted the 5.75m he's had for the past 10+ years. And even then given how much he wanted to stay in Montreal he probably was even willing to take less, just not as low as whatever low-ball offer Bergevin made.

 

[TheBlindFan]

I don't think you can use that argument when in the same off-season he signed Alzner for 5 years.

Is Alzner over 30Y no 28Y? Yes he played hurt last year but he played all regular season games. He is a legitimate top 4 and that what you pay for a top 4.

He is a bit high for now, but that's because he was UFA with a 5y term, form 28Y to 33Y. Now he is 55th in term of the cap hit, check in 3 years for fun... He will be something like stray on the top3-4 range.

He will give us more then Beaulieu & Emelin. I know people are stilll high on Beaulieu, but put there a reason why he start to be bench and was left not protected. That guy have talent, but not a pro level dedictation fro the sport.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I know one thing, if MB thinks he will wait to the TradeDeadline, that is way to late to use the 8 mill, way too late

Why? Why do we feel the need to make desperate moves now? Patience pays off more often than not. Mark my words, We will be involved in a trade before December. We will first evaluate our new roster and then also wait to see some other teams change their priories. We will be prepared to take advantage. That is key!

 

[jaffy27]

Where were those teams the last 4-5 years anyway..

Sitting at the bottom of the league collecting high draft picks, some have been doing it for even longer.

Can't wait to see how the Leafs are gonna do once one of their stars gets hurt and misses 2 months of hockey.

 

[jaffy27]

Why? Why do we feel the need to make desperate moves now? Patience pays off more often than not. Mark my words, We will be involved in a trade before December. We will first evaluate our new roster and then also wait to see some other teams change their priories. We will be prepared to take advantage. That is key!

It's called a plan and Bergevin has one....I know it goes against the grain in these parts, but that's what it is

 

[Habs Halifax]

Letting him go could've been the right move if we actually went out and made the team better but we didn't. Instead we replaced him a busted up Alzner and a "when the playoffs start" 40 year old Streit.

Also it's highly unlikely Markov was asking for 7m. He probably wanted the 5.75m he's had for the past 10+ years. And even then given how much he wanted to stay in Montreal he probably was even willing to take less, just not as low as whatever low-ball offer Bergevin made.

What did Markov do in the playoffs? 3pts in his last 18 games dating back to when he was age 36. Alzner will be fine. We just can't compare him to Markov as he brings a different game and he is much younger and will not run out of gas sooner

 

[Bryson]

Good points but what's your solution? Throw money at Radulov and lose Patch in 2 years? We are sure to win a cup in those 2 years right? So it would be worth it? NOPE!

We were patient with not trading Sergachev (for Duchene) and we got Drouin who is not even in his prime years yet. We need to be patient a bit more. Opportunities will come and we do have pieces and picks we can trade. We may not get another Drouin type but we can acquire guys who can help our team!

I actually think we are stronger (as a TEAM) heading into this season vs last season. We have less question marks and lots of cap space. This is not reason to panic about the direction of the team. Yeah, we have holes. Pretty much every team does!

WHO CARES ABOUT PACIORETTY!! You don't want to sign Radulov at at 31 because he's too old but you're worried about signing Pacioretty who will be 31 in 2 years. You make no ****ing sense man! Pacioretty 1 point in 6 games in the PO. Radulov 7 points in 6 games in the PO. I say again **** PACIORETTY!! Screw Bergevin and all the peope who support this mediocrity. ****ing clown show trading away and losing our best players year after year.

 

[DangerDave]

Sure, he had good POs.

Sure, and if that's all the thought process you want to put into it, then that's your prerogative.
But at the end of the day, the Preds felt Subban was a better fit for the style of game they were pursuing, and they went to the Finals. You can spin around in any direction you want but those are the facts.

As for Weber here, I have repeated in the past few posts how I don't think Subban would have changed anything if he were here instead of Weber during the last POs.
So as I said, this isn't a Weber vs Subban discussion. This is simply giving credit to the Preds for getting a player they found would help them more, and it lead to their best finish in history.

Little correction as you know, but we didn't make the finals with Cammy, we went to the ECF.
That said, again, Bergevin went after Weber because he thought he's a better fit for our team and that it would help guys like Patches. It didn't quite work out that way.
That's not Weber's fault. It doesn't mean he didn't have good POs, he did.

It seems we're on the same page here. How did this argument start again?

 

[jaffy27]

WHO CARES ABOUT PACIORETTY!! You don't want to sign Radulov at at 31 because he's too old but you're worried about signing Pacioretty who will be 31 in 2 years. You make no ****ing sense man! Pacioretty 1 point in 6 games in the PO. Radulov 7 points in 6 games in the PO. I say again **** PACIORETTY!! Screw Bergevin and all the peope who support this mediocrity. ****ing clown show trading away and losing our best players year after year.

Tranquilo tranquilo......one of the last "Inherited" pieces to go, then it'll be a Bergevin team

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's called a plan and Bergevin has one....I know it goes against the grain in these parts, but that's what it is

I'm not sure Bergevin's plan was to lose both Markov and Radulov (hence the dog's loyalty comment) but I'm happy he is remaining patient. IMO, he is doing a very good job balancing the future and present. I think our plan is to wait and see what our current roster does in the first few months under Julien. Then we decide what holes we want to try to address via trade. If Galchenyuk proves himself to be a center (or even Drouin), then we have one less hole to fill and maybe we can find someone to play with Weber and works with him well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

WHO CARES ABOUT PACIORETTY!! You don't want to sign Radulov at at 31 because he's too old but you're worried about signing Pacioretty who will be 31 in 2 years. You make no ****ing sense man! Pacioretty 1 point in 6 games in the PO. Radulov 7 points in 6 games in the PO. I say again **** PACIORETTY!! Screw Bergevin and all the peope who support this mediocrity. ****ing clown show trading away and losing our best players year after year.

Colist... Relax there eh.

BTW... A lot of people care about Patch. He's been great for us. This one what I mean about throwing people under the bus because your frustrated. Prime example.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sitting at the bottom of the league collecting high draft picks, some have been doing it for even longer.

Can't wait to see how the Leafs are gonna do once one of their stars gets hurt and misses 2 months of hockey.

Leafs have expectations now. They have a great group of forwards but watch the media/fans turn on them if they just barely make the playoffs again. They won't be catching anybody by surprise anymore. You are so right... Injuries happen and that's where depth comes in.

 

[Price is Wright]

Tranquilo tranquilo......one of the last "Inherited" pieces to go, then it'll be a Bergevin team

Honestly if there was a core piece that needed to be traded it's Pacioretty. After 11-12 we held onto him because he was the best left winger but could have got a great young centre for him. Our last chance to do that is pretty much this summer. Right now doesn't look like it'll happen, even with Lehkonen and Byron for depth and Galchenyuk/Drouin both able to play the spot as well. Move Pacioretty for a centre, avoid having to sign him to a dumb deal in two years, perfect world.

Instead we are heading down the path to sign him in two years to an eight year deal, until the team turns into the Vancouver Canucks. Exciting stuff. You gotta know when to hold em, know when to trade em..m

 

[jaffy27]

Honestly if there was a core piece that needed to be traded it's Pacioretty. After 11-12 we held onto him because he was the best left winger but could have got a great young centre for him. Our last chance to do that is pretty much this summer. Right now doesn't look like it'll happen, even with Lehkonen and Byron for depth and Galchenyuk/Drouin both able to play the spot as well. Move Pacioretty for a centre, avoid having to sign him to a dumb deal in two years, perfect world.

Instead we are heading down the path to sign him in two years to an eight year deal, until the team turns into the Vancouver Canucks. Exciting stuff. You gotta know when to hold em, know when to trade em..m

I would do this no problem, we need a centre or we'll never get passed the 3rd round

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I fly them for a living (767-300ER)

The 87 is very cool, redundant to the nines, beautiful glass flight deck, built in EFB, very wide screens, it's a real dream boat.

Anyways, back to hockey

Just heard Rick Green on TSN690 endorses the Weber aquisition, says it should've been done a long time ago (this is not a debate on the trade and I will not be lured into one)

Go to the preds board and ask them if they'd trade Subban for Weber. The majority will answer you "hell no!".

 

[TheBlindFan]

other GMs do not tell straight out lies though

MB vowed PK would not be traded, then he traded him,

MB vowed he was going to build through the draft, he then trades draft picks AWAY,

MB vowed he will not sell or trade the future for today, then he goes and trades our best prospect for "today"

i could go on and on, bottom line is you can not trust one word out of his mouth,

GM don't share there plan in media, can lie, and even they can change idea when stuff change. That is call reality

PK Trade, MB demand your high, he was listening. So he did not lie. Maybe he though of Weber to high compare of PK. They are very different put almost equal. Stilll like that Trade. Do people remember what he was asking from EDM for Subban? Draisaitl (very young Top 5 center in NHL), 1rst pick (4th) (Jesse Puljujarvi) and a young def. Rumor was that if Pierre-Luc Dubois was still available, that trade would have been done.

Never trade a first round pick. Check the success going after the 1 first round...

That the biggest joke ever, Drouin for Serge..., 3rd pick for and 9pick... 22 young proven 51 pts, for a great prospect. In what world it's a problem... Trade the young for now... Serge is just a prospect, Drouin had 51 pts at 22y (that top 6 production).

Bottom line, Yes Bergevin does give us all the information but men... WHY WOULD HE? I don't get it. Are we part of the manager with private info? No. He give enough for me.

I would have critic MB for signig Markov 2Y 6M, I dislike is offer to Radu 6.25 for 5Y, to long, to much.

 

[scrubadam]

Letting him go could've been the right move if we actually went out and made the team better but we didn't. Instead we replaced him a busted up Alzner and a "when the playoffs start" 40 year old Streit.

Also it's highly unlikely Markov was asking for 7m. He probably wanted the 5.75m he's had for the past 10+ years. And even then given how much he wanted to stay in Montreal he probably was even willing to take less, just not as low as whatever low-ball offer Bergevin made.

Well rumor had it Markov wanted 6 x 2. Then if he gave up on term why would he also give up on money?

Its easier to believe MB would lowball Markov when he has almost no history of lowballing except for PK 5 years ago if you even consider a standard bridge contract a lowball. Outside of that 1 contract who has he lowballed? I have asked before and no one has told me. Drouin? Price? Radu x 2? Markov 3 years ago? Alzner? Shaw? Petry? Lucic or Williams (didn't sign but rumors said we had more $$$ on the table), Pleks? Emelin? DD?

Now I still don't understand why if Markov wanted to come back for 1 year and MB had cap space he didn't give it to Markov. Unlike most I don't think its because MB is incompetent or vindictive. Personally I think he thinks he can use that cap space to get another impact player and wanted Markov to wait to see who he gets and who he moves out to make Markov + ??? work in his cap.

Also I think there is more to it then that. Why did Molson hold a co conference call for a guy who is going to the KHL? This wasn't a normal player leaving the team. Habs didn't host a call for Radu when he signed in Dallas. Even PK being traded no call. Maybe the order came down from Molson? Just seems really odd to me.

 

[Bryson]

Colist... Relax there eh.

BTW... A lot of people care about Patch. He's been great for us. This one what I mean about throwing people under the bus because your frustrated. Prime example.

A lot of people care about Patch? You mean the same way a lot of people cared about Subban? You didn't mind trading him right? You win the stanley cup by prioritizing the best players. With bergevin he prioritizes bottom line players and grinders first and talented players come second so I don't see how any one can take this GM seriously. HE DOESN"T WANT TO WIN A STANLEY CUP!

Radulov is better than Pacioretty and Markov is better than Alzner. You're worried about two years from now? Two years is a long time. That's TWO chances at winning the stanley cup. Who knows maybe Price gets injured in future(not the first time) and we are forced to rebuild. You can't keep brushing off the present in hopes of the future if the correct measures to win are not being taken in the present.

This perfect player that you and 417 are waiting for that is young, will cost the team peanuts and score 100 points doesn't exist. At best these players are drafted and there are only really 2-3 of them in the league. At best the rest of the teams will have to make due with what is available. Not believe that magic pills will solve their problems.

 

[scrubadam]

Leafs have expectations now. They have a great group of forwards but watch the media/fans turn on them if they just barely make the playoffs again. They won't be catching anybody by surprise anymore. You are so right... Injuries happen and that's where depth comes in.

Leafs will need to worry about their cap very soon. Young players are out for blood these days.

Matthews is going to ask for 13 or more. He jumped to Zurich to make $$$ in his draft year rather than play JR. No way he isn't going to squeeze the "richest" team in the league for as much money as he can. Does he go full hog and ask for the max? I think its 20% of the cap if I am not mistaken.

Marner and Nylander will fall into place and want the big coin as well. McD and Drai will have nothing on the leafs kids.

In the end its a good problem to have, to have so good talent you have to pay up but Lou is going to have his work cut out for him a lot sooner than he thinks.