Marc Bergevin: 5 stages of grief edition

[Kriss E]

Until that new GM fails to win a Cup in his first 2yrs as GM

Then it's off with his head too I suppose

It's been 6 summers, not 2 years, but hey, semantics right?

 

[aresknights]

Can't wait to see what Phil Housley does with Beaulieu. Got a feeling he's gonna be great under him and everyone will make their excuses. "Well we didn't have a D coach like Housley"

We will see. If it works out. Good on him. As I said I hope he does well. If he's matured, buys in, takes advice, understands the game better.....awesome.

But.....If he doesn't will detractors admit it wasn't SL, MT, CJ, MB, his last jr coach, his agent, trainer, advisors, teammates and everyone else who has helped along the way?

 

[aresknights]

The criticism of what MB is doing from the non MB fans have pretty much remained the same throughout. The few still left here defending MB though will soon only have the color of his suit as the reason they think he's doing a great job.

I've given up trying to figure out why some still defend MB so staunchly but whatever floats their boat I guess. I just try to avoid it as much as I can at this point.

Who is saying hes done a "great" job lol. The list would be short but carry on.

 

[Kriss E]

Saying anything like that towards anybody is not right in my books. Everybody has qualities they bring to what they choose to do. Now, I do believe we needed a change in our AHL coach. It was just the right time to make a change IMO. Bergevin was in error for not letting go MT after the 2015-2016 season and I think he should of let Sly go this season as well.

But why? If we are just now noticing the influence of Sly because it takes time, and you think we have a lot of great up and coming prospects, why in the hell would you want a change?? You are completely inconsistent here.

I guess I have an issue with throwing Sly under the bus because we had 8 top 100 picks for him to work with. He was given a short stick back in 2012 and our prospect pool (with Bergevin) is only now starting to take shape. It takes time to recover from a very bad 4 year span. I just don't think it's fair to put all this failed development on one coach when our prospect pool was not very good!

It's one thing to ask for a change. It's another thing to call a person names and throw them under the bus and create this narrative that they are a bad person in every way.

If you weren't too busy just trying to defend this management all the time you would have noticed that the vast majority of posters who say development has been a problem for us, also say drafting needs to be improved.
But hey, you can't notice that when your head is too far up management's ass.
Take it out of there for a bit, breath, it'll do you some good.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This thread makes me think we're heading towards a Montreal Canadiens civil war.

The anger is palpable.

People are free to have a civil war on these boards.

Just... you know, keep it civil.

 

[aresknights]

Developing players at age 25...

At this stage Beau is probably all he'll ever be. The damage has been done with Galchenyuk as well. Neither are every going to be the players they could've been.

With Beau, I'm fully prepared to admit that I probably overestimated how good he'd be. But for him to have not become at least a solid 2nd pairing guy is disappointing to say the least. I doubt that he wouldn't have been a lot better if we'd had say... Larry Robinson working with him.

I don't expect him to set the world on fire going forward. But I hope he establishes himself as the solid blueliner I think he should be.

Him being from my area, following his progression from minor hockey, I never thought he'd develop into a 2nd pairing guy at the pro level. I was hopeful (after MTL drafted him) that he'd exceed my expectations, become a solid 5/6 guy (maybe #4) and help out on a PP unit, show some offensive flash ect....
If he has matured n the light bulb goes off he can contribute at this level.

 

[Tighthead]

What? Doug Murray was decent and very smart?
My god this board has completely lost its mind.

He invented a special beer tap.

 

[Sorinth]

your right I am pissing and moaning about all the constant pissing and moaning.


And you are saying we didn't give him enough opportunity to thrive? We didn't go ahead with the Idea to try him out on the top pair with Weber along side because he had a very strong pre-season? We gave a 24 year old an opportunity on our top pair, to play against top players while watching and learning from our top Dman. That is the exact situation where a player should feel "He has the coaches trust and the organizations confidence" as you hear them say so often. Only problem is he blew it with inconsistent and too often reckless play. He showed the exact same ups and downs of the previous campaign, extra confidence and feeling important didn't help, an increased role only exposed him more. What should they have done more to make him feel like an integral part of the D-core last season, made him a part time Defense Coach? Perhaps hire a special psychologist on the bench for him in between shifts?


In what world does being given a top spot on a silver platter, playing with the best player we have to offer on defense, with every hope in the world that you can succeed, NOT a good enough leap of faith towards a young player? Sometimes players just don't reach their potential, it happens all the time, But there is a fine line between making excuses for them all the time and realizing that reality might just be the case here. What more should we have done oh wise non-complaining one?

In the world that as soon as you make a mistake you are benched, on the bottom pair, or earlier in his career back in the AHL.

My comments aren't based solely on last year, but all the years preceding it. The constant yo-yo-ing between the NHL and AHL, getting 25min one game and 10 the next, playing Bouillon over him on the PP, the benchings after every mistake, etc... All these things hurt more then they helped Beaulieu's development. And that's just the obvious stuff we can see as a fan. How much did they work with him to actually improve his defensive coverage, his gap control, his awareness? I'm sure some of the blame lies with him, he's always seemed a little dense but everything we've seen from Therrien and Lefevre also show they are terrible teachers. Yelling at someone or benching them might get them to work "harder" but Beaulieu's issue was he needed to work smarter.

Honestly I don't see throwing him on the top-pair with Weber as some great opportunity, I see it as putting someone in way over their head, and when they predictably fail coming down on them with the hammer. It's was the same with Galchenyuk, they would put him as center with Pacioretty and as soon as he stumbled (Which was bound to happen) instead of letting him work throughout it was back to being a winger. If you are going to give a young player that kind of "opportunity" you can't pull the plug as soon as there's trouble you let them work through it. But the better path is to put them in situations where they will succeed and gradually increase the responsibility/role.

 

[Belial]

In the world that as soon as you make a mistake you are benched, on the bottom pair, or earlier in his career back in the AHL.

My comments aren't based solely on last year, but all the years preceding it. The constant yo-yo-ing between the NHL and AHL, getting 25min one game and 10 the next, playing Bouillon over him on the PP, the benchings after every mistake, etc... All these things hurt more then they helped Beaulieu's development. And that's just the obvious stuff we can see as a fan. How much did they work with him to actually improve his defensive coverage, his gap control, his awareness? I'm sure some of the blame lies with him, he's always seemed a little dense but everything we've seen from Therrien and Lefevre also show they are terrible teachers. Yelling at someone or benching them might get them to work "harder" but Beaulieu's issue was he needed to work smarter.

Honestly I don't see throwing him on the top-pair with Weber as some great opportunity, I see it as putting someone in way over their head, and when they predictably fail coming down on them with the hammer. It's was the same with Galchenyuk, they would put him as center with Pacioretty and as soon as he stumbled (Which was bound to happen) instead of letting him work throughout it was back to being a winger. If you are going to give a young player that kind of "opportunity" you can't pull the plug as soon as there's trouble you let them work through it. But the better path is to put them in situations where they will succeed and gradually increase the responsibility/role.

Can you guys stop already with the benching exaggeration? How many times did Therrien really benched someone in 5 years? 5 times ? And I don't even think he did it 5 times...

Beaulieu was making 5 mistakes a game and you're telling me he got benched after one mistake, let's get real...

 

[417]

It's been 6 summers, not 2 years, but hey, semantics right?

Oh pretty sure people have been calling for his head since at LEAST year 2.

 

[417]

It's like they don't think Carey Price is the reason this team stays above water when it clearly is.

In today's news...

Teams' best players help teams win.

More at 6

 

[417]

Win a cup, get a top 6 center, have a good prospect pool, improve defense, have an offense that can score in playoffs. Pretty much all equal fantasies and unrealistic expectations I suppose.

Exactly...

If not all of this accomplished by year 2.

Off with his head!

 

[DangerDave]

In today's news...

Teams' best players help teams win.

More at 6

Yeah seriously. The same sentence could be repeated for every team's top player. JT, Crosby, McD, Burns, Karlsson etc...

 

[417]

If that's the depth of your analysis I can introduce you to my 9 year old nephew and you guys can discuss things together. He loves checking the sports section to look at the standings, who has the most goals and assists...
You guys will get along great.

Hey if he can come with better and more refreshing takes than you do...

 

[aresknights]

In the world that as soon as you make a mistake you are benched, on the bottom pair, or earlier in his career back in the AHL.

Stopped reading your lengthy response ( which may or may not have added value) because this is just not factual and I couldn't go on.
NB was given a great op, and couldn't take adv. It wasn't one mistake and benched lol. But if it helps your narrative...

 

[417]

Yeah seriously. The same sentence could be repeated for every team's top player. JT, Crosby, McD, Burns, Karlsson etc...

Except it's even more pronounced for the Habs since Price is a goalie.

It's easier for those teams to replace 1 skater...even the Habs survived with some injuries to some key skaters last year, so much so they won the division and had 104pts.

But it's not quite the same with a goalie...and even worse when the goalie replacing Price was providing AHL-level goaltending.

The idea that the Habs are nothing without Carey Price, is again, another low-hanging fruit argument brought to you by the Habs HFboards Market Fresh employees.

 

[jaffy27]

Hey if he can come with better and more refreshing takes than you do...

......you are on a epic role, there's no stopping you

 

[Kriss E]

Oh pretty sure people have been calling for his head since at LEAST year 2.

No man!..They wanted him fired when he was still in Chicago, AT LEAST!

 

[Kriss E]

Hey if he can come with better and more refreshing takes than you do...

Kids always find adults complicated and boring, so not surprised you'd feel it refreshing.

 

[Kriss E]

Except it's even more pronounced for the Habs since Price is a goalie.

It's easier for those teams to replace 1 skater...even the Habs survived with some injuries to some key skaters last year, so much so they won the division and had 104pts.

But it's not quite the same with a goalie...and even worse when the goalie replacing Price was providing AHL-level goaltending.

The idea that the Habs are nothing without Carey Price, is again, another low-hanging fruit argument brought to you by the Habs HFboards Market Fresh employees.

We show how low hanging it was in 2016. Habs showed how great they were without Price. Was actually pretty impressive.

 

[Harry22]

In today's news...

Teams' best players help teams win.

More at 6

Yea but an all world goalie with no offense will not get you a Stanley Cup. And for the last four offseasons he hasn't found a permanent solution to fix the offense, hence this board has no more confidence in him.

 

[Harry22]

We show how low hanging it was in 2016. Habs showed how great they were without Price. Was actually pretty impressive.

Worst streak in franchise history.

And no the vast majority of this board didn't want him gone in year 2 when the team made it to the ECF.

- Some turned on him after the 2015 offseason when the 2015 playoffs showed a clear lack of offense and he didn't address it.
- Most turned on him in 2016 after it showed this team was mostly Carey Price, didn't handle the crisis very he'll, kept the coach even when the franchise was going through its worse stretch in franchise history. Again didn't fix the offense.
- Some turned on him this year after the offense was terrible once again and didn't get it better this offseason, didn't find a center, D depth is worse now. Etc.

Where's the progress to being a Cup contender? I don't see any. This is the same management that always says make the playoffs then anything can happen. Basically hoping their all world goaltender steals them a Cup.