Management Thread: Weisileaks

[AwesomeInTheory]

I just want to ask then, what conclusions would you come to when Gillis has been refused for so many jobs? If he's such a terrific guy, why hasn't he landed a front office job in the NHL?

Control. The big thing with Gillis is that he is looking for a level of control and freedom that you don't really see. It's why he originally agreed to the Canucks gig in the first place (as detailed in Ice Storm) and why I think he hasn't been hired subsequently. Looking at that document leak that came about, I don't think that sentiment has gone away.

This shit with "OBC" and whatever is overblown, in my opinion. Gillis wants a degree of freedom that ownership isn't comfortable granting, thus, he isn't interested in taking a gig.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Image from Canucks locker room during 2011 SCF post-series interviews

One recollection of the finals was Colin Campbell being temporarily suspended as the NHL Central Office Senior Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations as a result of the obvious conflict of interest related to his oversight on disciplinary and video replay decisions, because his Gregory Campbell was playing for Boston. Up until this point in the playoffs amazingly, the NHL allowed him to make decision on video replays and disciplinary decisions.

Colin Campbell currently serves as the Executive Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations for the NHL.

 

[4Twenty]

One recollection of the finals was Colin Campbell being temporarily suspended as the NHL Central Office Senior Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations as a result of the obvious conflict of interest related to his oversight on disciplinary and video replay decisions, because his Gregory Campbell was playing for Boston. Up until this point in the playoffs amazingly, the NHL allowed him to make decision on video replays and disciplinary decisions.

Colin Campbell currently serves as the Executive Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations for the NHL.

Game 7 against Tampa had ZERO penalties iirc.

 

[Hit the post]

Control. The big thing with Gillis is that he is looking for a level of control and freedom that you don't really see. It's why he originally agreed to the Canucks gig in the first place (as detailed in Ice Storm) and why I think he hasn't been hired subsequently. Looking at that document leak that came about, I don't think that sentiment has gone away.

This shit with "OBC" and whatever is overblown, in my opinion. Gillis wants a degree of freedom that ownership isn't comfortable granting, thus, he isn't interested in taking a gig.

I’d imagine so who any prospective GM for the Canucks worth anything would want as well.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

No competent GM will sign on without knowing who they report to. So hiring a President of Hockey Ops and replacing FA who has been acting in this position for years, is the Rub.

 

[EpochLink]

And never forget if the OBC hate/hated Gillis they also hated the Canucks when he was running the team, and that was the best run the franchise has ever had. We're now 7 years into Benning purgatory and the OBC just loves him and the Canucks now. Look at all the pat on the backs he gets and the calls for patience.

And this is we’re Gillis failed his tenure as GM, he never worked on his PR skills and communication. He didn’t fall in line with the OBC because he was an arrogant smug who did it his way, not their way. That probably rubbed a lot of people wrong, you know why Benning will get the benefit of the doubt? Because he has connections, he has people who were just like him who worked his way up in the NHL. He worked as a scout in Buffalo, got his assistant GM position in Boston with fellow OBC members Peter Chiarelli, Jeremy Jacobs, Cam Neely. Jim Benning isn’t stupid when it comes to his communication skills, you think once he’s fired in Vancouver he won’t get another job? I’m sure one of his OBC members will find him something.

You wonder why Nonis kept on getting jobs after Vancouver? Because he’s connected to OG OBC member Brian Burke...it won’t matter if Nonis was a sack of shit GM, he will still keep getting jobs.

Gillis got his law degree, became a player agent and then was handed the GM position in Vancouver. He was never a scout, never an assistant GM...just a player agent. Never worked from the ground up, was handed to him by Aquaman.

 

[archangel2]

3) pick location

Gillis got 6 drafts. 2 high picks (10 or higher).

Benning has had 7 drafts. 5 high picks.

And there is a reason why Benning got so many high picks. Gillis had no idea about development and player management. Gillis took over a team with maybe 3 hall of famers (Sedins and Luongo)--Benning got an old, tired team with very few prospects.

 

[4Twenty]

And there is a reason why Benning got so many high picks. Gillis had no idea about development and player management. Gillis took over a team with maybe 3 hall of famers (Sedins and Luongo)--Benning got an old, tired team with very few prospects.

Benning got lots of high picks because of moves he made.

Inherited #6.

Made the playoffs the next year.

Made moves to improve on 101 point team.

Ended up 3rd worst in the league after his own moves (Sutter, Sbisa, Prust).

Makes more moves to improve it (Eriksson, Gudbranson) finishes 2nd worst.

Why folks continue to but Gillis when we’ve got 7 years of execution culminating in this shocking reboot we’re currently watching.

I feel sad for people who still think this way.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Benning got lots of high picks because of moves he made.

Inherited #6.

Made the playoffs the next year.

Made moves to improve on 101 point team.

Ended up 3rd worst in the league after his own moves (Sutter, Sbisa, Prust).

Makes more moves to improve it (Eriksson, Gudbranson) finishes 2nd worst.

Why folks continue to but Gillis when we’ve got 7 years of execution culminating in this shocking reboot we’re currently watching.

I feel sad for people who still think this way.

I also seem to recall a few posters here bragging that this season, it was Benning's team. Some posters would say only Edler remained from previous regimes (leaving out Horvat for some inexplicable reason, although PoM loves playing the "Benning developed him!" card which is asinine). There were quite a few people smugly bragging about how improved our roster was and how Jim Benning had constructed this entire roster. Where are they now?

 

[EpochLink]

This shit with "OBC" and whatever is overblown, in my opinion. Gillis wants a degree of freedom that ownership isn't comfortable granting, thus, he isn't interested in taking a gig.

And that’s why so many people were so adamant that Gillis would’ve winded up in Seattle. But nope, the management group there wanted an established name so why not Ron Francis.

 

[4Twenty]

I also seem to recall a few posters here bragging that this season, it was Benning's team. Some posters would say only Edler remained from previous regimes (leaving out Horvat for some inexplicable reason, although PoM loves playing the "Benning developed him!" card which is asinine). There were quite a few people smugly bragging about how improved our roster was and how Jim Benning had constructed this entire roster. Where are they now?

Meh. I don’t care to go back. Those folks know what they’ve written.

The team is a lot worse than I think anyone expected.

I do find the but Gillis’ in 2021 especially sad. Like, try harder. That’s the weakest shit you can bring right now.

 

[Dab]

Game 7 against Tampa had ZERO penalties iirc.

That ECF game 7 was a f***ing circus. Still remember it.

 

[Bubbles]

Control. The big thing with Gillis is that he is looking for a level of control and freedom that you don't really see. It's why he originally agreed to the Canucks gig in the first place (as detailed in Ice Storm) and why I think he hasn't been hired subsequently. Looking at that document leak that came about, I don't think that sentiment has gone away.

This shit with "OBC" and whatever is overblown, in my opinion. Gillis wants a degree of freedom that ownership isn't comfortable granting, thus, he isn't interested in taking a gig.

I agree. Gillis' preference for total control is going to scare off a lot of owners, which is a contributing factor in him not getting an NHL job.

But at the same time, that shows a bit of arrogance of him. Most fired GMs in the NHL immediately take a scouting job in another organization. Think Dave Nonis, Peter Chiarelli, John Ferguson Jr, Ron Hextall. These OBC guys wait their time, develop contacts and are frequently mentioned in openings.

Can you describe a little more detail from Ice Storm about how he got the job? I've been looking for that book but I haven't found the right price.

 

[Dab]

"Eventually came around in the face of overwhelming evidences"

Lol? You're making it up.

So you think I am wrong and yet you're not showing me how I am wrong

From game in 2011 to last game of 2013 playoffs. They average 2 goals a game in the playoffs. Yet Gillis did enough, lol.

shiiiittttttposting

 

[polloqpiu]

The organisation under Benning did a cumulative horrible job at developing players and inserting them in the lineup. They missed top 10 picks, inserted players when not ready and in roles not fit for them (example mccann and virtanen, bo checking opponents top lines while sutter was deployed as an offesive center). They were not insulated with veterans, quite the opposite: the veterans benning signed showed horrible hockey culture by signing contracts and then coasting around, had terrible attitudes and called out rookie teammates to the media, then they never defended them when roughed up by opponents. Other veterans were just simply bad they had to be carried by the young players as a dead weight. I imagine they are horrible at following the young players' offseason training too seeing jake, but then it must be just him being lazy. Should add unfair deployment and treatment compared to the veterans by willie and green. Only the ones good and developed enough already became players despite the team effort to make them fail. That is the worst management you wanna have in pretty much any situation but especially with a rebuilding team.

 

[MS]

I just want to ask then, what conclusions would you come to when Gillis has been refused for so many jobs? If he's such a terrific guy, why hasn't he landed a front office job in the NHL?

I believe the first couple years he was still getting paid by the Canucks, was burnt out, and wasn't trying to get back into the league. So he didn't strike when the iron was hot, and became yesterdays news a bit.

He's also bad at self promotion and bad at dealing with the media, who he doesn't like. Opposite of Burke.

I suspect he's also demanding total control of hockey operations, which some teams may not be willing to give.

I don't particularly believe that there's some OBC conspiracy against him and that he's screwed because Brian Burke doesn't like him. Lots of people hate Burke, too.

 

[Bubbles]

I believe the first couple years he was still getting paid by the Canucks, was burnt out, and wasn't trying to get back into the league. So he didn't strike when the iron was hot, and became yesterdays news a bit.

He's also bad at self promotion and bad at dealing with the media, who he doesn't like. Opposite of Burke.

I suspect he's also demanding total control of hockey operations, which some teams may not be willing to give.

I don't particularly believe that there's some OBC conspiracy against him and that he's screwed because Brian Burke doesn't like him. Lots of people hate Burke, too.

I agree with all those points. And when you put it all together, is the reasons why he's had a hard time finding a job in the NHL.

How many people hate Brian Burke? I can only think of Aquilini, MLSE and Kevin Lowe. Burke has contacts and relationships with everyone in the NHL. The CEO of the Pens called him personally for the GM search to pick his brain.

I don't believe in OBC conspiracy either. But there's enough OBC guys with influence that hate Gillis. That is a fact. You don't see the CEO of the Pens calling Gillis for help.

 

[4Twenty]

I agree with all those points. And when you put it all together, is the reasons why he's had a hard time finding a job in the NHL.

How many people hate Brian Burke? I can only think of Aquilini, MLSE and Kevin Lowe. Burke has contacts and relationships with everyone in the NHL. The CEO of the Pens called him personally for the GM search to pick his brain.

I don't believe in OBC conspiracy either. But there's enough OBC guys with influence that hate Gillis. That is a fact. You don't see the CEO of the Pens calling Gillis for help.

Who are these Gillis haters? And on what grounds do you have this belief?

 

[RandV]

One recollection of the finals was Colin Campbell being temporarily suspended as the NHL Central Office Senior Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations as a result of the obvious conflict of interest related to his oversight on disciplinary and video replay decisions, because his Gregory Campbell was playing for Boston. Up until this point in the playoffs amazingly, the NHL allowed him to make decision on video replays and disciplinary decisions.

Colin Campbell currently serves as the Executive Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations for the NHL.

He wasn't temporarily suspsended, he voluntarily stepped down because he didn't think he could be an impartial judge because his son was playing. Then the guy he appointed in his place (can't recall) wasn't sure what to do on the Rome/Horton hit so he went and asked Brian Burke for advise.

Best part is there was an unrelated court case going on, for concussions maybe, that saw some league emails become public. Now you'd think at this point everyone's an adult and professional and is not going to act like a bad hockey parent at a midget game... but some of these emails showed Colin Campbell did watch his sons games and was still that parent, sending angry emails to referees bitching about calls made against his son.

Link

Dellow even found another instance of Campbell complaining about a call against his son: Nov. 13, 2007, in which Colin Campbell wrote to Walkom, "90 seconds left and he calls a weak penalty...tripping. Makes me sick." The tripping call, according to the box score, was on Gregory Campbell; Colin Campbell wrote that he had not seen the penalty but heard radio announcers say "it was a bull[bleep] call."

This was the head of league disciplinary, basically the referees boss.

 

[EpochLink]

I agree with all those points. And when you put it all together, is the reasons why he's had a hard time finding a job in the NHL.

How many people hate Brian Burke? I can only think of Aquilini, MLSE and Kevin Lowe. Burke has contacts and relationships with everyone in the NHL. The CEO of the Pens called him personally for the GM search to pick his brain.

I don't believe in OBC conspiracy either. But there's enough OBC guys with influence that hate Gillis. That is a fact. You don't see the CEO of the Pens calling Gillis for help.

Vancouver was so heavy influenced with OBC guys before Gillis.

Brian Burke, Dave Nonis, Marc Crawford, Pat Quinn and to a lesser extent, Mike Kennan.

 

[The Optimist]

The team is a lot worse than I think anyone expected.

It wasn't hard to predict that losing your all-star goalie and best defensive defenceman was going to lead to failure.

 

[Bubbles]

Who are these Gillis haters? And on what grounds do you have this belief?

LOL it's a Sunday, and there's a pandemic so I have nothing better to do. I've explained the OBC/Gillis thing a zillion times (even in this thread and others), so here we go!

This is from an article after the 2011 run.

Calling Eagleson a liar, Ontario Superior Court Justice Joseph O’Brien awarded Gillis his full insurance money, damages, and court costs. (Eagleson eventually ended up in prison.) But victory came at considerable cost. Gillis had gone public with a “family squabble.” Abandoned by the cozy hockey fraternity, he was cast as a pariah. Ever since, general managers, owners, and commissioners have found themselves up against a smart, learned, calculating adversary who, for good reason, feels zero loyalty to the old-boys network and the NHL crest. “Mike’s reputation as an agent was that of an extremely hard bargainer,” says Laurence Gilman, who met him across the table when Gilman worked for the Phoenix Coyotes. “He implicitly understood his clients’ leverage and maximized it in every negotiation. He was viewed as a staunch supporter of players’ rights. And of course his reputation with the hockey establishment had been impacted by his legal pursuit of Eagleson. There were many agents and club executives who hoped he’d go away.”

Inside the Mind of Vancouver Canucks GM Mike Gillis

I don't have to mention Burke again do I? People underestimate how much pull he has in the OBC, in fact he's pretty much the emperor. The evidence is all over for that.

The whole Backes/Bernier pissing match really set off John Davidson, who again is a pretty powerful member of the OBC. Davidson has been president of the Blues, Blue Jackets and Rangers, and also an influential member of the OBC.

Enough evidence for you?

 

[EpochLink]

LOL it's a Sunday, and there's a pandemic so I have nothing better to do. I've explained the OBC/Gillis thing a zillion times (even in this thread and others), so here we go!

This is from an article after the 2011 run.

Calling Eagleson a liar, Ontario Superior Court Justice Joseph O’Brien awarded Gillis his full insurance money, damages, and court costs. (Eagleson eventually ended up in prison.) But victory came at considerable cost. Gillis had gone public with a “family squabble.” Abandoned by the cozy hockey fraternity, he was cast as a pariah. Ever since, general managers, owners, and commissioners have found themselves up against a smart, learned, calculating adversary who, for good reason, feels zero loyalty to the old-boys network and the NHL crest. “Mike’s reputation as an agent was that of an extremely hard bargainer,” says Laurence Gilman, who met him across the table when Gilman worked for the Phoenix Coyotes. “He implicitly understood his clients’ leverage and maximized it in every negotiation. He was viewed as a staunch supporter of players’ rights. And of course his reputation with the hockey establishment had been impacted by his legal pursuit of Eagleson. There were many agents and club executives who hoped he’d go away.”

Inside the Mind of Vancouver Canucks GM Mike Gillis

I don't have to mention Burke again do I? People underestimate how much pull he has in the OBC, in fact he's pretty much the emperor. The evidence is all over for that.

The whole Backes/Bernier pissing match really set off John Davidson, who again is a pretty powerful member of the OBC. Davidson has been president of the Blues, Blue Jackets and Rangers, and also an influential member of the OBC.

Enough evidence for you?

This is hard evidence, I can’t believe some posters fail to see that.

 

[Bubbles]

Vancouver was so heavy influenced with OBC guys before Gillis.

Brian Burke, Dave Nonis, Marc Crawford, Pat Quinn and to a lesser extent, Mike Kennan.

Exactly. I just posted another evidence based post. I suspect it will be ignored again.

 

[Canucker]

That ECF game 7 was a f***ing circus. Still remember it.

Not to mention that incident at the end of game 6 when Nathan Horton sprayed water on a fan and threw the bottle into the crowd and no discipline whatsoever. Nobody will ever convince me that there wasn't a different standard for officiating for the Bruins vs. any other team in the league back then.