Management Thread: Weisileaks

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RandV

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I just want to ask then, what conclusions would you come to when Gillis has been refused for so many jobs? If he's such a terrific guy, why hasn't he landed a front office job in the NHL?

I don't think this is correct. He was fired seven years ago, but he wasn't immediately trying to get back into it. He took some time off and taught a few course at UVIC, then it seems he travelled around a while observing how teams are run in other pro sports leagues? I don't think there's a clear timeline here, but it seems only recently that he's starting looking for a GM/President job again... maybe starting with Seattle? And there's only been a few opportunities that's come and gone.

Now there's something there those few opportunities that have gone by he hasn't been snatched up. Like based on ability there's no way Brian Burke should get the Pittsburgh job ahead of Gillis. But we're only talking about maybe 3-4 jobs he's tried for so it's a little too soon to say he's been completely blacklisted.

And never forget if the OBC hate/hated Gillis they also hated the Canucks when he was running the team, and that was the best run the franchise has ever had. We're now 7 years into Benning purgatory and the OBC just loves him and the Canucks now. Look at all the pat on the backs he gets and the calls for patience.
 

Canucks1096

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Oh jesus christ what a drama queen. This actually *is* the management thread, so Benning actually is the topic. Some people want Gillis back because even though he wasn't perfect, he was still vastly better than what we've seen from Benning for the last seven years. Nobody needs "revenge" for you saying negative things about Gillis...what are you, 12?

The 2010/2011 Canucks won the President's Trophy before other teams had even locked up a playoff spot. It had the leading scorer in the NHL on the first line, a Selke winner on the second line, Jennings winners in net, the top offence, top defense, and top powerplay in the league, and their penalty killing only slumped out of the top spot in like the last week after Malhotra went down. It was the most statistically dominant Canucks team to ever hit the ice. Period. How many teams in that position make huge deals that fundamentally alter the team's structure? Nobody's addressing your points because they've been heard and addressed a thousand time before.

On Gillis' worst day, he's a better NHL gm than Benning could ever hope to be in his wildest fantasies.

You decided to cherry pick and just focus on 2011 and you're hoping to stickhandle your way out of this, Nice try, nope. You're going to ignore 2009 2010 and 2012 and 2013. Canucks were no match for the Hawks Kings and Sharks. Canucks couldn't defend against Hawks speed skill and size. Canucks had no scoring against Kings and Sharks.

I have no idea why I can't say Gillis didn't do enough to make the big trade to put the Canucks over top.

At least for me, I did acknowledge that Gillis good at managing the cap and thinking outside of box like sleep doctors.

Just because you like Gillis, you can still say the truth. There was a obvious weakness in 4 out of those 5 seasons, Gillis didn't make the trade to improve areas.

If you're okay with Gillis not improving the areas to have a better shot at the cup. Then no cup is good enough for you.

Just think about it. Your only argument and 2011 and ignoring the other years. Maybe and just know I am right.

Btw you make it sound like I said Benning was better than Gillis. If you go through all my posts. Not even once I said Benning was better than Gillis.
 

Peter10

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Dec 7, 2003
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You decided to cherry pick and just focus on 2011 and you're hoping to stickhandle your way out of this, Nice try, nope. You're going to ignore 2009 2010 and 2012 and 2013. Canucks were no match for the Hawks Kings and Sharks. Canucks couldn't defend against Hawks speed skill and size. Canucks had no scoring against Kings and Sharks.

I have no idea why I can't say Gillis didn't do enough to make the big trade to put the Canucks over top.

At least for me, I did acknowledge that Gillis good at managing the cap and thinking outside of box like sleep doctors.

Just because you like Gillis, you can still say the truth. There was a obvious weakness in 4 out of those 5 seasons, Gillis didn't make the trade to improve areas.

If you're okay with Gillis not improving the areas to have a better shot at the cup. Then no cup is good enough for you.

Just think about it. Your only argument and 2011 and ignoring the other years. Maybe and just know I am right.

Btw you make it sound like I said Benning was better than Gillis. If you go through all my posts. Not even once I said Benning was better than Gillis.

Lack of cap space was a limiting factor in most of these years so that needs to be taken into consideration. He probably could have done more to improve the team but it certainly was as easy as saying here is our first rounder + Hodgson now give us Carter.

As for your last point, you may have never said that Benning was better than Gillis, yet you gone lengths to defend a number of Benning moves
 

Britton

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You decided to cherry pick and just focus on 2011 and you're hoping to stickhandle your way out of this, Nice try, nope. You're going to ignore 2009 2010 and 2012 and 2013. Canucks were no match for the Hawks Kings and Sharks. Canucks couldn't defend against Hawks speed skill and size. Canucks had no scoring against Kings and Sharks.

I have no idea why I can't say Gillis didn't do enough to make the big trade to put the Canucks over top.

At least for me, I did acknowledge that Gillis good at managing the cap and thinking outside of box like sleep doctors.

Just because you like Gillis, you can still say the truth. There was a obvious weakness in 4 out of those 5 seasons, Gillis didn't make the trade to improve areas.

If you're okay with Gillis not improving the areas to have a better shot at the cup. Then no cup is good enough for you.

Just think about it. Your only argument and 2011 and ignoring the other years. Maybe and just know I am right.

Btw you make it sound like I said Benning was better than Gillis. If you go through all my posts. Not even once I said Benning was better than Gillis.

How exactly do you get better than the having one of the greatest seasons in NHL history. I don't think you understand just how good the 2011 team was, Gillis went as all in on that team as possible. It wasn't a 1 year thing either, they proceeded to win the President's Trophy again the next year. Thinking he should have made more deals that year is ridiculous given that we probably beat the eventual cup winners if Daniel doesn't get elbowed in the head. Also please explain the obvious weaknesses that were such easy fixes in those four seasons you claim he didn't try to improve.
 

Hit the post

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Seeing as it's from the old TV series "Smallville", filmed somewhere in BC lol...
 

Intangibos

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I have no idea why I can't say Gillis didn't do enough to make the big trade to put the Canucks over top.

You can say it all you want, it's just that it's wrong on its face and nobody is buying it.

This has been rehashed over and over again for 7 years and the posters on this site who were on your side of the argument eventually came around in the face of overwhelming evidence. Feel free to join them any time and look at the data, the roster we had, the assets we had, the cap room we had etc
 

Canucks1096

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How exactly do you get better than the having one of the greatest seasons in NHL history. I don't think you understand just how good the 2011 team was, Gillis went as all in on that team as possible. It wasn't a 1 year thing either, they proceeded to win the President's Trophy again the next year. Thinking he should have made more deals that year is ridiculous given that we probably beat the eventual cup winners if Daniel doesn't get elbowed in the head. Also please explain the obvious weaknesses that were such easy fixes in those four seasons you claim he didn't try to improve.

Correction, one of the greatest regular season and it is not one of the greatest playoffs. Canucks barely got by the Hawks and were outscored by large a margin in that series, Nash series is was a one man show in Kesler, SJ is a one man show in Henrik Sedin. Series against the Bos, only had 8 goals, in the playoffs they had 4 forwards with at least 0.5 forwards and only average a little 2 goals a game. Gillis didn't improve this and Canucks struggle to score on 2012 and 2013 in the playoffs.
If you read my post, he weakness was goal scoring in 2012 and 2013, 2009 and 2010 Canucks could defend against the Hawks speed size depth.

I never said Gillis never try to improve and there easy weaknesses.

So as a fan I should tell myself it is hard to fix the Canuck weaknesses so I should forgive Gillis and just ignore it?

I don't think you realize how bad the scoring in the playoffs was from 2011 to 2013.

Look at stats for Canucks in 2011 team and compare it to other team made it finals. Most will have more than 4 forwards with higher than 0.5 ppg.
 

ProstheticConscience

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You decided to cherry pick and just focus on 2011 and you're hoping to stickhandle your way out of this, Nice try, nope. You're going to ignore 2009 2010 and 2012 and 2013. Canucks were no match for the Hawks Kings and Sharks. Canucks couldn't defend against Hawks speed skill and size. Canucks had no scoring against Kings and Sharks.

I have no idea why I can't say Gillis didn't do enough to make the big trade to put the Canucks over top.

At least for me, I did acknowledge that Gillis good at managing the cap and thinking outside of box like sleep doctors.

Just because you like Gillis, you can still say the truth. There was a obvious weakness in 4 out of those 5 seasons, Gillis didn't make the trade to improve areas.

If you're okay with Gillis not improving the areas to have a better shot at the cup. Then no cup is good enough for you.

Just think about it. Your only argument and 2011 and ignoring the other years. Maybe and just know I am right.

Btw you make it sound like I said Benning was better than Gillis. If you go through all my posts. Not even once I said Benning was better than Gillis.

Like talking to the f***ing wall here.

Know why I'm not interested in spending much time talking about Gillis? BECAUSE HE GOT FIRED IN 2014!! It's over. Done.

Know why I'm not interested in going through a year-by-year recap of Gillis' moves or lack thereof for 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013? Because we already f***ing did it to death after the 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 seasons, that's why. It's completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is the Canucks have a GM whose team is on pace for a bottom 5 finish in year 7 of his tenure.

Your standard for Gillis is Cup or Bust every season...what's your standard for Benning? Guess what, there's been multiple obvious weaknesses on the team in all seven years he's been here. Has he traded to improve those areas? I mean, ffs. The Canucks have a sub .400 win percentage, and Benning's idea of a fix is moving out a bottom six player...for another bottom six player. So what's your analysis of 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021?

If you're harder on Gillis than Benning, I'd have to say that no cup is also plenty good enough for you as well.
 

Canucks1096

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You can say it all you want, it's just that it's wrong on its face and nobody is buying it.

This has been rehashed over and over again for 7 years and the posters on this site who were on your side of the argument eventually came around in the face of overwhelming evidence. Feel free to join them any time and look at the data, the roster we had, the assets we had, the cap room we had etc

"Eventually came around in the face of overwhelming evidences"

Lol? You're making it up.

So you think I am wrong and yet you're not showing me how I am wrong

From game in 2011 to last game of 2013 playoffs. They average 2 goals a game in the playoffs. Yet Gillis did enough, lol.
 

Intangibos

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"Eventually came around in the face of overwhelming evidences"

Lol? You're making it up.

So you think I am wrong and yet you're not showing me how I am wrong

From game in 2011 to last game of 2013 playoffs. They average 2 goals a game in the playoffs. Yet Gillis did enough, lol.

And from Game 1 - Game 5 of the SJ series we averaged 4 goals a game in the playoffs. Are there any other arbitrary date ranges you would like to explore?
 

Canucks1096

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Like talking to the f***ing wall here.

Know why I'm not interested in spending much time talking about Gillis? BECAUSE HE GOT FIRED IN 2014!! It's over. Done.

Know why I'm not interested in going through a year-by-year recap of Gillis' moves or lack thereof for 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013? Because we already f***ing did it to death after the 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 seasons, that's why. It's completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is the Canucks have a GM whose team is on pace for a bottom 5 finish in year 7 of his tenure.

Your standard for Gillis is Cup or Bust every season...what's your standard for Benning? Guess what, there's been multiple obvious weaknesses on the team in all seven years he's been here. Has he traded to improve those areas? I mean, ffs. The Canucks have a sub .400 win percentage, and Benning's idea of a fix is moving out a bottom six player...for another bottom six player. So what's your analysis of 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021?

If you're harder on Gillis than Benning, I'd have to say that no cup is also plenty good enough for you as well.

You're not talking to a wall, you're talking to someone that is good at having arguments. I Call things the way say I see it.

You're bringing on Benning again to make yourself a feel better

Let me say

Benning is just horrible, the worst gm in NHL history. Every move is bad

So can we leave Benning out of this and talk about Gillis.

Unbelieveable, you don't know how to argue so let's change the topic to Benning

I confirmed Benning is the worst gm in NHL history. We don't need talk him about it anymore.

Sorry If you want be to be a Gillis cheer leader like you and go Gillis Go, go Gillis go. Sorry I am not that type a fan. I call things I see it

You don't want to talk about Gills because you don't know how argue about points. Canucks were no match against Hawks in 2010 2009, Kings and Sharks in 2012 and 2013. As a fan I believe Gillis Could did more. He did get the players to solve those issues

To confirm that I am right, you only defended 2011 and you didn't bother defending the other years.

Have a great night.
 

Canucks1096

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And from Game 1 - Game 5 of the SJ series we averaged 4 goals a game in the playoffs. Are there any other arbitrary date ranges you would like to explore?

Cherry picking again. Lol

Canucks 17 goals in 7 games against Hawks

Canucks 14 goals in 6 games against Mash

8 goals against Bos in 7 games

8 goals against LA in 5 games

8 goals against Sharks in 4 games

Goal scoring in the playoffs was a weaknesses. Gillis didn't fix this issue.
 
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Javaman

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Guys, it might not be worth arguing with John “have a great night” Weisbrod.

I dunno. This most recent iteration of the "But Gillis" defense of Benning is kinda fascinating mainly because I can't believe anyone still has the chutzpah to attempt it.

Let's be honest, we all crane our necks to look at car crashes as we inch by the aftermath.
 
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Intangibos

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Cherry picking again. Lol

Canucks 17 goals in 7 games against Hawks

Canucks 14 goals in 6 games against Mash

8 goals against Bos in 7 games

8 goals against LA in 5 games

8 goals against Sharks in 4 games

Goal scoring in the playoffs was a weaknesses. Gillis didn't fix this issue.

Maybe you didn't understand my post. I'll give you a hint, it was about how you were cherrypicking.

Was "arbitrary" where I lost you? Before this conversation continues I would like to know what level of reading comprehension you're at so we can save time and avoid future situations like this.

Oh there I go again... "Comprehension", what an ironic word to fly overhead!
 
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Canucks1096

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Maybe you didn't understand my post. I'll give you a hint, it was about how you were cherrypicking.

Was "arbitrary" where I lost you? Before this conversation continues I would like to know what level of reading comprehension you're at so we can save time and avoid future situations like this.

Oh there I go again... "Comprehension", what an ironic word to fly overhead!

Sorry I didn't understand your post. I don't believe you understand what the definition of cherry picking is. You might want to google it.

Canucks window was from 2009 to 2013. I am giving a 3 year sample size they didn't have much scoring in the playoffs. Four out of those playoffs twice they didn't make it out of 1st round and twice they didn't make it out out 2nd round. Canucks were no match for the Hawks Kings and Sharks so I am pointed out their weaknesses in those seasons . So such a large sample size and I am providing for my argument.

I am cheering picking? Lol, you don't know how to argue so you use the same term than I am using on you. But the difference is I am using a large sample size and you're using one small sample size in 2011

I am done, please learn how to argue.

You, this Canucks1096 is making good points. I can't argue with him so let me say I don't want to talk about Gillis and switch to focus on Benning.

Have a great night. Time to get some sleep.
 

Javaman

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Sorry I didn't understand your post. I don't believe you understand what the definition of cherry picking is. You might want to google it.

Canucks window was from 2009 to 2013. I am giving a 3 year sample size they didn't have much scoring in the playoffs. Four out of those playoffs twice they didn't make it out of 1st round and twice they didn't make it out out 2nd round. Canucks were no match for the Hawks Kings and Sharks so I am pointed out their weaknesses in those seasons . So such a large sample size and I am providing for my argument.

I am cheering picking? Lol, you don't know how to argue so you use the same term than I am using on you. But the difference is I am using a large sample size and you're using one small sample size in 2011

I am done, please learn how to argue.

You, this Canucks1096 is making good points. I can't argue with him so let me say I don't want to talk about Gillis and switch to focus on Benning.

Have a great night. Time to get some sleep.

No, you've missed the point completely. Gillis hasn't been the GM for 7 years. His failings and successes have already been discussed long ago.

You make it seem like "switching the focus" to Benning is part of some outlandish conspiracy to avoid criticizing Gillis.

Benning is the current GM. It would be weird if this thread in 2021 wasn't focused entirely on Benning's performance.
 

ProstheticConscience

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You're not talking to a wall, you're talking to someone that is good at having arguments. I Call things the way say I see it.

You're bringing on Benning again to make yourself a feel better

Let me say

Benning is just horrible, the worst gm in NHL history. Every move is bad

So can we leave Benning out of this and talk about Gillis.

Unbelieveable, you don't know how to argue so let's change the topic to Benning

I confirmed Benning is the worst gm in NHL history. We don't need talk him about it anymore.

Sorry If you want be to be a Gillis cheer leader like you and go Gillis Go, go Gillis go. Sorry I am not that type a fan. I call things I see it

You don't want to talk about Gills because you don't know how argue about points. Canucks were no match against Hawks in 2010 2009, Kings and Sharks in 2012 and 2013. As a fan I believe Gillis Could did more. He did get the players to solve those issues

To confirm that I am right, you only defended 2011 and you didn't bother defending the other years.

Have a great night.
Why are you so obsessed with Gillis, a guy fired seven years ago?

What is wrong with you that you cannot understand he is irrelevant to the current discussion and current issues the team has?
 

Intangibos

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Sorry I didn't understand your post. I don't believe you understand what the definition of cherry picking is. You might want to google it.

Canucks window was from 2009 to 2013. I am giving a 3 year sample size they didn't have much scoring in the playoffs. Four out of those playoffs twice they didn't make it out of 1st round and twice they didn't make it out out 2nd round. Canucks were no match for the Hawks Kings and Sharks so I am pointed out their weaknesses in those seasons . So such a large sample size and I am providing for my argument.

I am cheering picking? Lol, you don't know how to argue so you use the same term than I am using on you. But the difference is I am using a large sample size and you're using one small sample size in 2011

I am done, please learn how to argue.

You, this Canucks1096 is making good points. I can't argue with him so let me say I don't want to talk about Gillis and switch to focus on Benning.

Have a great night. Time to get some sleep.

You frame two rounds in 2012 and 2013 as two years which while true is disingenuous, you're framing them in a way to intentionally make it seem like a longer sample size than it really is. Why do the other years not matter? From 2009-2012 we were a premiere team in the NHL. 2013 was the year Gillis said the team was done and needed to be rebuilt (obviously he was right). So you're including a year where it would have been an absolutely massive Benning-tier blunder to trade for a top line player in your deceptive sample. Also keep in mind we lost to the eventual cup champions 3 years in a row. What's the difference in losing to the cup champions in the first round, the third round, or the finals? From a business standpoint there is a difference in revenue, but in terms of team quality there is none.

You cherry picked by cutting out 4 rounds of hockey that don't benefit your fantasy, but add in a single round in a year where it would have been undeniably a massive blunder to bring in a top line player to support your argument that we needed a top line player. Do you understand why nobody respects your posts or takes your so called "arguments" seriously?

The truth is that behind your claims that you're using a large sample size, the only sample that seems to matter to people like you is one single game at the end of 2011. 16/16 wins = good, 15/16 wins = literally awful, loser can't build a winning team.

I hope you enjoy the hockey we have now, it's small minded thinking and tunneling on insignificant perceived errors, building them up to be massive blunders in your head, that led us to this point. You can't look at the process, you can't look at the strategy, you can't look at performance. You're the worst type of stat watching fan, the level 2 thinker who can't take a step beyond to try to understand how things work. You're the type of fan that no matter how good a player is playing, if he goes through a cold stretch of hot goalies and posts you'll say "well, he doesn't have the will to win, he doesn't want the puck on his stick when the game is on the line, he can't put the biscuit in the basket, get rid of him!".

The Canucks went to 7 games in the SCF against Tim Thomas making prime Hasek look like Cloutier while outright missing their #3 C, #2 RW, #1 D, not to mention the slew of injuries our team suffered and played through. That's how good the team Gillis built was. We didn't even need our full roster to compete with the very healthy Bruins for 7 games. I'll google cherry picking, why don't you google "context". You "arguments" seem to lack any.
 
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