New York Islanders: Lou Lamoriello Discussion

[Jester9881]

Wow murdered with video evidence. Glad I read this thread lol

No, apparently I was cherry picking.... I didn't even get through the games from the first week of November and had plenty of examples.

 

[pursuit81]

Not wasting any more time trying to prove to people that Hickey is a bad defenseman. I'd rather get into an argument with a flat earther... they have more sense.

And apparently more sense than a HOF GM and a lock HOF coach. Give me break.

 

[Newsworthy]

We don't need Hickey on this team so signing him to a four year deal is mind numbing. Toews already better and Aho is available. Pulock, Mayfield and Leddy are making strides. I'd love to deal both Hickey and Pelech because I feel they are the weak links.

 

[Jester9881]

And apparently more sense than a HOF GM and a lock HOF coach. Give me break.

You have a tough time reading don't you? If they had a better LD, Hickey would be sitting. Toews (a rookie) has knocked him down a peg on the depth chart. And thank God for that.... the team has been night and day better defensively since.

 

[PK Cronin]

And apparently more sense than a HOF GM and a lock HOF coach. Give me break.

Your argument stinks. Get a new one.

 

[pursuit81]

You have a tough time reading don't you? If they had a better LD, Hickey would be sitting. Toews (a rookie) has knocked him down a peg on the depth chart. And thank God for that.... the team has been night and day better defensively since.

I thought you were done "wasting any more time" with hockey ignorant peons such as myself? But since you asked, I don't have any trouble reading at all. You wrote it, why would I give it any currency whatsoever? You are clearly one of many posters on these boards who is absolutely desperate to show that you know more hockey than not only the rest of us, but also those who do for a living at the highest level. The difference between you and me is that I have the humility to know what I don't know.

 

[pursuit81]

Your argument stinks. Get a new one.

Another hockey genius heard from......

 

[Lame Lambert]

Another hockey genius heard from......

Smart people can make stupid decisions. It happens.

 

[PK Cronin]

Another hockey genius heard from......

The idea that because someone does something for a living means that they're automatically making the correct decision is so incredibly dumb. Trotz and Lamoriello have made mistakes in the past, they can make them in the future, they might be making some right now. Continually saying that you're correct because someone else is agreeing doesn't make you correct. It makes you incapable of making your own argument. You just had someone break down why you're wrong and you're retort is, "nope, they agree with me so you're wrong." How about actually add some insight or thoughts on the matter? You can't, because you simply don't know what you're talking about so you're resorting to a weak argument.

 

[Axel574]

Hickey and Pelech are the two worst defensemen in our six and who is worse can be argued. To be an elite defense it would be nice to have the talent to force whomever is the better one to the press box.

Can we all just agree on this and move on?

 

[disles1]

You don't win Stanley Cups with Hickey in your D lineup. Is he an NHLer? Yes-he's a #5/6 for a bottom rung team.

We should be striving for something better.....

 

[pursuit81]

The idea that because someone does something for a living means that they're automatically making the correct decision is so incredibly dumb. Trotz and Lamoriello have made mistakes in the past, they can make them in the future, they might be making some right now. Continually saying that you're correct because someone else is agreeing doesn't make you correct. It makes you incapable of making your own argument. You just had someone break down why you're wrong and you're retort is, "nope, they agree with me so you're wrong." How about actually add some insight or thoughts on the matter? You can't, because you simply don't know what you're talking about so you're resorting to a weak argument.

You write as though you have been proven to be right. You haven't proven JS. You spend your hours compiling a worst of TH video to show the world just how right you are. Pretty pathetic. Someone equally motivated could put together a best of video compilation but, fortunately, those pitiable enough to waste their time in such an endeavor are few and far between. Besides, the Islanders organization spends millions of dollars evaluating players using complete and unbiased video evidence to make informed judgements. I'll let them do the heavy lifting.

 

[PK Cronin]

You write as though you have been proven to be right. You haven't proven JS. You spend your hours compiling a worst of TH video to show the world just how right you are. Pretty pathetic. Someone equally motivated could put together a best of video compilation but, fortunately, those pitiable enough to waste their time in such an endeavor are few and far between. Besides, the Islanders organization spends millions of dollars evaluating players using complete and unbiased video evidence to make informed judgements. I'll let them do the heavy lifting.

Still can't add anything of your own? The forums are for discussion, not for you to parade around telling people they're wrong. Get on board or get out.

 

[Jester9881]

I thought you were done "wasting any more time" with hockey ignorant peons such as myself?

The best point you've made in this thread! Congrats

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

No, apparently I was cherry picking.... I didn't even get through the games from the first week of November and had plenty of examples.

What I do not understand is how his +/- does not reflect his awfulness.
Oh, and LL and Trotz now realize his contract was a mistake. Hopefully he can be part of a package.

 

[pursuit81]

Still can't add anything of your own? The forums are for discussion, not for you to parade around telling people they're wrong. Get on board or get out.

That I use the decisions of smarter hockey minds than my own as evidence does not suffice for you? Just to be clear, the decisions they make ARE evidence.

 

[PK Cronin]

That I use the decisions of smarter hockey minds than my own as evidence does not suffice for you? Just to be clear, the decisions they make ARE evidence.

You're not saying anything other than "smarter hockey minds are doing it, so I'm right." Again, add to the conversation beyond that or see yourself out, because otherwise you're spamming or trolling. It's very simple.

 

[Jester9881]

What I do not understand is how his +/- does not reflect his awfulness.
Oh, and LL and Trotz now realize his contract was a mistake. Hopefully he can be part of a package.

This is why people don't put much credence in that statistic in particular. It's not a reliable metric to evaluate players.

 

[periferal]

You don't win Stanley Cups with Hickey in your D lineup. Is he an NHLer? Yes-he's a #5/6 for a bottom rung team.

We should be striving for something better.....

Thank you.

I don't know if it's because we've been abused for so long, but too much of this fanbase misses the elephant in the room which is...If you want to win a Cup then you need Cup caliber players, coaches, and management.

We were NEVER winning a Cup with capuano...NEVER winning a Cup with snow...NEVER winning a Cup with wang....

We've gone from those three inept fools to new owners and perhaps the best GM and coach over the last 20 years.

THAT IS HOW YOU WIN STANLEY CUPS. That is the goal of EVERYONE around here right? RIGHT...?

Too many Islander fans under wang's colossal ****show of an ownership tenure totally missed how winning was never going to happen. As a result they kept giving guys like snow and capuano more and more chances until a decade was totally wasted.

This is the closest thing I could think of to describe it...

 

[ScaredStreit]

It's EXACTLY what you're taught to do. You communicate on the ice in that situation "REVERSE" if your D partner is open, "WHEEL" if it's safe to skate the puck out from behind the net or "CLEAR" if no other options. With defenders bearing down on him and Clutterbuck covered his options are to reverse or clear the puck. He made the wrong decision because he panicked like he always does.

Not wasting any more time trying to prove to people that Hickey is a bad defenseman. I'd rather get into an argument with a flat earther... they have more sense.

1) No you're not supposed to, that's a suicide pass. Making a blind pass to an open player who has an opponent right next to them is asking for injury, especially when you're 2-3 feet away from the boards

2) You're making this personal, not sure why and it isn't the first time in the thread. If you want to brag about how much you know about hockey and where/how you learned it, PM me. Let's compare notes. However I fully expect you to post here as to who has the better credentials and trust you not to leak mine (I hate doing this, and iirc have never done so on HF before because it's lame and petty), but if you want to suggest that I don't know hockey or what I'm talking about, I'll shot you down...and it'll be ugly.

If you're going to go around saying he sucks playing on the powerplay (when he doesn't play on it) and get salty when the facts prove you wrong, I don't know what to tell you.

But you know more than Trotz and Lou right? Give me a break.

PS: +/- is a weak statistic I agree with you on that, which is why I haven't used it about Hickey whatsoever.

 

[ScaredStreit]

The idea that because someone does something for a living means that they're automatically making the correct decision is so incredibly dumb. Trotz and Lamoriello have made mistakes in the past, they can make them in the future, they might be making some right now. Continually saying that you're correct because someone else is agreeing doesn't make you correct. It makes you incapable of making your own argument. You just had someone break down why you're wrong and you're retort is, "nope, they agree with me so you're wrong." How about actually add some insight or thoughts on the matter? You can't, because you simply don't know what you're talking about so you're resorting to a weak argument.

Of course Trotz/Lou aren't perfect and make mistakes, but they know a lot more and have a lot more expertise than people posting on HF Boards and that does count for something.

As for the argument it boiled down to really 4 things: 1) Hickey's working hard, being a good teammate, and +/- don't make him a good player (agreed btw) 2) Hickey can't produce on the powerplay (when he gets-literally-less than 6 minutes total a season and typically 7-15 seconds a game) 3) clips showing Hickey making the right decision and blasting him because he didn't make a blind suicide pass in the defensive zone 4) personally attacking people who disagree with their position.

If that's not a weak argument I don't know what one is.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Thank you.

I don't know if it's because we've been abused for so long, but too much of this fanbase misses the elephant in the room which is...If you want to win a Cup then you need Cup caliber players, coaches, and management.

We were NEVER winning a Cup with capuano...NEVER winning a Cup with snow...NEVER winning a Cup with wang....

We've gone from those three inept fools to new owners and perhaps the best GM and coach over the last 20 years.

THAT IS HOW YOU WIN STANLEY CUPS. That is the goal of EVERYONE around here right? RIGHT...?

Too many Islander fans under wang's colossal ****show of an ownership tenure totally missed how winning was never going to happen. As a result they kept giving guys like snow and capuano more and more chances until a decade was totally wasted.

This is the closest thing I could think of to describe it...

Bottom pairing defensemen don't win you the Stanley Cup and are certainly not as important as top end players or goaltenders are at doing so. If winning the Cup was as easy as replacing a bottom pairing defensemen, every team would be contenders tomorrow. Every cup winner (salary cap era) has average to good bottom pairing defensemen, because if they were better they'd be playing top-4 minutes elsewhere.

I'm sure Washington fans right now are saying "ughhhh if only we got rid of Djoos we'd actually have a shot at winning the cup,".

 

[PK Cronin]

Of course Trotz/Lou aren't perfect and make mistakes, but they know a lot more and have a lot more expertise than people posting on HF Boards and that does count for something.

As for the argument it boiled down to really 4 things: 1) Hickey's working hard, being a good teammate, and +/- don't make him a good player (agreed btw) 2) Hickey can't produce on the powerplay (when he gets-literally-less than 6 minutes total a season and typically 7-15 seconds a game) 3) clips showing Hickey making the right decision and blasting him because he didn't make a blind suicide pass in the defensive zone 4) personally attacking people who disagree with their position.

If that's not a weak argument I don't know what one is.

I have no issues with anyone who wants to debate a player, system, etc. like you guys are. In fact, I think it's great because it can help people view things differently or maybe notice something they missed before. The issue I have is with posters who don't contribute any analysis and just post that they're right because the coach or GM agrees with them, and that's the only argument they're making. Using what they're choosing to do to reinforce a position is fine and definitely acceptable.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Geez, what happened here? I feel like the author Andrew Greeley, who was purported to be famous for starting an argument and then leaving the room.

It's obvious that some of us think Hickey is terrible and some of us think he's not as bad as that, but hopefully we all want him to do as good a job as he is capable of. Regardless of where you come down in the discussion, no one here was saying he is great, even his supporters, which I think got lost in there somehow.

 

[MikeyMike01]

So many angry, condescending posts in this thread. It’s embarassing to read them.