New York Islanders: Lou Lamoriello Discussion

[Bird Boys]

Lou is responsible for bringing in Trotz.

Great point but that was king of a no brainer move.

 

[Seph]

Lou is responsible for everything hockey related. He’s done a great job this year when you look at the entirety of what he has done. Isles have done a complete 180 this year. Big off season for Lou coming up that will hopefully put his stamp on the team and help them take a next step.

However...he screwed the pouch at the deadline. You can’t expect to run the same 4 centres all yr...esp how Czikas plays and how old Fil is. Once they realized Gionta was not going to cut it they should have looked to bring someone in that can play C and wing. Kuhn/Fritz cannot be Plan B.

Lou has said all year this is an evaluation year. He then said this season's success isn't changing his plan, which means he still views it as an evaluation year. I'm fine with him not giving up assets and getting more looks at the AHL guys as part of that. I'm also fine with the playoffs being part of the evaluation, as that can often be the most telling time for a player. Ultimately, it'll depend on how the evaluation works out in the future that will allow me to really judge how well he did this season, but for right now the team is looking to be in way better shape than last season. Even if I don't agree with all of Lou's moves, I still have to give him credit as a good GM based on that alone. His past history of success also buys him a lot of slack, IMO.

Great point but that was king of a no brainer move.

It was so no-brainer of a move that the team he just won the cup for lowballed him and every pundit in the country wrote us off as being bottom feeders this season even after signing him. Even if we assume it was a true no-brainer move, he still deserves loads of credit for being the guy that secured the asset everyone with a brain would be going after. I mean, it'd be just as much of a no-brainer to sign Panarin this summer, but I'd still give Lou a ton of credit for doing so if he pulled it off.

 

[Uncle Duke]

OUR evaluation year of LL starts this summer.

Everything he's done up to now has been pretty boilerplate. That's not a knock, but the moves he's made were fairly obvious ones, though I do give him excellent marks for not getting antsy at the TD just because we were in good position. He knew that no one move or player was going to make us a Cup contender this year.

 

[Newsworthy]

I like what LL did in the draft and hiring Trotz.
I liked the move to bring in Valteri. The Lehner move has obviously worked out.
Leo is just OK and Martin gives us toughness at a very affordable price.
I dislike everything else. And that's a big problem because the negTives largely out way the positives. If LL is idle again this Summer I will question his commitment to the team. When he aquired MM and LEO and helped them with their salary cap I started to feel Lam was still getting paid as a double agent for Toronto.
I wouldn't have a problem if ownership decided to relieve LL of his duties if we see the same team on the ice at the end of next season.
It's starting to appear as though the game has passed him buy. He is stubborn to a fault.
I'm starting to question whether ownership made mistake giving Lou Lam this much authority.

 

[Newsworthy]

OUR evaluation year of LL starts this summer.

Everything he's done up to now has been pretty boilerplate. That's not a knock, but the moves he's made were fairly obvious ones, though I do give him excellent marks for not getting antsy at the TD just because we were in good position. He knew that no one move or player was going to make us a Cup contender this year.

To me it Starr's with how he handles the Ladd situation and the goalie situation. Ladd hurts the team when he's on the ice.

 

[12Dog]

I like what LL did in the draft and hiring Trotz.
I liked the move to bring in Valteri. The Lehner move has obviously worked out.
Leo is just OK and Martin gives us toughness at a very affordable price.
I dislike everything else. And that's a big problem because the negTives largely out way the positives. If LL is idle again this Summer I will question his commitment to the team. When he aquired MM and LEO and helped them with their salary cap I started to feel Lam was still getting paid as a double agent for Toronto.
I wouldn't have a problem if ownership decided to relieve LL of his duties if we see the same team on the ice at the end of next season.
It's starting to appear as though the game has passed him buy. He is stubborn to a fault.
I'm starting to question whether ownership made mistake giving Lou Lam this much authority.

Leo was a free agent, how did that help Toronto’s cap?
Staple said Lou was big game hunting at the deadline, but didn’t want to pay the cost for a rental.
I highly doubt the team you see today will be the team you see on Sept 1.
Giving Lou this much authority has changed this organization from a Garth Snow clown show/amateur hour production to one of professionalism. That’s what happens when competent people are hired and allowed to manage.

 

[Newsworthy]

Leo was a free agent, how did that help Toronto’s cap?
Staple said Lou was big game hunting at the deadline, but didn’t want to pay the cost for a rental.
I highly doubt the team you see today will be the team you see on Sept 1.
Giving Lou this much authority has changed this organization from a Garth Snow clown show/amateur hour production to one of professionalism. That’s what happens when competent people are hired and allowed to manage.

You nailed it!
This is precisely my problem with Lou. Why did he wait until the deadline to go big game hunting?
Buffalo didn't wait when they obtained Skinner.
Calgary didn't wait when they traded with Carolina either. Lindholm would have been a great fit with this team.Nino wasn't a deadline acquisition either.
And not all trades at the deadline where overpayments. Plus if this team isn't going anywhere why instead of remaining idle at the trade deadline did he not sell off assets that he won't resign next summer like Eberle?

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Great point but that was king of a no brainer move.

For Trotz.

It would have been a no brainer for Snow too but Trotz wouldn’t have come who said he came because of Lou

 

[doublechili]

You nailed it!
This is precisely my problem with Lou. Why did he wait until the deadline to go big game hunting?
Buffalo didn't wait when they obtained Skinner.
Calgary didn't wait when they traded with Carolina either. Lindholm would have been a great fit with this team.Nino wasn't a deadline acquisition either.
And not all trades at the deadline where overpayments. Plus if this team isn't going anywhere why instead of remaining idle at the trade deadline did he not sell off assets that he won't resign next summer like Eberle?

I bolded that because sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don't make (and I was someone advocating getting Lindholm at the time). Based on what CAR got for Lindholm/Hanafin, Lou would have had to deal Pulock plus a lot. But Lou specifically said he wanted to evaluate players and use time, so he held Pulock and he's improved 100% this year and become a legit 1st pairing defenseman.

And you glossed over getting Lehner, Flip and Martin like they were hardly anything. Each of those seemingly small moves was a huge plus. He took a team that everyone had figured to be a bottom-feeder and has them challenging for the division lead 70 games in. But he didn't know that was going to be the case so how was he going to make a big move before the season? And even later in the season you have to ask is this the year we want to go all in for a Cup? My only gripe is that he didn't go for C depth at the deadline, but the currency for that kind of player is a 3rd round pick and we didn't have one of those this year.

 

[saintunspecified]

Whenever I think about the disappointment I have regarding where the team is now in relation to inactivity at the deadline, I have to temper that with the thought that the same person responsible for the team being where it is is responsible for doing nothing at the deadline.

I'm not saying after the fact that an injury to a center or to, say, Johnny Boychuk could easily derail the season. I said that before the fact, and I this took no special power of observation. Lots of us knew and said this. It's happened, and it seems pretty likely that the remainder of the season is going to be a struggle. If Boychuk doesn't come back at full strength we're in big trouble. And if we lose another forward at this point, forget about a C, we're in big trouble.

Whatever hope we have depends upon our goalies standing on their heads. The first line doesn't have enough jam, the second line doesn't have enough speed, and we will have one passable bottom-six line. More likely than not, we'll have to sacrifice having any toughness in the lineup at all in order to cobble together a third line that can take difficult matchups (putting together Cizikas, Komorov, and Gd knows who else because Ladd isn't an NHLer at this point).

All that said, not spending assets to merely cover over known and understood weaknesses was a choice LL made when he decided to go after (and fail in acquiring) only top-end talent. So, failure for the rest of this season, which for me means making the the playoffs as a wild card and losing in the first round, seems very likely. But at least NYI will have maintained its assets.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Whatever hope we have depends upon our goalies standing on their heads.

I don't think so.

The success that they've had this year was due to a complete commitment to a defensive structure rather than just goalies stealing games. Obviously the offense (and PP) has to wake up but there's more to this team than just the goalies.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Great point but that was king of a no brainer move.

What, sorry, but not many GMs would have been able to pull off signing Trotz.
Trotz signs because it was Lou offering the job, so saying it was a no brainer is ridiculous

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Blowing this up and making drastic changes are possible. Even a step back in the standings for the benefit of opening night in the new arena is possible.

Remember, this season has been a surprise to everyone including Lou.
They are ahead of schedule.

It was interesting as the Boston feed had a camera of Lou watching the game alone. I imagine it is much different then the scenes we would see in Toronto with a crowded box with all the opinions he would here night in and night out.

This will all truly be his doing.

 

[saintunspecified]

I don't think so.

The success that they've had this year was due to a complete commitment to a defensive structure rather than just goalies stealing games. Obviously the offense (and PP) has to wake up but there's more to this team than just the goalies.

I agree that the goaltenders' save percentages to date are, in large part, due to structure. But I disagree with your disagreement, because I expect the loss of the center whose whole game was structure to cause the structure to degenerate. Hope I'm wrong, and I don't blame the players, but that's what fatigue does.

Either our bottom six becomes

Ladd-Cizikas-Komorov
and
JUNK

or

Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck
and
JUNK

Either way you're playing with 3 lines plus one you hope you can hide for 7 minutes per game.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

OUR evaluation year of LL starts this summer.

Everything he's done up to now has been pretty boilerplate. That's not a knock, but the moves he's made were fairly obvious ones, though I do give him excellent marks for not getting antsy at the TD just because we were in good position. He knew that no one move or player was going to make us a Cup contender this year.

Even if he could not get one of the big names, he could have done something to at least give us a fighting chance if injuries finally struck after we had been lucky all season on that front. Instead he did nothing and now we are team that will likely still go into the playoffs, but with a lottery pick game lineup that has no shot. Very sad after how much the team had overachieved all season to get to first place that he did nothing to help these guys.

 

[saintunspecified]

Even if he could not get one of the big names, he could have done something to at least give us a fighting chance if injuries finally struck after we had been lucky all season on that front. Instead he did nothing and now we are team that will likely still go into the playoffs, but with a lottery pick game lineup that has no shot. Very sad after how much the team had overachieved all season to get to first place that he did nothing to help these guys.

Is that really very sad? Did the players learn nothing this year?

It's only said if the organization moves forward with all that the players learned and does nothing to give them a real chance next year. That would be sad.

 

[PK Cronin]

You nailed it!
This is precisely my problem with Lou. Why did he wait until the deadline to go big game hunting?
Buffalo didn't wait when they obtained Skinner.
Calgary didn't wait when they traded with Carolina either. Lindholm would have been a great fit with this team.Nino wasn't a deadline acquisition either.
And not all trades at the deadline where overpayments. Plus if this team isn't going anywhere why instead of remaining idle at the trade deadline did he not sell off assets that he won't resign next summer like Eberle?

He, like everyone else, was likely waiting to see if the Islanders start was just a fluke. You don't want to make a Vanek trade and then miss the playoffs.

I don't think so.

The success that they've had this year was due to a complete commitment to a defensive structure rather than just goalies stealing games. Obviously the offense (and PP) has to wake up but there's more to this team than just the goalies.

Agreed. There's a reason why our goaltending is letting up more goals when this team is playing poorly. They aren't standing on their heads every night stealing games for the team.

Even if he could not get one of the big names, he could have done something to at least give us a fighting chance if injuries finally struck after we had been lucky all season on that front. Instead he did nothing and now we are team that will likely still go into the playoffs, but with a lottery pick game lineup that has no shot. Very sad after how much the team had overachieved all season to get to first place that he did nothing to help these guys.

Wait, I thought every team has injuries and injuries aren't an excuse?

If the team overachieved, why make a middling move that doesn't actually help the team become a contender. It's an absolute waste. Spare me the, "anything can happen" mantra because the scenario you're talking about has not happened in the modern NHL.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I'm the biggest Lou and Trotz supporter here.

I had no desire to see valuable futures be moved for big names that would likely walk on July 1st, much less even more foolish moves. As expected, Lou didn't take such drastic measures. Hooray to that!

I had thoroughly expected a tweak that would directly address at least one of several clear weaknesses shown by this team, an outfit that otherwise has its act together.

Nonetheless, the Trade Deadline is proving to have been a FAIL.

The things we lacked at the deadline have been emphasized and put on blatant display at the most crucial juncture of the year. They are the exact things that are most hampering this team at this very moment - even worse than they had before the Trade Deadline.

Thus, having done NOTHING to even and try to address the already existing ills has lead to this team reaching a new level of failure in just these weaknesses. They've intensified. Clearly, the 55 games in which this team couldn't turn its PP into a weapon and in which there was no adequate sixth top 6 forward should have been understood as a very ample measuring stick. They should have been seen as a cry for help, not a vote of confidence.

No matter the reasoning behind Lou's inaction, any objective rating of Lou's work this year must include a critical look at the non-action taken in addressing two very clear-cut deficiencies.

For they are haunting us now with reckless abandon...

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

He, like everyone else, was likely waiting to see if the Islanders start was just a fluke. You don't want to make a Vanek trade and then miss the playoffs.



Agreed. There's a reason why our goaltending is letting up more goals when this team is playing poorly. They aren't standing on their heads every night stealing games for the team.



Wait, I thought every team has injuries and injuries aren't an excuse?

If the team overachieved, why make a middling move that doesn't actually help the team become a contender. It's an absolute waste. Spare me the, "anything can happen" mantra because the scenario you're talking about has not happened in the modern NHL.

Who said anything about an excuse. If anything I am saying the opposite to what you are arguing that I am saying. My point is the team will now use injuries and being banged up and worn down, all that crap, as an excuse when they lose in 4 or 5 games in the first round because their GM did not add any depth. My point also has nothing to do with "anything can happen." The "anything can happen" mantra would be relevant if I said we had to get Stone and Duchene or bust, all in and see what happens. While I would not have been opposed to that, no that is not what I have been saying. I said there were plenty of guys out there who went for 3rd round picks and others who might have if it was offered that could have at best been upgrades, and at worst be slotted into the lineups when we have injuries. Lou gave us no shot to even be competitive in the playoffs if a couple of guys went down with injuries. Looking at our current lineup is all the evidence you should need of this. That lineup is non competitive.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

I'm the biggest Lou and Trotz supporter here.

I had no desire to see valuable futures be moved for big names that would likely walk on July 1st, much less even more foolish moves. As expected, Lou didn't take such drastic measures. Hooray to that!

I had thoroughly expected a tweak that would directly address at least one of several clear weaknesses shown by this team, an outfit that otherwise has its act together.

Nonetheless, the Trade Deadline is proving to have been a FAIL.

The things we lacked at the deadline have been emphasized and put on blatant display at the most crucial juncture of the year. They are the exact things that are most hampering this team at this very moment - even worse than they had before the Trade Deadline.

Thus, having done NOTHING to even and try to address the already existing ills has lead to this team reaching a new level of failure in just these weaknesses. They've intensified. Clearly, the 55 games in which this team couldn't turn its PP into a weapon and in which there was no adequate sixth top 6 forward should have been understood as a very ample measuring stick. They should have been seen as a cry for help, not a vote of confidence.

No matter the reasoning behind Lou's inaction, any objective rating of Lou's work this year must include a critical look at the non-action taken in addressing two very clear-cut deficiencies.

For they are haunting us now with reckless abandon...

Very well said and exactly right on all counts.

 

[PK Cronin]

I'm the biggest Lou and Trotz supporter here.

I had no desire to see valuable futures be moved for big names that would likely walk on July 1st, much less even more foolish moves. As expected, Lou didn't take such drastic measures. Hooray to that!

I had thoroughly expected a tweak that would directly address at least one of several clear weaknesses shown by this team, an outfit that otherwise has its act together.

Nonetheless, the Trade Deadline is proving to have been a FAIL.

The things we lacked at the deadline have been emphasized and put on blatant display at the most crucial juncture of the year. They are the exact things that are most hampering this team at this very moment - even worse than they had before the Trade Deadline.

Thus, having done NOTHING to even and try to address the already existing ills has lead to this team reaching a new level of failure in just these weaknesses. They've intensified. Clearly, the 55 games in which this team couldn't turn its PP into a weapon and in which there was no adequate sixth top 6 forward should have been understood as a very ample measuring stick. They should have been seen as a cry for help, not a vote of confidence.

No matter the reasoning behind Lou's inaction, any objective rating of Lou's work this year must include a critical look at the non-action taken in addressing two very clear-cut deficiencies.

For they are haunting us now with reckless abandon...

In a bubble, the deadline may be a failure, but we don't live in a bubble. What is the point in addressing our center depth with a mediocre move if we're not winning the cup anyway?

 

[PK Cronin]

Who said anything about an excuse. If anything I am saying the opposite to what you are arguing that I am saying. My point is the team will now use injuries and being banged up and worn down, all that crap, as an excuse when they lose in 4 or 5 games in the first round because their GM did not add any depth. My point also has nothing to do with "anything can happen." The "anything can happen" mantra would be relevant if I said we had to get Stone and Duchene or bust, all in and see what happens. While I would not have been opposed to that, no that is not what I have been saying. I said there were plenty of guys out there who went for 3rd round picks and others who might have if it was offered that could have at best been upgrades, and at worst be slotted into the lineups when we have injuries. Lou gave us no shot to even be competitive in the playoffs if a couple of guys went down with injuries. Looking at our current lineup is all the evidence you should need of this. That lineup is non competitive.

It's not a competitive lineup even with the moves you're talking about. They weren't going to win the cup with the moves you're talking about. Why did you want those moves? Just to be "competitive," whatever the heck that means?

The team trades for Coyle and gets bounced in round 1 or 2, wow, what a great move. So glad we were "competitive" for the playoffs.

 

[saintunspecified]

In a bubble, the deadline may be a failure, but we don't live in a bubble. What is the point in addressing our center depth with a mediocre move if we're not winning the cup anyway?

I agree. The two players who were traded relatively cheaply have been busts for their new teams - Johansson and Brassard. Nobody else who is less than a premium player was traded for a price I'd want to pay. In hindsight, the only deal that makes me think is Stone, but it probably would have cost Dobson.

 

[Lame Lambert]

It's not a competitive lineup even with the moves you're talking about. They weren't going to win the cup with the moves you're talking about. Why did you want those moves? Just to be "competitive," whatever the heck that means?

The team trades for Coyle and gets bounced in round 1 or 2, wow, what a great move. So glad we were "competitive" for the playoffs.

If we made a move he would be complaining about how much we gave up.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

In a bubble, the deadline may be a failure, but we don't live in a bubble. What is the point in addressing our center depth with a mediocre move if we're not winning the cup anyway?

Well, I didn't mention anything about our center depth or it needing to have been addressed.

I'm still stuck on the ineffectiveness of the PP and our lack of a sixth Top 6 forward. We knew that before the Trade Deadline. We're feeling it magnified now when every point counts.