Sportsnet: Liljegren among potential available Leaf players

[The Winter Soldier]

Surprised they would trade their best prospect. I think they are contenders but if I was them I wouldnt throw my best prospects out to try to get in front of Boston, TB. No guarantee it will work. Feels like something their old regime would do.

Sandlin is now considered a better prospect I would say. I think Button got that one right on his affiliates prospect list.

 

[Liferleafer]

No I am dead right. You are wrong. I follow prospects closer than most here. And it was in part to Liljegren's hockey IQ that caused him to drop.




Timothy Liljegren at eliteprospects.com

Not sure where in that article you got those quotes...i clicked on it and got this:


A skilled offensive defenseman with excellent skating skills. The way he combines his speed with strong puck handling skills makes him a quite spectacular player to watch. Decision making is at times a bit questionable and there is some room for improvement when it comes to his defensive game. If he puts everything together, he should become a high scoring defenseman thanks to his hockey sense, quick release and strong passing game. (EP 2017)

He's not wrong, there was questions about his defensive game, liljegren is much improved in that department.

 

[Colt55]

What did it cost to get McDonagh and Karlsson?

When was the last time a defenseman with 1 year left on their deal was traded for a top line forward, a 22 year old with blazing speed (and on pace for well over 20 goals and 40 points) and a top prospect and a 1st? Let me know and I'll agree.

Once again Dorian was and idiot and NYork was blowing it up. At this moment Dorian doesnt have a dman to sell and No team has come to the blow it up conclusion yet. So with out that option you got the Hall for Larson or fair value for a dman. Any case the leafs are falling in the standings quickly. If they fall any further they could be a wild card team. Time to make a decision.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Sandlin is now considered a better prospect I would say. I think Button got that one right on his affiliates prospect list.

Didnt know. Always assumed Liljegren was their best. Their fans have spoken pretty highly of him since he was drafted. Surprised they are putting him on the block so soon if the rumor is true.

 

[Colt55]

What did it cost to get McDonagh and Karlsson?

When was the last time a defenseman with 1 year left on their deal was traded for a top line forward, a 22 year old with blazing speed (and on pace for well over 20 goals and 40 points) and a top prospect and a 1st? Let me know and I'll agree.

Also i wasnt suggesting anyone from my team. I am just saying time is ticking. Also petro has 1.5 years two playoff runs and parayko has 4 years. Either way they are not going to be sold for pennies on the dollar if at all. The leafs need to make a decision soon. Good luck

 

[SprDaVE]

Once again Dorian was and idiot and NYork was blowing it up. At this moment Dorian doesnt have a dman to sell and No team has come to the blow it up conclusion yet. So with out that option you got the Hall for Larson or fair value for a dman. Any case the leafs are falling in the standings quickly. If they fall any further they could be a wild card team. Time to make a decision.

You say Dorion is an idiot and the Rangers blowing up, but you're omitting that Chiarelli isn't an idiot for trading Hall for Larsson? Weird how this works.

If the Blues aren't retooling at the deadline, then I agree that trading your top defenseman for futures doesn't work. I never said otherwise. With that said, if they do commit to trading Pietrangelo, good luck finding a team willing to trade Taylor Hall or a top end roster player with term for him. Maybe Armstrong can find an idiot to trade with though.

Leafs are struggling right now but the Blues aren't exactly doing much better. The Leafs will be just fine keeping their top assets if things don't work out and definitely won't panic to give you 2 first line players, a top prospect and a 1st either.

Good luck though!

 

[Liferleafer]

Also i wasnt suggesting anyone from my team. I am just saying time is ticking. Also petro has 1.5 years two playoff runs and parayko has 4 years. Either way they are not going to be sold for pennies on the dollar if at all. The leafs need to make a decision soon. Good luck

Thanks, here's hoping the Blues can make a late push for the playoffs as well.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Didnt know. Always assumed Liljegren was their best. Their fans have spoken pretty highly of him since he was drafted. Surprised they are putting him on the block so soon if the rumor is true.

If this article is correct. Then the Leafs feel this way too. Since Sandlin is not a potential trade candidate, and he is not a right shot as Timothy is. Which is a greater need for the Leafs. Which should tell you something. Only 1 Leaf made Button's top prospects affiliates list. It was Sandlin drafted a year later. If he is a reflection of how scouts think. It's a good bet he is thought of higher also.

 

[Bedards Dad]

I know that is the order of their value.

Would you do Larsson for Liljegren + a forward prospect?

Not a chance, we saw how the last Larsson trade worked out.

 

[Liferleafer]

If this article is correct. Then the Leafs feel this way too. Since Sandlin is not a potential trade candidate, and he is not a right shot as Timothy is. Which is a greater need for the Leafs. Which should tell you something. Only 1 Leaf made Button's top prospects affiliates list. It was Sandlin drafted a year later. If he is a reflection of how scouts think. It's a good bet he is thought of higher also.

Liljegren is our best RHD, Sandin or best LHD. Sandin is a guy that Dubas knew with the Greyhounds...a guy he made moves at the draft to acquire...basically "his guy".

I also find it funny when you say 'if this article is correct" like it means the leafs have given up on Liljegren...there's an article about Muzzin being available....one about Hamilton being available. In those threads, everyone says 'well sure...for the right price/overpayment"....why doesn't that apply here? Maybe Dubas is seeing how good of a Dman he can get by dangling his top RHD prospect? If the offers are not enough, he keeps Lil...much like Muzzin/Hamilton.

 

[Colt55]

You say Dorion is an idiot and the Rangers blowing up, but you're omitting that Chiarelli isn't an idiot for trading Hall for Larsson? Weird how this works.

If the Blues aren't retooling at the deadline, then I agree that trading your top defenseman for futures doesn't work. I never said otherwise. With that said, if they do commit to trading Pietrangelo, good luck finding a team willing to trade Taylor Hall or a top end roster player with term for him. Maybe Armstrong can find an idiot to trade with though.

Leafs are struggling right now but the Blues aren't exactly doing much better. The Leafs will be just fine keeping their top assets if things don't work out and definitely won't panic to give you 2 first line players, a top prospect and a 1st either.

Good luck though!

No chiraelli was an idiot. I get it you want a top pair #1 rhd Dman but futures isn't going to get that. You may get a 3 or 4 guy which could help stabilize. Only issue is then you have to many 3-4 dmen on your team. All I am saying is that divas better make a move soon. You guys are droping like rocks. As for the blues we never were that high. We may even make playoffs who knows. But we defiantly don't have doria n as a gm and we are not blowing it up. Best bet is probably pesce from car. Doubt they give up him or Hamilton for less then what I described. Gotta give to get

 

[Colt55]

Thanks, here's hoping the Blues can make a late push for the playoffs as well.

I wish they would just let jake Allen keep playing so we get a shot at Hughes or kappo

 

[Liferleafer]

I wish they would just let jake Allen keep playing so we get a shot at Hughes or kappo

i doubt Army goes for that plan...

 

[CupsOverCash]

If this article is correct. Then the Leafs feel this way too. Since Sandlin is not a potential trade candidate, and he is not a right shot as Timothy is. Which is a greater need for the Leafs. Which should tell you something. Only 1 Leaf made Button's top prospects affiliates list. It was Sandlin drafted a year later. If he is a reflection of how scouts think. It's a good bet he is thought of higher also.

I personally wouldnt trade either of them. Young team with some to prove. Id wait a year maybe.

 

[Colt55]

i doubt Army goes for that plan...

No he is for the let's try to make playoffs lose our first round pick in the 10-15 range for buffalo and not get any better next year.

 

[Liferleafer]

No he is for the let's try to make playoffs lose our first round pick in the 10-15 range for buffalo and not get any better next year.

Huh....sounds like the Leafs Burke era....i feel bad for ya.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Those must be some awesome drugs!

I’m setting you up for two good playoff runs. You are only losing one of your top guys in Kap. I am lining you up to sign your two top prospects. I’m also taking a cap dump. That has some value

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I personally wouldnt trade either of them. Young team with some to prove. Id wait a year maybe.

It's never a good idea to trade 1st rd picks. So for the Leafs to make Liljegren available, it tells you that he has been passed by Sandin on their depth chart. And given their need for a right handed D man, even more a tell I would say. Ideally I agree perhaps 3 years of AHL is the time you know what you are getting in a player. If a player does not pan out, the upside you are selling is no longer as valuable as say right now. This is the only thing to consider. Sort of like what happened to Koekkoek with you guys.

 

[CupsOverCash]

It's never a good idea to trade 1st rd picks. So for the Leafs to make Liljegren available, it tells you that he has been passed by Sandin on their depth chart. And given their need for a right handed D man, even more a tell I would say. Ideally I agree perhaps 3 years of AHL is the time you know what you are getting in a player. If a player does not pan out, the upside you are selling is no longer as valuable as say right now. This is the only thing to consider. Sort of like what happened to Koekkoek with you guys.

Koekkoek had nowhere to play. He also had injuries slow him down. Then we acquired Coburn and later Sergachev, then McDonagh. It just never really worked out for him. Liljegran is on a team that needs a top RHD and he was drafted to be that. Seems like the need is there. But sounds like they want a more established guy there which makes sense considering where they are but I also think they are young enough to wait and see if he can be that guy. Saves them money and can use their other prospects to upgrade other areas.

 

[Fat Elvis]

Alec Martinez is a left shot but plays the right side in top 4. Signed for 2 more seasons at 4mil. Would he interest the Leafs at all? Grundstrom+

 

[stepdad gaary]

Here are just a few pre-draft articles...one from the Canes saying top 3...one from the Yotes hoping to grab him at 7....one from Tampa asking if Yzerman made a mistake taking Foote over Lil....one from pro hockey rumors saying Lil was ranked #2 behind Patrick.

Pre draft, Liljegren was highly regarded.

a canes blog you mean.

a coyotes blog you mean.

a lightning blog you mean.

and well "pro hockey rumors" well i dont think anyone knows what that even is.


a bunch of leafs fans screaming they got the next karlsson, a couple blogs, and a random site doesnt make a someone a top 3 prospect. there were probably 50 top 3 prospects if that were the case lol

 

[Liferleafer]

It's never a good idea to trade 1st rd picks. So for the Leafs to make Liljegren available, it tells you that he has been passed by Sandin on their depth chart. And given their need for a right handed D man, even more a tell I would say. Ideally I agree perhaps 3 years of AHL is the time you know what you are getting in a player. If a player does not pan out, the upside you are selling is no longer as valuable as say right now. This is the only thing to consider. Sort of like what happened to Koekkoek with you guys.

This is such bullshit. Tell, me, did the Oilers decide hall wasn't good? Did the Caps feel Forsberg had regressed? Are the Pens unhappy about dealing Kapanen for Kessel?

Again, teams offer good young pcs all the time to address needs. To say the Leafs now feel Liljegren is less valuable is laughable...like seriously man, do you read the shit you post?

 

[Liferleafer]

a canes blog you mean.

a coyotes blog you mean.

a lightning blog you mean.

and well "pro hockey rumors" well i dont think anyone knows what that even is.


a bucnh of leafs fans screaming they got the next karlsson, a couple blogs, and a random site doesnt make a someone a top 3 prospect. there were probably 50 top 3 prospects if that were the case lol

Well sure, because we all know that people who write for the Canes/Yotes/lightning only do it to make Toronto look good.

How about this:
2017 Mock Draft Dobber Prospects Liljegren #6
DobberProspects 2017 NHL Mock Draft

2017 Mock draft Sportsnet Liljegren #13
2017 NHL Mock Draft: No deficiencies in Nolan Patrick's game - Sportsnet.ca

2017 draft rankings Bobby Mac Liljegren #16
https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-draft-ranking-top-93-and-honourable-mentions-1.778987

2017 Mock Draft NHL.com Liljegren #8
https://www.nhl.com/news/mike-morreale-second-nhl-mock-draft-
projections-2017/c-289750810

These were all not long before the draft....and still ALL of them had Liljegren going before #17.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It does though? You said why doesn't he produce more and I told you why. Historically, the AHL isn't an easy league to produce in as a teenager and Liljegren has produced among the best.

His development has been encouraging based on his usage and nothing suggests he has regressed in anyway. This isn't to say he doesn't have his deficiencies in his game and he's not perfect, as is with most prospects.

If you think this is me overselling on his abilities, I don't know what to tell you as someone that has watched many Marlies games over the past 5 years. How many games have you seen?

Among the best? Then look at the the D men drafted just above and below Liljegren production as teenagers in the AHL right now. And none of these had the same offensive reputation Liljegren had entering the draft.

15th OA - Brannstrom - 30 GP 22 points.
16th OA - Valimaki - Made the 2nd best team currently in the NHL
18th OA - Vaakanainen 12GP 7 points

 

[SprDaVE]

Among the best? Then look at the the D men drafted just above and below Liljegren production as teenagers.

Brannstrom - 30 GP 22 points.
Valimaki - Made the 2nd best team currently in the NHL
Vaakanainen 12GP 7 points

All I said was that his 18 year old campaign was among the best producing AHL defenseman among 18 years old historically, and that's a fact. This season, he took a much larger role, playing much tougher matchups and on the top pairing with Rosen. Keefe said it was a huge loss to the Marlies when he was out for about 6 weeks.

None of the players you listed played in the AHL as 18 years old either. Brannstrom and Valimaki were picked before Liljegren. I never said other defenseman were bad nor did I say Liljegren was the best defenseman to ever play in the AHL or in the NHL or in the world or perfect in any way.

Keep moving the goal posts all you want and only look at point totals to oversee a players worth. This is great.