Recalled/Assigned: Lias Andersson - Part III (Loaned to SHL)

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Krams, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. Rangers743 Trust The Process

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    2013-2016 they had no firsts and they have constantly traded high round picks for years and they've still produced NHL talents. Not every team hits every time, Tampa gets guys like Kuch and Point in the 2nd and 3rd but took slater koekkoek 10th and Drouin 3rd. The rangers currently have the a top 5 prospect pool with guys like Kakko Igor and Fox all graduating. We don't have the best scouts in the NHL but they're certainly not as bad as you're acting.
     
  2. Riche16 McCready guitar god

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    They’re paid to have a vision of those we are bringing here. Hindsight has nothing to do with it.
     
  3. haohmaru boomshakalaka

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    It doesn't read that way at all.
     
  4. Fireonk Registered User

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    But that is true for all teams. They were real contenders between 2011-2015. They did SOMETHING right.

    How they come out of this rebuild will be the true measuring stick for Gorton.
     
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  5. haohmaru boomshakalaka

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    Actually, after re-reading what you wrote, you didn't say that he was a gem that we have found - you said "people" will say that these were gems. So, that's not even a viewpoint you're owning.

    Maybe it's not what you meant but it's what you said.
     
  6. Riche16 McCready guitar god

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    Contenders because of Hank.

    What they needed was scoring and this group of scouts passed on Tara for McIlrath.

    Then dealt for Nash. How’d that work out? Aside from dealing him :30 secs before he retired?

    You wanna know why we didn’t beat LA in 14? THATS f***ING WHY

    Andersson is par for the course with these guys but people let them off the hook constantly.
     
  7. Riche16 McCready guitar god

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    Um ok. I own a Kreider jersey... I can DM U a photo if u don’t believe me.

    When I said “people will point to...” it was knowing that some fans feel this scouting staff is acceptable and I don’t.

    At all. I blame them for 1 cup in 80 years.
     
  8. haohmaru boomshakalaka

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    Hey, if you scroll down and read the rest of my post I actually agreed with you. I think a large part of it is never being close to the top of the draft to get the sure-fire can't miss players like Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, etc...

    It's also the "win now" mentality that plagued this team for decades and trying to do that by jettisoning draft picks for the shiny new toy.

    I don't disagree with your premise at all - just saying that Gorton's tenure and rebuild (2017+) is too soon to evaluate the successes/failures of team building through the draft. Too early to tell.
     
  9. bigdog16 Registered User

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    The top players in the SHL simply couldnt crack it in NA, which is ultimately what matters. Its a different game here and a lot have trouble transitioning. The reason SHL numbers transfer to the NHL better is because top players dont really spend much time in the AHL.

    The playstyle in the SHL is similar to the NHL is because they have more room to work with. If you put the AHL on that ice rink you would see a similar product.
     
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  10. Riche16 McCready guitar god

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    I read the part where u agreed w me. I def agree with the evaluation of the win now mentality.
    My issue is that the Nash trade (not that it was a bad one although I was not a Nash fan) was a direct result of passing on Tara when we were starved for offense. So yes we didn’t have as many bullets in the 1st rd and AS SUCH when u do have them, u need to find something. We don’t seem to.

    I actually like Gorton. It’s Clarke I have issues with. Again, smartest guy in the room syndrome. Like taking Lindbom in the 2nd in 2018
     
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  11. Crease Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court

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    I think we can all agree that Gordie Clark is not good at drafting high-end players. 40-50 point guys? Fine I'll give him that.
     
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  12. East Coast Bias Registered User

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    Really didn’t plan on this moment being the peak in his Rangers career when I made it my profile pic in October.
     
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  13. nyr2k2 Can't Beat Him

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    I don't agree with any of your assessment of the AHL, but that's nothing new.

    And honestly, we've seen plenty of mediocre AHL and even ECHL guys go over to the SHL and play really well. Jodie Curran was garbage, an ECHL player, and now he's having his second consecutive awesome season in Sweden scoring almost a point per game (on D) and he's like third in the league. Ryan Lasch was a nobody here, and he's been a star in the SHL for years. Rodin couldn't hang in the AHL and he's killing it back home. There are a dozen or more examples of this each year. Different names, same story. And by the same token, tons of guys come from Sweden or other European countries after having great success and can't adapt, at all.

    But then some guys do adapt when coming over, and some North American guys of course fail when heading overseas. But the AHL as some sort of garbage bin league that just develops grinders? It's totally false. The whole narrative is off. In fact, the AHL is loaded with skill guys who play a skill game, but play it at a speed too slowly to succeed in the NHL. Look at some of the names rumored to move--Bracco, Borgstrom, Vorobeyev, Volkov, Barre-Boulet, for example--those are high-skill players who haven't been able to catch on in the NHL. And there are lots of other young players like them. And there are even MORE veteran skilled players who stick around to make a decent buck but never could make the NHL.

    So, there's lots of skill in the AHL. Lots of skilled players. And most teams play some variation of the NHL parent team's system. Sometimes you describe what you see in the AHL and I feel like I'm watching something completely different. I know you've mentioned that the league was viewed this way when you played, and guys you know had negative opinions of the league. Maybe it was true then? I don't see it now. The AHL is certainly not on par with the NHL in terms of skill, but no league is.

    I do agree that the SHL most closely mirrors the play style of the NHL outside of the AHL, which I have said many times. So I partially agree with you on that point.
     
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  14. Fireonk Registered User

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    And crappy draft positions because of Hank as well.

    You are just complaining all over the map. Terrible amateur scouting AND terrible pro scouting according to you. Both just can't be true and them be as competitive as they were, for as long as they were, in the cap era. Were they the gold standard of management? Of course not. But, they were farther away from being the opposite.

    Complain about the Nash trade coming in but glance over the return they got for a player that was ":30 secs" from retiring.

    Just feels like you are trying to push this narrative that they are the worst group of management in the league by only focusing on the negatives and not giving any credit for the positives.
     
  15. Riche16 McCready guitar god

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    I’m not pushing any narrative at all.

    I think our scouting is sub standard and we have been largely quite lucky w what we’ve done IN SPITE OF IT.

    Jessiman, Montoya, McIlrath, Andersson

    You change some of those picks and who knows.

    One thing is for sure, if u can’t draft well in the 1st rd you’re not winning it all. You may get close but not The Cup.
     
  16. Barnaby Registered User

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    Its easy to pull out draft screw ups and poor personnel decisions but you also have to look at their successes. For every Mcilrath or Lias you have a Kreider, Miller, or Buchnevich. I don’t think Nash or Gaborik were bad moves. The early return on Panarin is positive. Zibanejad was a great move. Ultimately they haven’t won more Championships which the ultimate barometer. My honest opinion is they’ve been painfully mediocre across the board.
     
  17. Barnaby Registered User

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    They never truly bottomed out. I don’t think their drafting is wonderful but they never really had that top 2 pick until Kakko. Whose a model franchise? Pitt? The Hawks? Caps? All those teams had some major dark times before the light.
     
  18. charliemurphy Registered User

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    Getzlaf
     
  19. Riche16 McCready guitar god

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    We had plenty of dark times before 1994

    Here we are again... always the dreaded middle. Too decent to not pick 1st... not good enough to win it all.

    Panarin may be the biggest mistake. We should’ve bottomed out hard this season
     
  20. Barnaby Registered User

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    I was not on board with Panarin at the time but the early returns are pleasant. The problem is there’s no guarantee with sucking with the draft lottery. I think they’re working on trying to build in the Boston model...we’ll see how it goes.
     
  21. Riche16 McCready guitar god

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    I want them to BUILD in the NYR model!

    Something everyone will want to copy in the coming years.

    But all they’re doing is playing neither side.
    The dreaded MIDDLE
     
  22. Barnaby Registered User

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    Well they acquired Zibanejad, drafted Shesterkin, and dealt for Fox/ADA. All relatively young guys who aren’t making max money. How often has this team had a true top line center and high end offensive defenseman? 1994? Sure they could have crapped the bed but they could finish 3rd from the bottom and wind up with the 6th pick and more mediocrity. They still need to acquire and develop talent. I agree that I have some concerns about their drafting...
     
  23. haveandare Registered User

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    Pens, Hawks and Caps have blown firsts since 2003 too though.
     
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  24. darko Registered User

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    What is the NYR model?
     
  25. Riche16 McCready guitar god

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    All teams that have had 1st overall and in years w generational talent.

    Id say apples to oranges but when it comes to NYR draft picks compared to those teams, its more like apples to horse shit.

    Let’s hope Kakko bucks that trend yeah?
     
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