Lets talk about William Nylander.

[DarkKnight]

It's the wrong opinion to hold but he has been pathetic and selfish. Unwilling to sacrifice his body whatsoever this series. Would you blame them? I hate him right now because his play has been disgusting. That doesn't mean I want to trade him though.

I can't believe how content you are to embarrass yourself relentlessly. Take a break dude, you're saying way more about yourself than any of your targets. Geez.

 

[thewave]

Wow holy overreaction. You said you hate a 21 year old kid,That’s the epitome of cowardice right there you can’t do something so you hate a kid who can but doesn’t do it exactly how you want.

You are only posting like this because you were very anti marner for a few months and you think going the opposite end to hating nylander makes you seem balanced

I said right now and that it's not making me want to trade them or be irrational with regards to them. There is not much to like about Nylander or Matthews this series. They are embarrassing our club. Matthews talking about the crest or whatever before and worthyness. What a joke.

You should probably hate them right now too. There ain't nothing to love about what they have done.

 

[saffronleaf]

They all are pretty much. You have to be a special kind of pathetic to get spanked and come back for seconds. Look at PHI, they got spanked and spanked back. It's not fun watching this product. They should be ashamed and the hockey world is rightfully laughing at them.

That's harsh. They just need to win Monday night and the series is competitive again.

 

[thewave]

I can't believe how content you are to embarrass yourself relentlessly. Take a break dude, you're saying way more about yourself than any of your targets. Geez.

Targets? By that you mean millionaire hockey players that decided they were going to check competitiveness at the door for the first two games in a row? Game 1, ok it happens... 2 blowouts in a row? Seriously. Does that even ever happen??

It did.

 

[Walshy7]

I said right now and that it's not making me want to trade them or be irrational with regards to them. There is not much to like about Nylander or Matthews this series. They are embarrassing our club. Matthews talking about the crest or whatever before and worthyness. What a joke.

You should probably hate them right now too. There ain't nothing to love about what they have done.

I don’t live my life through a sports team. So love and hate aren’t emotions that I attribute to the leafs. I enjoy watching them play they aren’t playing laying well right now so be it, they are overmatched. They will learn and be back next season I can see where they are trending they don’t need to win a cup this season or bust the core are 20-24 years old we will be more than ok

 

[ToneDog]

Some of called us soft in the season and said not to go for this year and sell. I also said a few times we can't compete with physical teams. This happened to a lesser extent multiple times this season.

Yup we have been a soft team all year long. Unfortunately we drew the short stick in round 1 and got the Bruins. All we can hope for is that the kids learn from this playoff experience and it makes them better players. The road to the Stanley Cup is not usually a smooth one.

 

[Legion34]

Lol did you even read my post that you quoted? I said it was a terrible mistake to not trade them in the offseason. We could've came to training camp with bare minimum another 1st and 2 2nds, with a roster looking like this:

Leivo-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen
Hyman-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Fehr-Komarov

Then we could've acquired any of the dmen traded this year, such as Cole (3rd), Vatanen (worth a 1st, playing as NJD's #1), Demers (got traded for McGinn, we could easily do better), or Methot (2nd rounder)

And maybe even acquired Letestu for the 4th line for a 4th. So if we got Vatanen, Methot and Letestu for similar prices, we come out with a 2nd in profit and a roster looking like this:

Leivo-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen
Hyman-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Letestu-Komarov
IR replacement: Johnsson

Rielly-Methot
Gardiner-Vatanen
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey/Carrick/Holl/Borgman

So yeah. A way better team was possible even this year if we sold off the 2 UFAs. This year was a pretty piss poor performance by Lou IMO.

Oh sorry. I don’t disagree that we could have traded jvr in the offseason. But once we get to the deadline you can’t sell as a top 5-8 team

 

[thewave]

That's harsh. They just need to win Monday night and the series is competitive again.

You're right, it better be f***ing good. They better be hockey gods with fire coming out their asses and decimate Boston. Not even joking, if this super team that we pumped several high picks in own rentals etc does this, just wow. Good luck retooling.

 

[thewave]

Yup we have been a soft team all year long. Unfortunately we drew the short stick in round 1 and got the Bruins. All we can hope for is that the kids learn from this playoff experience and it makes them better players. The road to the Stanley Cup is not usually a smooth one.

That's my other worry. You don't learn from thrashings. Thrashings destroy many young teams and that is very common on rebuilds. They should have got rid of the old losers except Kadri and Rielly and Jake. Even though Rielly has arguably been the worst D we have this series.

I hate this team, my team does not p***ycat out and get owned two games in a row. If we lose tomorrow, bad omen.

 

[realgoodleafs]

When/If we lose this series the hot takes to trade Nylander for a D will be out of control.

Kneejerk reactions and trying way too hard to fill a hole is how you end up with a Hall for Larsson situation.

It all depends on what you get in return. Hall for Larsson was bad but Johansen for Jones worked out.

 

[thewave]

I don’t live my life through a sports team. So love and hate aren’t emotions that I attribute to the leafs. I enjoy watching them play they aren’t playing laying well right now so be it, they are overmatched. They will learn and be back next season I can see where they are trending they don’t need to win a cup this season or bust the core are 20-24 years old we will be more than ok

Oh ffs dude lol. As if I am cursing them and stuff. People use powerful words like hate because they are being dramatic here. As if you actually believe I am boiling a witches brew and cursing their future offspring and all that.

You should hate how we performed as well. It was shameful to have happen two games in a row.

 

[Walshy7]

Oh ffs dude lol. As if I am cursing them and stuff. People use powerful words like hate because they are being dramatic here. As if you actually believe I am boiling a witches brew and cursing their future offspring and all that.

You should hate how we performed as well. It was shameful to have happen two games in a row.

Haha I can picture you over a caldron actually.

“Eye of newt, tongue of cow, grit of a bystander please add some to William Nylander”

 

[weems]

It all depends on what you get in return. Hall for Larsson was bad but Johansen for Jones worked out.

Yep thats very true so it depends on the player coming back if their equal in talent and age.

One outcome we get that D and everything works out and in the other scenario you end up getting totally abused and give up a star offensive talent for a top 4 D.

For me trading Nylander for a D should be the very last resort and we should be looking at all other avenues first.

Why can Vegas put together a decent functional D with a bunch of castoffs but we cant? I mean even Hainsey was looking like a great addition before Babcock wore him into the ground.

 

[thewave]

Haha I can picture you over a caldron actually.

“Eye of newt, tongue of cow, grit of a bystander please add some to William Nylander”

No man, no haha. Hey, I love Dermott! He has been flying and trying to use his body. He even has great numbers considering. Maybe our not Rookies need to try and do what Rookie Dermott is doing to try and win.

 

[Walshy7]

No man, no haha. Hey, I love Dermott! He has been flying and trying to use his body. He even has great numbers considering. Maybe our not Rookies need to try and do what Rookie Dermott is doing to try and win.

Dermott has always used his body to play d. You are asking matthews, nylander and marner to play how they have never played before. Maybe plekanec can start scoring hat tricks or Hyman can? No they will stick to what they are good at and the offensive players can stick to what they are good at. Unfortunately neither our Gud Pros nor our skilled pros are doing their jobs well enough to win against the bruins. It sucks for sure but wishing nylander will start throwing hits and playing with grit isn’t going to help us win

 

[thewave]

Dermott has always used his body to play d. You are asking matthews, nylander and marner to play how they have never played before. Maybe plekanec can start scoring hat tricks or Hyman can? No they will stick to what they are good at and the offensive players can stick to what they are good at. Unfortunately neither our Gud Pros nor our skilled pros are doing their jobs well enough to win against the bruins. It sucks for sure but wishing nylander will start throwing hits and playing with grit isn’t going to help us win

Not even throwing hits. Taking a hit to make a play. Getting in peoples way, being a pain to play against. Some smack talk, anger, passion.

Kappy even went in there playing the role. He was right engaged and Dermott. The rest look like they have nothing to offer and just don't care even if they do. They need to learn that you need to dig deep and do what is uncomfortable to win. Without it, we all suffer

 

[kindalaidback]

I remember when the Marlies lost their third game 8-2 to Hershey in the playoffs, and Willie scored a hat-trick to win us the next game 5-0. Not saying William will score a hat-trick, but I believe he will respond somehow. Hopefully. And Matthews, I hope, as well.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Targets? By that you mean millionaire hockey players that decided they were going to check competitiveness at the door for the first two games in a row? Game 1, ok it happens... 2 blowouts in a row? Seriously. Does that even ever happen??

It did.

As mentioned in other threads in 1993 pat burns’ team of Gud Pros got smoked in game 1&2 by Detroit. I feel like you were still a twinkle in your dads eye at that point though with the way you talk about this team.
Philly is getting creamed at home for the second game out of 3, are they gutless? Do their fans hate couts and provarov?
You are right about Matthews and Nylander though, they need to step up and be visible. Matthews at least has had glimpses, but Willy has been utterly invisible.

 

[Stephen]

Go to hockeydb and check the percentage of late seconds that "make" it. God knows the Leafs as an organisation have been terrible at drafting as a whole. There have been drafts where all our picks barely got a sniff of the NHL. If Pleks had a pulse nobody would be complaining about the pick. Unfortunately he is a zombie.

I think it's more complicated than that. Because even if you draft a second round bust, it's going to take a little while for actually realize whether he's a viable NHL prospect or not. Chances are he's going to have a few years in junior, the AHL, whatever, and at any point during that process, he's still going to carry a lot of value.

Take a guy like Tyler Benson for example. Have no idea what his NHL future is but I'm sure you could trade him for a rental or wait to develop him.

 

[Stephen]

I would much rather see what Nylander can do if you set him up with a brawny winger or power center to create space for him than cast him off because he hasn't won us a cup on his ELC. But that's just me. Maybe he just needs to be consistently "activated" by someone who can pull him into battle.

It may be that Matthews and Nylander together don't give you enough of a playoff dimension at this phase in their careers.

 

[weems]

When Brendan Shannahan said they were going to build this thing the right way, I certaintly didnt think that meant trading back to back 2nd rounders for rental 4th liners in Matthews first two seasons, not trading our flawed non core UFA's and trading William Nylander so we can fill a hole on D.

That actually looks like the exact opposite approach of what he said.

 

[Legion34]

When Brendan Shannahan said they were going to build this thing the right way, I certaintly didnt think that meant trading back to back 2nd rounders for rental 4th liners in Matthews first two seasons, not trading our flawed non core UFA's and trading William Nylander so we can fill a hole on D.

That actually looks like the exact opposite approach of what he said.

There were late seconds that they got from trading previous rentals. We have a million prospects. Picks are great but there is more too it than just draft. Buffalo Edmonton etc taught us this

 

[weems]

There were late seconds that they got from trading previous rentals. We have a million prospects. Picks are great but there is more too it than just draft. Buffalo Edmonton etc taught us this

Sure but throwing them away for 4th line centers and now one thats proven to be terrible is not great asset management and looks kind of short sighted imo.

Like I said earlier picks dont have to just be used for selecting a prospect, you can also use them in trades and right now everyone wants to trade for a frontline D and all those assets would help.

 

[Stephen]

There were late seconds that they got from trading previous rentals. We have a million prospects. Picks are great but there is more too it than just draft. Buffalo Edmonton etc taught us this

Just because we may have manufactured some extra 2nds out of Daniel Winnik doesn't mean it's a healthy and viable strategy to ship them off to Tampa and Montreal in successive years.

Boyle seemed tailor made for the playoff run last year, which was a great learning experience at the time. However, judging by their showing so far this year, it's not like that 6 game series was much of a stepping stone so far.

Plekanec is an unmitigated disaster. We would be much better off adding another Grundstrom, another Dermott than these short term little bunt trades. Or if we had just packaged 2 2nds off to someone, we'd probably have a better full time D or top nine forward.

Add that we're not likely getting anything for Bozak, JVR, Komarov and maybe Gardiner, all of a sudden we're not as deep as we want to be.

 

[Crosscrease14]

I'm a big Nylander fan, he does so many things well and is obviously offensively gifted. His play in the playoffs so far, however, has been uninspired and disapointing.

How can his agent reasonably ask for Pastranak money after this series? They're comparable in the regular season but in the playoffs, when it matters, they look like they are in different leagues.

That said he isn't the only leaf who has underwhelmed but he is supposed to be a star on this team and needs to start playing like one if he wants to be here long term.