Lets talk about William Nylander.

[weems]

Whomever pushed for the Plekanec trade is probably not the person you want running this organization. The trade was very Pat Quinn 2003-04 from the moment it was made and it's hurt the franchise to be frank. At this point Kerby Rychel would have been a superior NHL option to Plekanec. Rychel actually has as many points as Plekanec.

Either Babcock pushed for him or our pro scouts really misjudged what kind of player Plekanec was at this point.

At least with Boyle he gave us some much needed size.

 

[ToneDog]

It's the wrong opinion to hold but he has been pathetic and selfish. Unwilling to sacrifice his body whatsoever this series. Would you blame them? I hate him right now because his play has been disgusting. That doesn't mean I want to trade him though.

That is more than a bit harsh. You don't throw a kid under the bus because he has two poor performances against a more physical team. This is all part of the learning process and it is why playoff experience is so valuable.

 

[Stephen]

Either Babcock pushed for him or our pro scouts really misjudged what kind of player Plekanec was at this point.

At least with Boyle he gave us some much needed size.

They resemble senile Lou Lamoriello deals from around the 2006 lockout when he spent tons of money on guys like Mogilny, Malahkov, Matvichuk etc. and they all had to be Robidas'ed. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Lou.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Leave Hyman - Matthews - Nylander together for game 3 if possible. I don't like this reacting to them we are doing. They were a good line this year and should be given the bennefit of the doubt. If it's still not working then bump Hyman for one of Marner or Kappy and see what happens but Matthews - Nylander are great together

 

[thewave]

That is more than a bit harsh. You don't throw a kid under the bus because he has two poor performances against a more physical team. This is all part of the learning process and it is why playoff experience is so valuable.

I just don't respect cowardice. I am not a Matthews or Nylander fan right now. I am mad that they are playing like this. It doesn't mean trade but like f*** I would give Matthews 10m or William 6. Marner is the most gutsy of the 3 and that's messed up.

 

[ToneDog]

Whomever pushed for the Plekanec trade is probably not the person you want running this organization. The trade was very Pat Quinn 2003-04 from the moment it was made and it's hurt the franchise to be frank. At this point Kerby Rychel would have been a superior NHL option to Plekanec. Rychel actually has as many points as Plekanec.

You can't win all trades. This one looks like a mistake because Pleks is either not a good fit or done. Luckily it was only a minor deal.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

Luckily this management team will not be influenced by the Toronto media.

This. And anybody who suggests otherwise, please post your proof.

 

[ToneDog]

I just don't respect cowardice. I am not a Matthews or Nylander fan right now. I am mad that they are playing like this. It doesn't mean trade but like **** I would give Matthews 10m or William 6. Marner is the most gutsy of the 3 and that's messed up.

I have learned that you can't make rational decisions when you are upset.

I recall Kessel shying away from contact and look at him now. Nylander is not a coward.

 

[Stephen]

You can't win all trades. This one looks like a mistake because Pleks is either not a good fit or done. Luckily it was only a minor deal.

Unfortunately no, it wasn't a minor deal. The upside of Plekanec was always minor, but the 2nd round pick could have been used better in a number of different directions, whether trading up in the first, getting a sleeper prospect like Aho, Dermott, Carlo, Hart, Kyrou, etc. or packaging up for something more significant like a Rick Nash.

It was just a poorly thought out deal that looks poorly researched.

 

[weems]

Unfortunately no, it wasn't a minor deal. The upside of Plekanec was always minor, but the 2nd round pick could have been used better in a number of different directions, whether trading up in the first, getting a sleeper prospect like Aho, Dermott, Carlo, Hart, Kyrou, etc. or packaging up for something more significant like a Rick Nash.

It was just a poorly thought out deal that looks poorly researched.

It also could have been used in a deal for a D that EVERYONE is wishing for.

I'm talking at any point down the road.

Just a very reckless management of a very good asset and what makes it worse is it came just a year after we traded a 2nd for another 4th line C.

 

[ToneDog]

Unfortunately no, it wasn't a minor deal. The upside of Plekanec was always minor, but the 2nd round pick could have been used better in a number of different directions, whether trading up in the first, getting a sleeper prospect like Aho, Dermott, Carlo, Hart, Kyrou, etc. or packaging up for something more significant like a Rick Nash.

It was just a poorly thought out deal that looks poorly researched.

Draft picks are a crap shoot. There is no guarantee you are going to draft a Dermot with a late second. Yeah it would be nice to have as many darts as possible but a late second is not a big deal IMO.

 

[thewave]

I have learned that you can't make rational decisions when you are upset.

I recall Kessel shying away from contact and look at him now. Nylander is not a coward.

They all are pretty much. You have to be a special kind of pathetic to get spanked and come back for seconds. Look at PHI, they got spanked and spanked back. It's not fun watching this product. They should be ashamed and the hockey world is rightfully laughing at them.

 

[Stephen]

Draft picks are a crap shoot. There is no guarantee you are going to draft a Dermot with a late second. Yeah it would be nice to have as many darts as possible but a late second is not a big deal IMO.

Draft picks aren't a crap shoot at all. I'd argue that when you make a pick, there's hundreds of hours that goes into scouting, research and debate which is in your control, and then a multi year developmental process that allows you to hone the asset and turn it into something useful.

During that whole time, your 2nd round pick either retains value or gains value. Which gives you the flexibility of internal promotion, swapping out a more expensive contract for a cheaper younger player, or you can package the player off for a better rental.

With Boyle and Plekanec, we have nothing to show for it.

 

[ToneDog]

They all are pretty much. You have to be a special kind of pathetic to get spanked and come back for seconds. Look at PHI, they got spanked and spanked back. It's not fun watching this product. They should be ashamed and the hockey world is rightfully laughing at them.

Flyers are getting spanked again today. H0w many times did the Jays lose before winning two world series? Be patient.

 

[weems]

Draft picks aren't a crap shoot at all. I'd argue that when you make a pick, there's hundreds of hours that goes into scouting, research and debate which is in your control, and then a multi year developmental process that allows you to hone the asset and turn it into something useful.

During that whole time, your 2nd round pick either retains value or gains value. Which gives you the flexibility of internal promotion, swapping out a more expensive contract for a cheaper younger player, or you can package the player off for a better rental.

With Boyle and Plekanec, we have nothing to show for it.

I find it funny when people say draft picks are a crapshoot like they can ONLY be used to draft a player.

How bout we just kept that second rounder and used it in a future deal for a good player or use it at the deadline when our team is more suited to contend.

 

[ToneDog]

Draft picks aren't a crap shoot at all. I'd argue that when you make a pick, there's hundreds of hours that goes into scouting, research and debate which is in your control, and then a multi year developmental process that allows you to hone the asset and turn it into something useful.

During that whole time, your 2nd round pick either retains value or gains value. Which gives you the flexibility of internal promotion, swapping out a more expensive contract for a cheaper younger player, or you can package the player off for a better rental.

With Boyle and Plekanec, we have nothing to show for it.

Go to hockeydb and check the percentage of late seconds that "make" it. God knows the Leafs as an organisation have been terrible at drafting as a whole. There have been drafts where all our picks barely got a sniff of the NHL. If Pleks had a pulse nobody would be complaining about the pick. Unfortunately he is a zombie.

 

[weems]

Go to hockeydb and check the percentage of late seconds that "make" it. God knows the Leafs as an organisation have been terrible at drafting as a whole. There have been drafts where all our picks barely got a sniff of the NHL. If Pleks had a pulse nobody would be complaining about the pick. Unfortunately he is a zombie.

You can use picks in trades also.

 

[MR4]

We have tons of picks and prospects. We didn’t go all in on McDonagh Hamonic etc. You don’t do that. You don’t trade your top goal scorer for a pick at the deadline in a playoff spot. Look at the blues. Read Fleury book. It destroys teams.

Lol did you even read my post that you quoted? I said it was a terrible mistake to not trade them in the offseason. We could've came to training camp with bare minimum another 1st and 2 2nds, with a roster looking like this:

Leivo-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen
Hyman-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Fehr-Komarov

Then we could've acquired any of the dmen traded this year, such as Cole (3rd), Vatanen (worth a 1st, playing as NJD's #1), Demers (got traded for McGinn, we could easily do better), or Methot (2nd rounder)

And maybe even acquired Letestu for the 4th line for a 4th. So if we got Vatanen, Methot and Letestu for similar prices, we come out with a 2nd in profit and a roster looking like this:

Leivo-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen
Hyman-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Letestu-Komarov
IR replacement: Johnsson

Rielly-Methot
Gardiner-Vatanen
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey/Carrick/Holl/Borgman

So yeah. A way better team was possible even this year if we sold off the 2 UFAs. This year was a pretty piss poor performance by Lou IMO.

 

[ToneDog]

I find it funny when people say draft picks are a crapshoot like they can ONLY be used to draft a player.

How bout we just kept that second rounder and used it in a future deal for a good player or use it at the deadline when our team is more suited to contend.

Hindsight is 20/20. Who thought we would fold like a cheap tent before game 1 of this series ?

 

[ToneDog]

You can use picks in trades also.

Yeah and you might trade them for another Pleks. Shit happens. Not every deal is a winner.

 

[thewave]

Flyers are getting spanked again today. H0w many times did the Jays lose before winning two world series? Be patient.

I would accept tit for tat. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We could easily lay another egg.

 

[weems]

Hindsight is 20/20. Who thought we would fold like a cheap tent before game 1 of this series ?

Regardless that doesnt make throwing a 2nd rounder for a 4th liner any less questionable.

2nd round picks hold really strong value whether you want to use it to draft a guy or use it as a secondary piece in a good trade.

 

[Walshy7]

I just don't respect cowardice. I am not a Matthews or Nylander fan right now. I am mad that they are playing like this. It doesn't mean trade but like **** I would give Matthews 10m or William 6. Marner is the most gutsy of the 3 and that's messed up.

Wow holy overreaction. You said you hate a 21 year old kid,That’s the epitome of cowardice right there you can’t do something so you hate a kid who can but doesn’t do it exactly how you want.

You are only posting like this because you were very anti marner for a few months and you think going the opposite end to hating nylander makes you seem balanced

 

[weems]

Yeah and you might trade them for another Pleks. **** happens. Not every deal is a winner.

Sure anything is possible but saying "draft picks are a crapshoot" is pigeon holeing that asset into just being something you can use for drafting which is untrue.

 

[thewave]

Hindsight is 20/20. Who thought we would fold like a cheap tent before game 1 of this series ?

Some of called us soft in the season and said not to go for this year and sell. I also said a few times we can't compete with physical teams. This happened to a lesser extent multiple times this season.