Lets talk about William Nylander.

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Cory Kennedy, Mar 25, 2018.

View Users: View Users
  1. weems

    weems Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    14,011
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    Either Babcock pushed for him or our pro scouts really misjudged what kind of player Plekanec was at this point.

    At least with Boyle he gave us some much needed size.
     
    Pocket Hercules likes this.
  2. ToneDog

    ToneDog Voice of Reason

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    3,862
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, ON
    That is more than a bit harsh. You don't throw a kid under the bus because he has two poor performances against a more physical team. This is all part of the learning process and it is why playoff experience is so valuable.
     
  3. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    44,981
    Likes Received:
    1,808
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Home Page:
    They resemble senile Lou Lamoriello deals from around the 2006 lockout when he spent tons of money on guys like Mogilny, Malahkov, Matvichuk etc. and they all had to be Robidas'ed. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Lou.
     
    cookie and weems like this.
  4. HellasLEAF

    HellasLEAF Auston 20:16

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    14,089
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Leave Hyman - Matthews - Nylander together for game 3 if possible. I don't like this reacting to them we are doing. They were a good line this year and should be given the bennefit of the doubt. If it's still not working then bump Hyman for one of Marner or Kappy and see what happens but Matthews - Nylander are great together
     
  5. thewave

    thewave Your safe space is 1 click away cowards!

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,959
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    Trophy Points:
    139
    I just don't respect cowardice. I am not a Matthews or Nylander fan right now. I am mad that they are playing like this. It doesn't mean trade but like **** I would give Matthews 10m or William 6. Marner is the most gutsy of the 3 and that's messed up.
     
  6. ToneDog

    ToneDog Voice of Reason

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    3,862
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, ON
    You can't win all trades. This one looks like a mistake because Pleks is either not a good fit or done. Luckily it was only a minor deal.
     
  7. Pocket Hercules

    Pocket Hercules Business in the front, party in the back.

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,971
    Likes Received:
    635
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Location:
    York Region
    This. And anybody who suggests otherwise, please post your proof.
     
  8. ToneDog

    ToneDog Voice of Reason

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    3,862
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, ON
    I have learned that you can't make rational decisions when you are upset.

    I recall Kessel shying away from contact and look at him now. Nylander is not a coward.
     
  9. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    44,981
    Likes Received:
    1,808
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Home Page:
    Unfortunately no, it wasn't a minor deal. The upside of Plekanec was always minor, but the 2nd round pick could have been used better in a number of different directions, whether trading up in the first, getting a sleeper prospect like Aho, Dermott, Carlo, Hart, Kyrou, etc. or packaging up for something more significant like a Rick Nash.

    It was just a poorly thought out deal that looks poorly researched.
     
    weems and Pocket Hercules like this.
  10. weems

    weems Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    14,011
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    It also could have been used in a deal for a D that EVERYONE is wishing for.

    I'm talking at any point down the road.

    Just a very reckless management of a very good asset and what makes it worse is it came just a year after we traded a 2nd for another 4th line C.
     
  11. ToneDog

    ToneDog Voice of Reason

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    3,862
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, ON
    Draft picks are a crap shoot. There is no guarantee you are going to draft a Dermot with a late second. Yeah it would be nice to have as many darts as possible but a late second is not a big deal IMO.
     
  12. thewave

    thewave Your safe space is 1 click away cowards!

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,959
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    Trophy Points:
    139
    They all are pretty much. You have to be a special kind of pathetic to get spanked and come back for seconds. Look at PHI, they got spanked and spanked back. It's not fun watching this product. They should be ashamed and the hockey world is rightfully laughing at them.
     
  13. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    44,981
    Likes Received:
    1,808
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Home Page:
    Draft picks aren't a crap shoot at all. I'd argue that when you make a pick, there's hundreds of hours that goes into scouting, research and debate which is in your control, and then a multi year developmental process that allows you to hone the asset and turn it into something useful.

    During that whole time, your 2nd round pick either retains value or gains value. Which gives you the flexibility of internal promotion, swapping out a more expensive contract for a cheaper younger player, or you can package the player off for a better rental.

    With Boyle and Plekanec, we have nothing to show for it.
     
    Menzinger and weems like this.
  14. ToneDog

    ToneDog Voice of Reason

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    3,862
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, ON
    Flyers are getting spanked again today. H0w many times did the Jays lose before winning two world series? Be patient.
     
  15. weems

    weems Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    14,011
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    I find it funny when people say draft picks are a crapshoot like they can ONLY be used to draft a player.

    How bout we just kept that second rounder and used it in a future deal for a good player or use it at the deadline when our team is more suited to contend.
     
    Menzinger likes this.
  16. ToneDog

    ToneDog Voice of Reason

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    3,862
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, ON
    Go to hockeydb and check the percentage of late seconds that "make" it. God knows the Leafs as an organisation have been terrible at drafting as a whole. There have been drafts where all our picks barely got a sniff of the NHL. If Pleks had a pulse nobody would be complaining about the pick. Unfortunately he is a zombie.
     
  17. weems

    weems Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    14,011
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    You can use picks in trades also.
     
  18. MR4

    MR4 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Messages:
    6,343
    Likes Received:
    2,186
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Lol did you even read my post that you quoted? I said it was a terrible mistake to not trade them in the offseason. We could've came to training camp with bare minimum another 1st and 2 2nds, with a roster looking like this:

    Leivo-Matthews-Marner
    Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen
    Hyman-Kadri-Brown
    Martin-Fehr-Komarov

    Then we could've acquired any of the dmen traded this year, such as Cole (3rd), Vatanen (worth a 1st, playing as NJD's #1), Demers (got traded for McGinn, we could easily do better), or Methot (2nd rounder)

    And maybe even acquired Letestu for the 4th line for a 4th. So if we got Vatanen, Methot and Letestu for similar prices, we come out with a 2nd in profit and a roster looking like this:

    Leivo-Matthews-Marner
    Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen
    Hyman-Kadri-Brown
    Martin-Letestu-Komarov
    IR replacement: Johnsson

    Rielly-Methot
    Gardiner-Vatanen
    Dermott-Zaitsev
    Hainsey/Carrick/Holl/Borgman

    So yeah. A way better team was possible even this year if we sold off the 2 UFAs. This year was a pretty piss poor performance by Lou IMO.
     
    weems likes this.
  19. ToneDog

    ToneDog Voice of Reason

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    3,862
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, ON
    Hindsight is 20/20. Who thought we would fold like a cheap tent before game 1 of this series ?
     
  20. ToneDog

    ToneDog Voice of Reason

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    3,862
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, ON
    Yeah and you might trade them for another Pleks. **** happens. Not every deal is a winner.
     
  21. thewave

    thewave Your safe space is 1 click away cowards!

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,959
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    Trophy Points:
    139
    I would accept tit for tat. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We could easily lay another egg.
     
  22. weems

    weems Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    14,011
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    Regardless that doesnt make throwing a 2nd rounder for a 4th liner any less questionable.

    2nd round picks hold really strong value whether you want to use it to draft a guy or use it as a secondary piece in a good trade.
     
  23. Walshy7

    Walshy7 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    17,365
    Likes Received:
    2,908
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Location:
    Toronto
    Wow holy overreaction. You said you hate a 21 year old kid,That’s the epitome of cowardice right there you can’t do something so you hate a kid who can but doesn’t do it exactly how you want.

    You are only posting like this because you were very anti marner for a few months and you think going the opposite end to hating nylander makes you seem balanced
     
    weems and Menzinger like this.
  24. weems

    weems Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    Messages:
    14,011
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure anything is possible but saying "draft picks are a crapshoot" is pigeon holeing that asset into just being something you can use for drafting which is untrue.
     
  25. thewave

    thewave Your safe space is 1 click away cowards!

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,959
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Some of called us soft in the season and said not to go for this year and sell. I also said a few times we can't compete with physical teams. This happened to a lesser extent multiple times this season.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"