Lets talk about William Nylander.

[kindalaidback]

Arguing with 666 and Discordia is like arguing with dumb relatives. It's pointless.

he does if he wants big money.

We don't even know what William wants, because he has not talked about it. he might wanna stay on Matthews' wing because he clearly enjoys playing with him.

Garbage production. He's a coat-tail rider like Hyman who plays on the powerplay.

He was in a slump going into November and also played at center this March, a position he has barely played in two years, and he had to focus a lot more on his defense or otherwise, someone like Malkin would've run him over.

I call bull****.

Wanted to quote Babcock, but IBeL13F was quicker.


I wanna thank that one user who posted these numbers for everyone to see:

Auston Matthews
With Nylander: 3.22
Without Nylander: 1.83

William Nylander
With Matthews: 2.71
Without Matthews: 1.86

Oh no, this can't be true, right?



Nylander has a better CF/60 than Matthews? But he is just a PrOdUcT oF mATtHeWs!!1111!!!! You know what I see here? Two players having insane chemistry, complementing each other and making the other better.

 

[Menzinger]

The idea that Nylander can’t score without Matthews is amusing.

It’s as if folks have already forgotten Matthews 13ish game scoring slump at the end of last season where Nylander went almost PPG (and likely helped save the Leafs playoff spot that year).

 

[Menzinger]

Arguing with 666 and Discordia is like arguing with dumb relatives. It's pointless.


We don't even know what William wants, because he has not talked about it. he might wanna stay on Matthews' wing because he clearly enjoys playing with him.


He was in a slump going into November and also played at center this March, a position he has barely played in two years, and he had to focus a lot more on his defense or otherwise, someone like Malkin would've run him over.


Wanted to quote Babcock, but IBeL13F was quicker.


I wanna thank that one user who posted these numbers for everyone to see:



Oh no, this can't be true, right?



Nylander has a better CF/60 than Matthews? But he is just a PrOdUcT oF mATtHeWs!!1111!!!! You know what I see here? Two players having insane chemistry, complementing each other and making the other better.

They’re clearly one of the most effective tandems in the NHL (especially at even strength), and make one another better on the ice.

This narrative that Nylander is just “along for the ride” on the line is laughable.

 

[meefer]

Who said anything about ceiling. He's a 50 point second line center right now and should get paid like one for his next contract which starts next season.

I've always said he's similar to Kadri.

And yet he's played like a 1st line winger for the majority of his career. He's also played like a first line center in the AHL, comparable to many others who've transitioned to 1st line status. Not to mention a gold medal and MVP while playing for Sweden. 20 games is a small sample size to suggest he's a 2nd line C.

 

[Havoc]

I appreciate the civil discussion and respect your opinion but you've got it wrong.

Nylander's contract is up. It is highly likely that he will replace Bozak next year as a 2nd/3rd line C. If you don't agree with that then that's cool because it certainly isn't guaranteed. It would appear that he's got the ability to do that job, he'll probably get it and so he'll probably get paid like it.

He's certainly not going to be getting first line center money or elite first line winger money like Laine.

He is what he is. Who he plays with doesn't change that. Same for Hyman (a third liner), same for Marner (an elite first line winger that can carry his own line), same for everyone. That's how it works. Lou knows this.

Why does Marner get a pass as an elite first line winger but Nylander doesn't?

Marner needs players to help create the space for him at this point of his career. Kadri and Marleau did this. Otherwise he was on pace for 10 goals.

Nylander gets this from Matthews, especially starting from the defensive zone.

Take Kadri and Marleau away from Marner and he does not look the same 5 on 5. Take Matthews away from Nylander and he doesn't look the same.

Moreover, The Nylander-Marner combo did nothing. If Marner can drive a line, him and Nylander should have lit it up . In contrast they got man-handled every time they were out. Marner passed to absolutely no one. All his passes got picked off.

In conclusion there will be multiple factors taken into account. His first line ability will be one of them. I honestly don't see 2/3rd line being a reason why he doesn't get Laine money. Laine's shot, one-timer and size is why he won't get Laine money.

The first line facet guarantees 6 mil is the minimum. I don't see him getting over 7 when Pastrnak and Ehlers are in the 6 mil range. Pastrnak has back to back 3o goal seasons.

The real question is, does he get the low end of 6 mil like Ehlers, or high end like Pastrnak. That one is tough. I don't see why Nylander wouldn't have 80+ points playing with Marchand and Bergeron 5 on 5 and on the powerplay.

I guess I don't disagree with your salary expectations unless you're suggesting he is getting Kadri and Bozak money. I just don't understand the labels you are putting on Nylander.

 

[Discordia]

It's literally the headline of the first article I clicked on:
Mike Babcock on William Nylander: "I thought he played one of his best games in our lineup at center head-to-head against Malkin" | Maple Leafs Hotstove

Nothing about him being the most improved over last season.

Right after that game against Pitts. he had a horrible showing and got benched. Then got removed from center.

 

[Klinton]

He still has nice hair if anyone is wondering?

 

[Sittler 27]

Funny thread,

 

[mapleleaf979]

Marner needs players to help create the space for him at this point of his career. Kadri and Marleau did this. Otherwise he was on pace for 10 goals.

Moreover, The Nylander-Marner combo did nothing. If Marner can drive a line, him and Nylander should have lit it up . In contrast they got man-handled every time they were out. Marner passed to absolutely no one. All his passes got

The real question is, does he get the low end of 6 mil like Ehlers, or high end like Pastrnak. That one is tough. I don't see why Nylander wouldn't have 80+ points playing with Marchand and Bergeron

Marner does not need players to create space for him. He creates space for them thru his skating, stick handling and no one having any idea what his next move will be.... then his vision makes a play. Marner has skill but u know why he runs his line and Nylander can not? Compete level and all the sub titles like ambition, will, determination, etc. Compete level = trust in Babcocks head. This is why he loves Hyman, Brown, Komarov. The 3 hardest workers on the squad.

Nylander seems to work very little to create chemistry with his line-mates when moved away from Matthews. In a 3rd and 4th line role, he chose to blend in and dumb down his talents vs raising the bar for his linemates. A bit of roulette with the coach aka move me down the lineup and ill be sub par and force ur hand.

Nylander deserves nothing higher than 6 million. Ehlers is a fair comparison.

Dont be surprised to see Nylander traded in the next 2-3 years if the current template isnt working. He is the chip for a Centerman or D-man. He will have to prove to be a superior defensive centerman to Kadri to ever take the #2 spot. Seems distant right now. Paying him 6 million to be a 3c is not smart. He seems locked on Matthews wing, his shot helps open up his playmaking skills, which helps Matthews. Matthews needs a playmaker on his wing, Nylander, Marner and Bracco are the top 3 playmakers in the system.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Marner does not need players to create space for him. He creates space for them thru his skating, stick handling and no one having any idea what his next move will be.... then his vision makes a play. Marner has skill but u know why he runs his line and Nylander can not? Compete level and all the sub titles like ambition, will, determination, etc. Compete level = trust in Babcocks head. This is why he loves Hyman, Brown, Komarov. The 3 hardest workers on the squad.

Nylander seems to work very little to create chemistry with his line-mates when moved away from Matthews. In a 3rd and 4th line role, he chose to blend in and dumb down his talents vs raising the bar for his linemates. A bit of roulette with the coach aka move me down the lineup and ill be sub par and force ur hand.

Nylander deserves nothing higher than 6 million. Ehlers is a fair comparison.

Dont be surprised to see Nylander traded in the next 2-3 years if the current template isnt working. He is the chip for a Centerman or D-man.

Too bad it took you so many words to whiff so badly.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Marner has skill but u know why he runs his line and Nylander can not?

Because this happens in your fantasy land.

There's no statistical support for saying that Marner can run a line and Nylander can't. None.

Over the course of two seasons, the two are virtually even in every regard except for micro stats, where Nylander has a significant advantage.

 

[Discordia]

Because this happens in your fantasy land.

There's no statistical support for saying that Marner can run a line and Nylander can't. None.

Over the course of two seasons, the two are virtually even in every regard except for micro stats, where Nylander has a significant advantage.

Except when he's been put in a position to drive his line he has done absolutely nothing. His PPG w/o Matthews is disgustingly bad for someone with his hype.

I was his biggest fan on this board - but he's a passenger winger.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Minus Will?

 

[kindalaidback]

A few things I've learned the past two-ish days:

- Willie is dependent on Auston to be a good player because w/o Austy he would not even have 61 points ---> a product of Matthews
- he cannot drive his own line
- he has not shown any development this season- actually, no development in an entire year
- he has a very weak IQ and no vision
- the Leafs organization does not know if he will ever score more than 61 points that is why he should get less term and money
- he will be traded for a defenseman
- he will never be elite and a superstar

I've come to the conclusion that William Nylander should retire after tonight's game because he will never be good enough for this league. What a bum!

 

[Duke16]

He still has nice hair if anyone is wondering?

what about now?

 

[Byron Bitz]

if he doesn’t have a good playoff our initial offer should be 5.5 x 7 and if he holds out go up a bit but no higher than 6.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Except when he's been put in a position to drive his line he has done absolutely nothing. His PPG w/o Matthews is disgustingly bad for someone with his hype.

I was his biggest fan on this board - but he's a passenger winger.

His point pace without Matthews over his NHL career is over 50, and that is during his 19-21 years while mostly playing with guys that are either out of the league like Greening, or complementary pieces like Hyman and Brown. Even so, he's been directly contributing to shot attempts, relieving pressure on defense, and transitioning the puck into offense at an elite level even without Matthews.

if he doesn’t have a good playoff our initial offer should be 5.5 x 7 and if he holds out go up a bit but no higher than 6.

So we should lowball him and not accept any deal that even approaches any comparable? Good idea, if the purpose is to alienate our core players.

 

[MattySnipes]

He creates space for them thru his skating, stick handling and no one having any idea what his next move will be.... then his vision makes a play.

um..so Nylander does the exact same thing. Have you been watching him play the last few years?

 

[pengdeng12]

2 ways I know a person doesn't know hockey at all: 1) If one think Marner > Nylander; 2) if one think Gardiner is not a good dman

 

[Menzinger]

I love Marner (as much as Nylander) but the claim that he “drives” a line while Nylander doesn't isn’t grounded in reality.

Marner having 7 more PP points than Nylander this season doesn’t make him a tier above him either.

 

[authentic]

The idea that Nylander can’t score without Matthews is amusing.

It’s as if folks have already forgotten Matthews 13ish game scoring slump at the end of last season where Nylander went almost PPG (and likely helped save the Leafs playoff spot that year).

His 13 game scoring drought was at the beginning of the season. Started in game #7 and ended on game #20.

Auston Matthews 2016-17 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[authentic]

2 ways I know a person doesn't know hockey at all: 1) If one think Marner > Nylander; 2) if one think Gardiner is not a good dman

Marner is better, but the difference is not big at all. Also Gardiner is obviously a good defenseman, but he's not elite by any means.

 

[Walshy7]

I love Marner (as much as Nylander) but the claim that he “drives” a line while Nylander doesn't isn’t grounded in reality.

Marner having 7 more PP points than Nylander this season doesn’t make him a tier above him either.

I have noticed when marner isn't scoring a lot of posts blaming his linemates, first it was JVR and bozaks fault. Then he moved and really started lighting it up with kadri which was fantastic both dropped off toward the last 10 or so games of the season and I was seeing some posts saying kadri is responsible for marner not reaching 70 points.

Last season I saw a lot of main board posters and nylander disliking leafs posters claim he was a pp specialist, so nylander goes out and puts up 49 EV strength points and his pp numbers decline. The pp decline is not due to Matthews or nylander it is the personnel choices with them, komarov should not be on the ice for a pp and the season he just had brown shouldn't have been out there but there were times both were there at the same time. Meanwhile a player who was drafted and developed as a scoring forward was only getting 4th line ice time, Kapanen should have been on that unit there is no doubt in my mind maybe even instead of marleau who was pretty poor this year on the pp especially. We were essentially asking Nylander and Matthews along with gardiner (typically) to run a pp with the 3 of them while we had komarov and marleau as net front presence 3 players controlling a pp will get shut down. The 1st unit outside of maybe bozak the 4 other players all can contribute with skill to a pp goal.

 

[Swedish Gretzky]

And all you guys think on this board nylander is gonna get paid the same as pastrnak.. know nothing.

Hes in another level.

 

[MattySnipes]

One of my favourite Leafs but he has to get his head outta his ass. He has been garbage through two games thus far. Pasta is embarrassing Willy.