Value of: Leon Draisaitl

[North Man]

Hes actually a 34 point player without gaudreau.

You've mentioned this like 4 times in the thread already, but fail to acknowledge that was Monahan's 18 year old rookie season.

Remind me how Draisaitl's draft+1 season went.

 

[Fourier]

No it's a useless stat as it doesn't take any context into account and has been widely debunked as useless.

Context is the key word here. You may want to give some thought to what that means. P/60 has significant flaws and it is generally misused just as you have badly misused the stats you posted. But when it comes the question of a player's actual point generation with and without a team mate it is most definitely useful despite not being perfect. We're not comparing a 1C to a fourth liner here. Nor are the sample sizes small.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Devastating?

Devastating.

Poor form to not quote a guy too. Don’t hide.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

You've mentioned this like 4 times in the thread already, but fail to acknowledge that was Monahan's 18 year old rookie season.

Remind me how Draisaitl's draft+1 season went.

It's also his only season without Gaudreau, so we dont know how he would do carrying his own line, so that is what we have to go off, if Draisaitl keeps getting called a 50 point player.

 

[Del Preston]

Prove it. Not including PP with McDavid prove it.

The Oilers are like every other team in the league and stack their PP lines with their best players. CM and LD are also paired together for 4-on-4 and 3-on-3 because they are one of the best duos in the league.

Draisaitl scored at a rate of 2.01 pts/60 last season away from McDavid at 5-on-5 (21 points in 628:25). If he maintained this over his 78 games that means 64 points. Post #161 (which was in response to you) has the numbers: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/148524387/

Across all situations Draisaitl's scoring rate was 2.23 pts/60 without McDavid (27 points in 726:03, with zero on the PP). If his rate stayed at this number for 78 games that would be 56 points (none being PP points).

Without McDavid Draisaitl posts barely 50% at SF%, 42% at GF%, barely 50% at CF%, net negative CF% of 49% and hdcf of 47%.
In 16/17 those numbers were even worse when he was well below the median in every category away from McDavid, with McDavid he is positive in every single category, so do tell how is that possible if McDavid doesn't significantly affect how Leon looks and performs on the ice?

It is not a surprise the best player in the world can sustain his numbers when taken away from Draisaitl. Leon is like 99% of players in the league whose numbers decrease when he plays with an inferior replacement. Nathan MacKinnon's aren't very good when he's not playing with Landeskog. In 303:21 of 5-on-5 without him last season MacKinnon had a 49% CF%, 47% SF%, 39% GF%, 41% HDCF%, and only 9 points (1.78 pts/60).

 

[ChaoticOrange]

What a moronic argument. The Oilers do this thing that virtually every other team in the league does by stacking their PP lines with their best players.

It's been shown multiple times in here that Draisaitl was on pace for 64 points in 78 games last season if he didn't play a single second of 5-on-5 time with McDavid. That's pretty damn good.

Sean Monahan scored 2 of his 64 points last season while Gaudreau wasn't on the ice. What's your opinion on that?

About now is when he will ghost the thread, only to come back in five pages asking ‘but where’s the EVIDENCE’

Like there isn’t enough solid ammunition for these tits to mock the Oilers about, you have to try to make a mountain out of a molehill with Draisaitl? Puck easier targets ya maroons. We’re paying Lucic, Sekera, and Russell a combined 16 mil, but somehow Draisaitl’s a problem?

 

[Scott Stevens]

About now is when he will ghost the thread, only to come back in five pages asking ‘but where’s the EVIDENCE’

Like there isn’t enough solid ammunition for these **** to mock the Oilers about, you have to try to make a mountain out of a molehill with Draisaitl? Puck easier targets ya maroons. We’re paying Lucic, Sekera, and Russell a combined 16 mil, but somehow Draisaitl’s a problem?

I’d say roughly draisaitl is worth marner and well more than nylander

Using common hf barometer players

 

[LTIR]

You've mentioned this like 4 times in the thread already, but fail to acknowledge that was Monahan's 18 year old rookie season.

Remind me how Draisaitl's draft+1 season went.

Pretty sure Draisaitl was the memorial cup MVP in his draft +1 season. He won it despite his team not winning the cup ..so yeh.. he was pretty dominating
..

 

[yababy]

If his rate stayed at this number for 78 games that would be 56 points (none being PP points).

56 even strength points plus pp?
I'll take it

 

[TFHockey]

About now is when he will ghost the thread, only to come back in five pages asking ‘but where’s the EVIDENCE’

Like there isn’t enough solid ammunition for these **** to mock the Oilers about, you have to try to make a mountain out of a molehill with Draisaitl? Puck easier targets ya maroons. We’re paying Lucic, Sekera, and Russell a combined 16 mil, but somehow Draisaitl’s a problem?

Yup, this.

Edmonton's cap problems have been aggravated by these contracts and a few others, like signing a back up goalie for $2.5 Million out of the KHL, or unnecessary buyouts. McDavid and Draisaitl take up a lot of cap room. This should've prompted Chairelli to be more careful with other contracts.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

Is this like the time Leafs fans claimed Kessel would hit 50 goals playing with Crosby . Or like the time Hall could not play with McDavid . Eberle and Lucic couldn't either . Not all players mesh and if a player meshes with another player ( In this case McDavid ) How can fans view that as a negative ? Makes no sense . Every player in the NHL depends on his line mates . No discussion . Let me know the next time a player wins anything by himself .

To be fair kessel never played much with Crosby, mostly with Geno.

But I Still remember that and it's a good point. Part of me still feels like he should have a 50 goal season. He still hit that next level we all said he would (Conn Symthe Playoff run)

 

[bucks_oil]

Leon Draisaitl is not a $8.5M/year hockey player right now but in a few years that might look like a bargain contract kinda like Taylor Hall's is today. We can only hope.

I dunno about that. Would you rather have Evander Kane at 7M x 7 or Stone at 7.35M x 1? Tavares at 8 x 11M?

What other name brand forward that signed/extended in the past 12 months would you prefer? Draisaitl is clearly better than Kane/Stone and not as established as Tavares. Wouldn't that make his contract about market?

 

[ManofSteel55]

I dunno about that. Would you rather have Kane at 7M x 7 or Stone at 7.35M x 1? Tavares at 8 x 11M?

What other name brand forward that signed/extended in the past 12 months would you prefer? Draisaitl is clearly better than Kane/Stone and not as established as Tavares. Wouldn't that make his contract about market?

I think its a stretch saying that Drai is better than Kane.

 

[t0nedeff]

Worst type of arguments on these boards.

You can't have an opinion on a player if you have a player in a similar situation on your team.

What opinion? Its a Flames fan coming in here ignoring all the factual evidence of why Drais has played like a number 1 center away from Mcdavid to prolong his agenda. All I did was point out the fact that by going by his logic Monohan is essentially a 3rd line center. You can't come into an argument and spout a bunch of shit when if this had been a monohan thread he'd be arguing the exact opposite of what he's arguing in an Oilers player thread. Not hard to understand the logic in all of this except your intention was just to stir the pot without adding anything to the discussion.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think its a stretch saying that Drai is better than Kane.

Think he's talking about Evander Kane, not Patrick. I'd say he's definitely better than Evander. Or are you saying you think Evander is better?

 

[ManofSteel55]

Think he's talking about Evander Kane, not Patrick. I'd say he's definitely better than Evander. Or are you saying you think Evander is better?

No, just brain farted and assumed Patrick, lol.

 

[bucks_oil]

I think its a stretch saying that Drai is better than Kane.

Kane, Evander, he of the shiny new contract... I'll edit to make it more clear.

 

[bucks_oil]

Think he's talking about Evander Kane, not Patrick. I'd say he's definitely better than Evander. Or are you saying you think Evander is better?

Yes thanks... my bad.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

About now is when he will ghost the thread, only to come back in five pages asking ‘but where’s the EVIDENCE’

Like there isn’t enough solid ammunition for these **** to mock the Oilers about, you have to try to make a mountain out of a molehill with Draisaitl? Puck easier targets ya maroons. We’re paying Lucic, Sekera, and Russell a combined 16 mil, but somehow Draisaitl’s a problem?

Even funnier is by that evidence not including PP with McDavid Drai is... oh wait a 56 point player. We will throw that out the window though, so without McDavid he is a 64 point player that you guys are paying 8.5M a year for. And you are ok with that.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

What opinion? Its a Flames fan coming in here ignoring all the factual evidence of why Drais has played like a number 1 center away from Mcdavid to prolong his agenda.

LOL! Someone just totally proved by the numbers Drai posts second line C numbers not even a few posts before and you come back with this? Well played sir lol.

 

[bucks_oil]

Even funnier is by that evidence not including PP with McDavid Drai is... oh wait a 56 point player. We will throw that out the window though, so without McDavid he is a 64 point player that you guys are paying 8.5M a year for. And you are ok with that.

65 points as our second line C with the way that Drai plays, his size, face-offs and defensive play?

When E. Kane and Stone are signed in this league for 7M+... and I get to pay that 8.5 for max term?

I'm incredibly ok with that. It's a pretty nice downside in a league where salaries are escalating 6%++ per year.

Drai's contract is going to be considered one of the best in the league by 2020.... 80 point 2nd line C, who is a coaches dream.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

65 points as our second line C with the way that Drai plays, his size, face-offs and defensive play?

When E. Kane and Stone are signed in this league for 7M+... and I get to pay that 8.5 for max term?

I'm incredibly ok with that. It's a pretty nice downside in a league where salaries are escalating 6%++ per year.

Drai's contract is going to be considered one of the best in the league by 2020.... 80 point 2nd line C, who is a coaches dream.

Bawhaha, unless he is married to McDavid there is ZERO chance he ever sniffs 80 points as a 2nd line C. That is ridiculous!

 

[bucks_oil]

Bawhaha, unless he is married to McDavid there is ZERO chance he ever sniffs 80 points as a 2nd line C. That is ridiculous!

We'll see I guess. If he puts his EV performance at C in 2017/18 together with his PP from 2016/17 and plays a full season he'll be there.

 

[McNuge]

Bawhaha, unless he is married to McDavid there is ZERO chance he ever sniffs 80 points as a 2nd line C. That is ridiculous!

Gotta make sure we subtract all the points Crosby and Malkin produce together to get their true value too eh? There is a reason they play together, because they are EASILY the best duo in the entire NHL.

Such stupid comments on here "herp derp he plays with McDavid, he must be shit away from him"... They play together because they compliment each other in the best ways possible. Puts up 77 points and 70 yet there is ZERO chance he gets 80? What a stupid comment. He will be playing with McDavid at points every single year, be it on the PP, PK, or OT. They play together because of how good they are together.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Gotta make sure we subtract all the points Crosby and Malkin produce together to get their true value too eh? There is a reason they play together, because they are EASILY the best duo in the entire NHL.

Such stupid comments on here "herp derp he plays with McDavid, he must be **** away from him"... They play together because they compliment each other in the best ways possible. Puts up 77 points and 70 yet there is ZERO chance he gets 80? What a stupid comment. He will be playing with McDavid at points every single year, be it on the PP, PK, or OT. They play together because of how good they are together.

And how Drai is only a 2nd line C without him, yes we all know that.