Value of: Leon Draisaitl

[t0nedeff]

Kane, JVR, and Stone are all UFA's. Btw, Kuznetsov actually centers his line and puts up a ppg and also had more UFA years being bought, so that isn't a 1 on 1 comparison either. Wonder what his production will be when he's not on Mcdavid's wing and has to center Lucic and Pulijarvi full time.

Doesn't matter, I don't blame Draisatl for signing the contract, but Chia could've done a lot better.

oh you mean a line that has Ovechkin on it? You can't make it a negative for one player while completely ignoring it for another. He literally just had his first ppg season so acting like he got his contract off doing that is a blatant lie. Not only that but Drai had a great regular season and an even better playoffs thinking Kuznetzov was more established at that point is a lie, too.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Kane, JVR, and Stone are all UFA's. Btw, Kuznetsov actually centers his line and puts up a ppg and also had more UFA years being bought, so that isn't a 1 on 1 comparison either. Wonder what his production will be when he's not on Mcdavid's wing and has to center Lucic and Pulijarvi full time.

Doesn't matter, I don't blame Draisatl for signing the contract, but Chia could've done a lot better.

Okay so we paid for a year of RFA, doesn't change the fact they are wingers making $7m which goes to show how the market is already inflating. The fact they are UFAs doesn't offset the significant gap in value Drai provides over all three of them when you also consider age. Ah yes, centering his own line with the best goal scorer of all-time. What did Kuz do when he was playing on the 2nd line and Backstrom was centering Ovi last year? Oh yeah, 59 points. Kinda similar to all your experts predictions of what Drai would put up centering his own line yet he's 3.5 years younger. Conveniently didn't even bring up Pasta or RyJo I see because they didn't fit your agenda. Well done.

PS. I already said it was slight overpay but you don't know anything about economics if you think it should have been anywhere near $6.5m.

 

[super6646]

oh you mean a line that has Ovechkin on it? You can't make it a negative for one player while completely ignoring it for another. He literally just had his first ppg season so acting like he got his contract off doing that is a blatant lie. Not only that but Drai had a great regular season and an even better playoffs thinking Kuznetzov was more established at that point is a lie, too.

Kuznetzov also has 6 UFA years on his contract, Draisatl has 3, so yeah, it makes a big difference. Also already stated how one was playing center while the other wasn't, but whatever.

Okay so we paid for a year of RFA, doesn't change the fact they are wingers making $7m which goes to show how the market is already inflating. The fact they are UFAs doesn't offset the significant gap in value Drai provides over all three of them when you also consider age. Ah yes, centering his own line with the best goal scorer of all-time. What did Kuz do when he was playing on the 2nd line and Backstrom was centering Ovi last year? Oh yeah, 59 points. Kinda similar to all your experts predictions of what Drai would put up centering his own line yet he's 3.5 years younger. Conveniently didn't even bring up Pasta or RyJo I see because they didn't fit your agenda. Well done.

PS. I already said it was slight overpay but you don't know anything about economics if you think it should have been anywhere near $6.5m.

I stated what was reasonable. Sure, "fair" value is probably 7-7.5 million, but unless he's producing almost a PPG as the 2nd line center, he isn't worth 8.5 million.

 

[t0nedeff]

Kuznetzov also has 6 UFA years on his contract, Draisatl has 3, so yeah, it makes a big difference. Also already stated how one was playing center while the other wasn't, but whatever.



I stated what was reasonable. Sure, "fair" value is probably 7-7.5 million, but unless he's producing almost a PPG as the 2nd line center, he isn't worth 8.5 million.

So let me get this straight Drai should be punished for playing in the NHL earlier and having more success at a younger age? If Kuznetzov came over earlier and put up the same point totals he did to get his current contract he'd have the same amount of UFA years on his contract. Oilers bridge Drai and he continues to progress like he has and ya yo buy more UFA years while probably paying him 10+ because of inflation. I'm sure it is so hard to put up points when you have the best goal scorer of the last 12 years get out of here with your selective criticisms. Everyone saw what Kuznetzov was when he had to be a center who was the best player on his line he put up less than 60 points. Talking about Drai needing to prove himself by putting the same numbers up centering Lucic/JP when Kuznetzov had his number inflated by having a guy who puts up 50 goals a year on his line.

 

[super6646]

So let me get this straight Drai should be punished for playing in the NHL earlier and having more success at a younger age? If Kuznetzov came over earlier and put up the same point totals he did to get his current contract he'd have the same amount of UFA years on his contract. Oilers bridge Drai and he continues to progress like he has and ya yo buy more UFA years while probably paying him 10+ because of inflation. I'm sure it is so hard to put up points when you have the best goal scorer of the last 12 years get out of here with your selective criticisms. Everyone saw what Kuznetzov was when he had to be a center who was the best player on his line he put up less than 60 points. Talking about Drai needing to prove himself by putting the same numbers up centering Lucic/JP when Kuznetzov had his number inflated by having a guy who puts up 50 goals a year on his line.

No, its that Chia is a crappy GM. If Drai is offered this contract, he absolutely deserves it for himself. If Chia couldn't negotiate the price down even a little bit - especially with how little leverage Drai had, he is truely terrible at his job, and its no wonder the Oilers are gonna struggle signing their players. Good luck trying to sign Pulijarvi and Rattie next year if they break out...

 

[Del Preston]

Even funnier is by that evidence not including PP with McDavid Drai is... oh wait a 56 point player. We will throw that out the window though, so without McDavid he is a 64 point player that you guys are paying 8.5M a year for. And you are ok with that.

Sean Monahan scored two points all season when Gaudreau wasn't on the ice.

Use Malkin's scoring rate away from Crosby and he would have finished with only 65 points last season, not the 98 he ended up getting. Or if Kucherov didn't play a second with Stamkos he would have finished with 54 points, not 100 like he actually got. Do you realize how ridiculous the "without McDavid" argument is now?

 

[t0nedeff]

No, its that Chia is a crappy GM. If Drai is offered this contract, he absolutely deserves it for himself. If Chia couldn't negotiate the price down even a little bit - especially with how little leverage Drai had, he is truely terrible at his job, and its no wonder the Oilers are gonna struggle signing their players. Good luck trying to sign Pulijarvi and Rattie next year if they break out...

Oh yeah cause signing Kuznetzov to a 7.5 AAV contract after he put up 59 points is brilliant gming.

 

[super6646]

Oh yeah cause signing Kuznetzov to a 7.5 AAV contract after he put up 59 points is brilliant gming.

Doesn't really matter since he was a ppg. Lets see if he sustains it, but its definitely better than the Draisatl contract. If Drai can put up 70 points while playing full time on the 2nd line with Lucic and whoever else, I'll eat crow.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Hyman, Brown, two 1sts?

 

[Connor McConnor]

Doesn't really matter since he was a ppg. Lets see if he sustains it, but its definitely better than the Draisatl contract. If Drai can put up 70 points while playing full time on the 2nd line with Lucic and whoever else, I'll eat crow.

Again, do you know what 3.5 years can do for you? "He was a PPG" is just a silly blanket statement to cover up for your continuous amount of Ls here.

Nevertheless, for me all of this debate was less about Drai making $8.5m, which I already said was a slight overpayment and he should have been closer to $7.5-8m but more about you saying it should have been $6.5m/7 years which is just plain idiotic. You clearly have no knowledge of comparables around the league, a rising salary cap, the impact a monster playoff run can have on a contract with any player on any team (see Tom Wilson) etc. I'll move on now.

 

[super6646]

Again, do you know what 3.5 years can do for you? "He was a PPG" is just a silly blanket statement to cover up for your continuous amount of Ls here.

Nevertheless, for me all of this debate was less about Drai making $8.5m, which I already said was a slight overpayment and he should have been closer to $7.5-8m but more about you saying it should have been $6.5m/7 years which is just plain idiotic. You clearly have no knowledge of comparables around the league, a rising salary cap, the impact a monster playoff run can have on a contract with any player on any team (see Tom Wilson) etc. I'll move on now.

What a great example. You know what, it doesn't matter. When the oilers don't have cap flexibility to do squat, those extra couple million dollars will be something they wish they had. 6.5 million is pretty decent for a 70 point center, especially with what Mackinnon, Horvat, and even Monahan get. I have no clue how the oilers sign Puli and Rattie unless the cap goes up by 6 million dollars.

 

[Mr Positive]

I don't see the point in comparing Draisaitl to Kuznetzov. It is better to compare like with like. When people bring up the extra UFA years on the Kuz deal, I have to say that yes, UFA years should cost more, but that invites one to look at what happened in all those previous years. Kuznetzov had a slower ascent than Draisaitl, was less proven at the time of signing despite being older, and of course was drafted much lower. UFA years are worth a lot because of leverage, sure, but those big UFA numbers only go to players who were consistent in those RFA years. That's why Johansen only costed 8 million AAV despite having all those UFA years.

I don't think that Kuznetzov was used as the main comparable for the Draisaitl contract. I strongly believe that during that offseason, the agents of Drai and McDavid used a cap percentage argument. McDavid's comparable was Crosby, and sure enough the cap percentage was a bit less than Crosby's 1st contract after his ELC (although McDavid gave us more term). The comparable for Drai was Kopitar, and I can tell this because the cap percentage of that 1st contract was very similar to Drai's

Btw, I'd like to point out that Kuznetzov's contract is better than Drai's as of today. A lot of people looked at that Kuznetzov contract sideways at the time (wasn't there also a comment from the GM at the time about how he overpaid because he had to?), but the guy was arguably the best player on a cup winning team. If he were re-signed today, it would be for 9 million, if not more.

 

[Del Preston]

What a great example. You know what, it doesn't matter. When the oilers don't have cap flexibility to do squat, those extra couple million dollars will be something they wish they had. As I said, I have no clue how they sign Puli and Rattie unless the cap goes up by 6 million dollars.

Neither of those guys are going to get huge contracts, regardless of how they do next season.

 

[super6646]

Neither of those guys are going to get huge contracts, regardless of how they do next season.

Well lets just say Rattie gets 50 points and Pulijarvi gets 40. Puli would probably want a 2-3 million bridge, and Rattie could probably command over 4 million dollars (unless you think Chia could negotiate those numbers down). Either that or they perform poorly and Edmonton likely doesn't get anywhere this year. Plus there are other guys Edmonton has to resign as well...

 

[TFHockey]

Well lets just say Rattie gets 50 points and Pulijarvi gets 40. Puli would probably want a 2-3 million bridge, and Rattie could probably command over 4 million dollars (unless you think Chia could negotiate those numbers down). Either that or they perform poorly and Edmonton likely doesn't get anywhere this year. Plus there are other guys Edmonton has to resign as well...

I don't think anyone could argue with you that Edmonton's cap situation is tight.

If Rattie wants over 4 million because he scored 50 points the Oilers have to let him walk. They can get another AHLer with wheels to take his place. They'd be crazy to sign that contract.

If Puljujarvi gets 40 he'd get a 2 million to 2.5 million bridge. That's fair. Chia would have to make room elsewhere.

At the same time, Talbot is up for renewal and our back up is off of his $2.5 million dollar gift of a contract.

 

[Deegee]

For what it's worth as a Flames fan I think Drai is a great player. I just don't think he's near worth the 8.5 million he's getting.

This is a clear failure of GMing which many Oiler fans know. To suggest Drai is the second coming is obnoxious. He's an outstanding player, but it's difficult to classify him as an elite C until he shows that he can consistently carry his own line. Not a stretch of games after a team has been eliminated. Start at game 1 and carry a line into game 82. He's being paid to do so.

 

[Bank Shot]

For what it's worth as a Flames fan I think Drai is a great player. I just don't think he's near worth the 8.5 million he's getting.

This is a clear failure of GMing which many Oiler fans know. To suggest Drai is the second coming is obnoxious. He's an outstanding player, but it's difficult to classify him as an elite C until he shows that he can consistently carry his own line. Not a stretch of games after a team has been eliminated. Start at game 1 and carry a line into game 82. He's being paid to do so.

Meh. As long as he keeps producing and the Oilers win that's all that matters.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg played together all the time and they went to the finals back to back.

He doesn't have to play 2nd line center for 82 games. That's ridiculous and arbitrary.

 

[HugginThePost]

Monahans draft -1 season (16 yr) performance suggested he was
Mackinnon level.
#1, #2, #3 center, LW, RW is defined by what chomp you can successfully perform against.

I was the guy who pointed out Gaudreau was lit up like a Christmas tree on the road on this board. Established with another blogger on Lowetide. Sportsnet 960 started talking about 9 months later.
Monahan proved he could successfully play against 1st comp without Johnny.
Monohan dragged up Johnny,s goal diff performance against tougher comp.His +/- (unit differential) got a lot better on the road.
Monohan has 116g 247p averaged 29g 62p last 4 seasons.
Only 7 centers had 116/247 in 4 years.
Yeah was hoping he dropped to us cause of his injury draft year.

Every time I read your posts I imagine them being read in the HAL 9000 voice.

It adds to the experience......I'd suggest everyone start doing it!

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Do you have anything but troll comments?

How is stating facts trolling?

 

[Fourier]

Drai is just better than Monohan it is what it is at this point. Monohan is basically what RNH was when his numbers were being propped up by Hall. Take away Gaudeau and your team doesn't actually have a number 1 or number 2 center just a bunch of number 3's.

Except unlike Monahan without Gaudreau Nuge's scoring rates went up away from Hall over what they were with Hall. It is not always true that playing with a dominant player improves individual scoring rates. A players role can change quite dramatically. If that player goes from the guy with the puck to a support role then the numbers can actually go down.

 

[ManofSteel55]

How is stating facts trolling?

 

[ManofSteel55]

Well lets just say Rattie gets 50 points and Pulijarvi gets 40. Puli would probably want a 2-3 million bridge, and Rattie could probably command over 4 million dollars (unless you think Chia could negotiate those numbers down). Either that or they perform poorly and Edmonton likely doesn't get anywhere this year. Plus there are other guys Edmonton has to resign as well...

The cap will go up so a 2-3 million bridge is nothing. If Rattie wants 4 million he will walk and some other team will pay him too much and we'll find a cheap replacement.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Doesn't really matter since he was a ppg. Lets see if he sustains it, but its definitely better than the Draisatl contract. If Drai can put up 70 points while playing full time on the 2nd line with Lucic and whoever else, I'll eat crow.

the Oilers are getting Draisaitl in his prime offensive years...it's not better

 

[Someone]

When Drai played on McDavids wing he finished 8th in the league in points. That's elite production, no? Sure, it was a slow scoring year and amounted to "only" 77 points, but he went on to have a big playoff performance, even when separated from Connor.

You can argue until your fingers bleed, but at the end of the day we signed a guy who is one of the best winger options in the league for McDavid and can center his own line playing with guys like Lucic and Khaira and still produce reasonably. If we had never drafted McDavid, Drai would likely be centering some combination of Hall, Eberle and Nuge, rather than a couple of 3rd liners. I would guess his production would be just fine.

 

[yababy]

Well that would be easy because Drai is not good at being a C, he is a winger.

Draisaitl in the top 20 Centres in the league for the 2nd straight year.

#NHLTopPlayers: Top 20 Centers