What should he get credit for? He has not produced like a 1st liner away from McDavid.
Value of: Leon Draisaitl
- Thread starter Hockeyholic
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What should he get credit for? He has not produced like a 1st liner away from McDavid.
XXIV97
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SupremeTeam16
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Lol why don't you have a look at the Oilers PP last year and Leon's PP numbers and you'll realize how terrible an argument that is, because Draisaitl was better off last year not on the PP. He played about half his 5v5 time away from 97 and his PTS/60 was actually better away from him. That's not even taking into consideration the slugs he had to drag around all year as well because he got a healthy dose of Lucic once they realized they couldn't keep him on McDavids wing.
Without McDavid Draisaitl posts barely 50% at SF%, 42% at GF%, barely 50% at CF%, net negative CF% of 49% and hdcf of 47%.
In 16/17 those numbers were even worse when he was well below the median in every category away from McDavid, with McDavid he is positive in every single category, so do tell how is that possible if McDavid doesn't significantly affect how Leon looks and performs on the ice?
In 16/17 those numbers were even worse when he was well below the median in every category away from McDavid, with McDavid he is positive in every single category, so do tell how is that possible if McDavid doesn't significantly affect how Leon looks and performs on the ice?
I think you'd have to look at Draisaitl's wingers when evaluating numbers like that. Also, I think you'll find McDavid's numbers improve when Draisaitl is on his line. They tend to make each other better.
I tend to look at the top 30 centers in the league. If LD doesn't look out of place on that list, it reinforces my view that he is in 1C territory.
Supporting articles from this time last year, August 2017. Leon ranked 15th:
#NHLTopPlayers: Top 20 Centers
And this year, 2018 he ranked 20th:
#NHLTopPlayers: Top 20 Centers
The point is that he has been portrayed as an elite player here on the boards despite not really producing anywhere close as one away from McDavid. If he was such driver of offense and two way standout he wouldn't get buried away from Connor. To me he is both overrated and overpaid based on past performances, but he has potential to be a legit high end center one day, and he has ways to get there.
Tobias Kahun
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Tobias Kahun
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Oilers should just run a Hopkins mcdavid drai line and have mcdavid take zero faceoffs and have the rest of the team be awful
Please don't use p/60 in any argument to prove a player's worth. It's about as useful as +/-.
Tobias Kahun
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Ah, so since it doesn't support your argument its a useless stat
No it's a useless stat as it doesn't take any context into account and has been widely debunked as useless.
Tobias Kahun
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So all the stats you posted that dont take into account quality of linemate, its no shock going from mcdavid/maroon to Lucic/Puljujarvi or Lucic/Slepyshev its going to have an impact on his stats.
What a shocking revelation that is.
Would you relent a little on your statement that LD is overrated based on the opinions of hockey experts? Or would you say the advanced stats you mentioned have you convinced that he is?
Tobias Kahun
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Even if he is on mcdavids wing he produces better than any other winger he's had and can take all the faceoffs
Barkov all the way down at 13, as well. A lol-able list, for sure.
Well, I think there is a slight eastern bias in that article, which should make Draisaitl's inclusion on the list even more telling.
Barkov is awesome.
Still, whatever order you have the centers any time NHL.com says a player is in the top 20 in the league at their position there is some validity to it.
bucks_oil
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I find this ironic when the stats you posted above included GF% which is essentially the same stat (I'm assuming here you mean at even strength)... So you like the ratio of goals for vs goals against when expressed as a % rather than an absolute number?
HockeyGuy1964
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Leon Draisaitl is not a $8.5M/year hockey player right now but in a few years that might look like a bargain contract kinda like Taylor Hall's is today. We can only hope.
ChaoticOrange
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‘Don’t use this stat that’s devastating to my argument, use this other stat that I like better that supports my viewpoint’.
The guy using f***ing Corsi thinks that p/60 is a poor stat. Gotcha.
Fourier
Registered User
Let's see how things work out for another guy who some claim is elite:
Tavares: CF% 48.5% SF% 46.6% GF% 48.7%
I guess he could not have been driving offense with those numbers so the 84 points he put up must have been a mirage.
Or is it possible that these stats may not actually show what you claim. It might even be possible that they don't actually reflect the individual but rather the collective. Or maybe its all Kris Russell's fault.
Leon with Larsson but not McDavid
319 min CF 51% GF 55.6%
Leon with Russell but not McDavid
197 min CF% 46.2% GF% 36.4%
So I guess Leon is a driver when Larsson is on the ice but not if Russell is.
In this thread and others stats have been presented multiple times that show that away from McDavid Leon puts up points at a rate that is consistent with other recognized 1C's. Is he elite. Not yet but he's also very young. But rather than acknowledging this we see that you cloud the issue with a bunch of numbers that have little to do with the question at hand.
