Rumor: Leafs trying to acquire pick #5

[Wafflewhipper]

I would do this deal if it's for Kessel. Not for JVR or Phaneuf.

If we can do this deal... we should also try to trade JVR for the 6th OA straight up. Then we'd have the 4th, 5th, and 6th picks. Hanifin, Marner, and Barzal/Zacha/Provorov would really kick start our re-build. Gives us 3 solid players, plus Rielly & Nylander for our rebuild.

I think the more deals they could make out of this draft the better. The mix is wrong as a team but individually they have good value for other teams. Keeping the age range close to our young guns u mentioned is a good plan to take a try by acquiring lots of picks this year and the following two drafts.

 

[Jackothy]

I don't know why so many people think Blundell is full of it - it may or may not be true but it's very likely that the man has a bunch of inside sources with the Leafs. For 13 years with The Edge he interviewed leaf players and personnel. For a while they had a daily segment where they went to the ACC and interviewed people. The guy was best friends with Wade Belak and is currently great friends with several NHL players.

I know knowing players doesn't exactly translate to sources, but the fact is Blundell and company - regardless of what you think of them - have been around the leafs and inside their facilities for some time now. It's really not so hard to believe that he has a source inside the organization.

Blundell is also great friends with Chelios - who happened to play with Brandon Shanahan. Maybe this rumour is coming right from the top!

 

[Woodman19]

I just dont see the value in moving proven good NHL talent for a single 50/50 shot ticket of finding even an NHL player. Not to say I wouldn't trade them for picks, but I don't think you can put all your eggs in 1 basket and hope they reach their full potential to make the value work out.

 

[MajorLeaf]

This speculation on trading the 5th overall and Semin could have possibility seeing what has happened recently in Carolina.

Hurricanes' CFO out after nearly 35 years

Karamanos could be looking to sell some stake in the Hurricanes down the road and having Semin on the roster with his salary/cap hit does not bode well for any partner to help take on the team.

Having Dennis Moore (Plymouth Whalers) and Don Waddell (Atlanta Thrashers) on the management team where both executives have experience in selling hockey teams shows the possibility the Hurricanes could be making some sort of change in philosophy financially.

Here is a post from user "tarheelhockey" about the possibly cloudy future of Carolina in the CFO thread that is linked above.

Local media take on cloudy future in Carolina

Whether Carolina does the deal for business purposes remains yet to be seen.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Dean Blundell, citing the same source who gave him the Mike Babcock information, says the Toronto Maple Leafs may go after the Carolina Hurricanes’ #5 pick in the upcoming draft – and the price will be significant.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_dema...s-Canes-draft-trade-db-20150602-Interview.mp3

 

[Ovate]

Or

Alex Semin
Cam Ward
Trevor Carrick
2nd round pick 2015 (35th overall)
1st round pick 2016 (L.A.)

Joffrey Lupul
James Reimer
Eric Knodel

If you prefer a bigger deal.

I don't know why Carrick and Knodel are there, they're so marginal. Both are C-prospects. I guess the original poster just wanted another Carrick on the Leafs, and didn't care at all about Knodel.

I think there's something to be done about Reimer for Ward + Pick or Lupul for Semin + Pick. I don't think they get us LA's 2016 1st and CAR's 2nd though.

Reimer for Ward is a $4Mil difference in cap hit and a $4.8Mil difference in actual dollars.

Lupul for Semin is a $1.75Mil difference in annual cap hit and actual dollars, total $5.25Mil over the entire contract.

Carolina doesn't really care about the cap space, so it comes down to the real dollars. What pick does $10Mil buy?

 

[PuckMagi]

Whether Carolina does the deal for business purposes remains yet to be seen.

The thing with Kessel is that he's a big name player and he's American. No one in Carolina knows or cares about guys like Marner, Hanifin, Strome, etc. If the casual fan hears that they've got this big superstar player in Phil Kessel... that will help a lot. The fact that he did so well in the Olympics for the Americans will really help his value.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don't know why Carrick and Knodel are there, they're so marginal. Both are C-prospects. I guess the original poster just wanted another Carrick on the Leafs, and didn't care at all about Knodel.

I think there's something to be done about Reimer for Ward + Pick or Lupul for Semin + Pick. I don't think they get us LA's 2016 1st and CAR's 2nd though.

Reimer for Ward is a $4Mil difference in cap hit and a $4.8Mil difference in actual dollars.

Lupul for Semin is a $1.75Mil difference in annual cap hit and actual dollars, total $5.25Mil over the entire contract.

Carolina doesn't really care about the cap space, so it comes down to the real dollars. What pick does $10Mil buy?

A 1st, a 2nd, an older goalie with a worse career .SVV% and a worse top 6 forward whom does not have the best rep in the locker room? That seems fair.

And Carrick for Knodel can be taken out. I don't really care.

 

[PuckMagi]

Would you do Kessel for 5th. overall?



Exclude Semin and Skinner.

Take
Skinner(a positive) + Semin (a negative)
and
Leafs 24th. out of the equation

What would you want from the 'Canes to take Semin's contract?

I would do Kessel for the 5th in a heartbeat.

I just don't think that Kessel is very good... but someone's gonna want him for the same reason that people wanted Bolland and the same reason that someone's going to overpay for Franson (and the same reason there was a bidding war for Clarkson).

I don't want to say that Kessel has negative value... but he's coming close. Whereas JVR has tremendous positive value.

With Kessel, we're almost certainly going to have to take back a bad contract in return.

So if it's Semin + 5th for Kessel... I think that's a trade we should still make. Hopefully we can get more... but if that was the best and only offer for Kessel, I still make that trade.

JVR I think we can flip straight up for a 5th or 6th OA without having to take back a bad contract.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Kessel is and will be better than anyone not named McDavid, or Eichel... saying he cant get a 14+ pick is insulting.

Perhaps in 4-5 years one or 2 players may reach PPG, if any ever do

Not sure how one can know this. Kessel is a one dimensional scorer with flaws. I sure hope there are better players than Kessel than just 2 generational talents this draft.

 

[burpsalot]

How the hell does this thread have 11 pages of post. This rumor seems gibberish to me.

Some of them only speak gibberish.

 

[Nithoniniel]

This speculation on trading the 5th overall and Semin could have possibility seeing what has happened recently in Carolina.

Hurricanes' CFO out after nearly 35 years

Karamanos could be looking to sell some stake in the Hurricanes down the road and having Semin on the roster with his salary/cap hit does not bode well for any partner to help take on the team.

Having Dennis Moore (Plymouth Whalers) and Don Waddell (Atlanta Thrashers) on the management team where both executives have experience in selling hockey teams shows the possibility the Hurricanes could be making some sort of change in philosophy financially.

Here is a post from user "tarheelhockey" about the possibly cloudy future of Carolina in the CFO thread that is linked above.

Local media take on cloudy future in Carolina

Whether Carolina does the deal for business purposes remains yet to be seen.

Tarheelhockey is a good and insightful poster. I'd trust what he'd have to say on the subject.

Regarding Blundell, he doesn't seem generally trustworthy. But with every personality like this, it's about how good different sources are and how careful the person is in making sure the information is good before giving it out. Blundell seems like the type that has some questionable sources and is not averse to giving out questionable info from these, but that doesn't mean that one of his sources isn't very reliable and insightful. I found it interesting that he referenced the source and how good the intel has been. Any time someone says that their source is that reliable, I'll at least half listen.

Of course, that doesn't mean a trade will happen. He's only talking about interest from the Leafs.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Kessel negative value... Big lol to that notion

 

[dballislife2]

hate to see kessel go, behind the heartless and gritless player theres still some1 with a ton of hockey skills...but 2 of hanifin, strome and marner would be sweet

 

[Longshot]

Not a terrible deal. Four years left at $6 million per ($5.75 million cap hit). Only way a deal gets done for the #5 pick is if they are clearing salary in Semin and getting back good, young prospects like Nylander/Reilly.

It makes sense if Skinner is included in the deal (based on the idea that Carolina is making a financial transaction first and a hockey move second). Carolina would subtract the $7 million Semin hit and the $5.75 million Skinner hit in exchange for Kessel's $8 million hit. Granted, those are the cap hits, not the actual amounts owing the players.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Kessel

for

5th overall and Hayden Fleury.



What has to happen to make that go?

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Kessel

for

5th overall and Hayden Fleury.



What has to happen to make that go?

Clearly a big salary, or two, heading Toronto's way

It makes sense if Skinner is included in the deal (based on the idea that Carolina is making a financial transaction first and a hockey move second). Carolina would subtract the $7 million Semin hit and the $5.75 million Skinner hit in exchange for Kessel's $8 million hit. Granted, those are the cap hits, not the actual amounts owing the players.

Semin getting paid $7m and Skinner $6m for the duration of their contracts; Kessel $10m, $9m, $9m, then $7m, $7m, and $6m, $6m respectively.

 

[tmart15]

I would do Kessel for the 5th in a heartbeat.

I just don't think that Kessel is very good... but someone's gonna want him for the same reason that people wanted Bolland and the same reason that someone's going to overpay for Franson (and the same reason there was a bidding war for Clarkson).

I don't want to say that Kessel has negative value... but he's coming close. Whereas JVR has tremendous positive value.

With Kessel, we're almost certainly going to have to take back a bad contract in return.

So if it's Semin + 5th for Kessel... I think that's a trade we should still make. Hopefully we can get more... but if that was the best and only offer for Kessel, I still make that trade.

JVR I think we can flip straight up for a 5th or 6th OA without having to take back a bad contract.

People act like Kessel is David Clarkson lol How does he have negative value? Not like he led the olympics in scoring not even 2 years ago, five 30 goal seasons in 9 seasons, 520 career points and only 27 years old..

I guess if Kessel has negative value so does : signed until the 19/20 season, age 27

Kris Letang (age 28) at 7.25 till 19/20 season:

Parise (age 30)at 9 till 19/20 season :

Suter(age 30) at 9 till the 19/20 season:

Dustin Brown (Age 30) 7.25 for the next 5 years:

Jeff carter (Age 30) at 7 till the 19/20 season:

Marc Stall (age 30) at 7 until the 19/20 season:

These guys seem to all have negative value too as they are signed to a similar contract and a similar price tag.... we should make some calls lol

 

[MJ65]

From all I have read from Ron Francis and trading the pick, it seems unlikely to me. He has already traded players like Sekera and Tlusty for picks at the deadline. This would suggest to me, he wants to get younger players to add to Lindholm and Fleury. I am skeptical he will be moving #5 unless he gets a pick around 10 or a prospect player of high value. All indications are Carolina fans are happy he is the GM now rather than Rutherford is.

I won't be surprised if they do trade there pick and you know why, Carolina current payroll for next year $54 M, with only with only 14 player signed, the club has an aging Cam Ward making over $6 Million per season, four years left with Skinner at $5.725 Million and three years and $21 Million remaining on Semin and then close to $14.2 million tied to Staal brothers (they still need to fill 9 more spots)

Keep in mind this club do not have unlimited resources to finance all these contracts for a long time and need to dump salaries and why would Leafs do not want to take a dump without any incentive

Regardless Carolina have to pay the price, whether it's a pick or prospects. I know, what you are going to say, but Kessel is still a 1st line forward and would help them make the playoff, Kessel contract is not that bad when you look at both Semin and ward's contract and Eric Stall is making over $8 M (not much of a difference talent wise at this stage, I know he is a center)

 

[Prominence]

I would settle for Kessel to New Jersey for their 6th overall and 2nd round pick.

 

[senor martinez]

If Kessel is moved to carolina I really hope E.Staal is involved in that deal somehow. Staal would look GREAT in maple leafs jersey and he is a real player. Would be a good teacher with good character for some of our players too. Maybe a Cup run in 3 years with Eric Staal just like Sundin did his back in the day. Not yet... not yet like they say it in Gladiator with Crowe and Hounsou.... not yet, but some day

 

[DougGilmour93]

Just simplify...

JVR + 24th overall

For

5th overall + 66th overall



Then we deal...


Phaneuf for ROR

Bozak for Sharp

Kessel for Trocheck + Matheson + 11th overall

Kadri for Petan + 47th overall


AT THE DRAFT....

McDavid goes 1
Eichel goes 2
Hanifin goes 3

4.Marner
5.Provorov
11.Barzal/Rantanen/Conner
47.Vladar
65.Stephens
66.Pilon

 

[heatersthebest]

Value of a 1st Round Pick

Does this bring up the question again of the monetary value of a 1st/Top 10 pick? Depending on the piece you would be "paying" 21 million for the 5th pick. Is that unreasonable of a price? If any team can do it, the leafs would have to be it.

Talk about flexing your financial clout.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

It seems like it's Hanifin and Strome at third/ fourth while Marner rounds up the top 5. For that reason, Carolina may consider sending out Marner in exchange for JVR/ Kessel who are already entering their prime.

Their middle is going to be J. Staal/ Lindholm / Rask. The last two will be getting paid quite soon so they're probably at a different stage of a rebuild than us.

 

[MJ65]

Just simplify...

JVR + 24th overall

For

5th overall + 66th overall



Then we deal...


Phaneuf for ROR

Bozak for Sharp

Kessel for Trocheck + Matheson + 11th overall

Kadri for Petan + 47th overall


AT THE DRAFT....

McDavid goes 1
Eichel goes 2
Hanifin goes 3

4.Marner
5.Provorov
11.Barzal/Rantanen/Conner
47.Vladar
65.Stephens
66.Pilon

Bozak for sharp? why Chicago would do that, when they can get much better value