Recalled/Assigned: Leafs Loan Rasmus Sandin to Marlies | Re-Call Kevin Gravel

[stickty111]

Good call. His game was getting worse, so it's better he go to the Marlies.

 

[OVO16]

Marincin has one of the longest reaches and is best suited to use his stick to defend. Marincin throws his body around when needed.

that’s a completely lie. Marincin is one of the softest players in the league for a dude who’s that size

 

[biotk]

What's wrong with giving him a taste of the NHL? A sort of reward for a very impressive training camp.

He didn't give him a taste of the NHL. He gave him a taste of extremely sheltered minutes against low quality opponents. No different than the preseason is, except much fewer minutes.

This was an amateur display by an organization that has been trying to present itself as an organization that develops players properly and an organization that had said earlier this year that they had no intention of bringing in their prospects until they were ready to stick (in the words of Babcock: keep them in the minors until they are ready to be a real hockey player and then when you put him he is a real hockey player), and would instead use depth to fill holes. Weren't going to be shuttling their top prospects up and down, but instead wait until they are ready to stick, they said. It was the reason Dubas said he acquired a bunch of depth.

So what happened? Was Sandin not ready for the NHL? Or was Babcock not ready to play a 19 year old D in the NHL? If it is the former why does the organization not understand where their top prospects are at? If it is the latter why does the organization trust Babcock with top young D prospects?

As I said elsewhere:

"Babcock being the coach of the team and the person who best understands who is going to play under what circumstances should have known before the season started that there was no room for Sandin on the PP or PK, and that he would be getting a max of 14 minutes a night (on a good night). That situation should have also been known by every fan who understands Babcock by the end of the first period of the season opener. That kind of deployment was and is terrible for development - something Babcock appears to also know.

So why did Sandin start the season on the Leafs? Why did the GM not send him down at the start, or after game 1 (or after realizing the mistake in not sending him down after game 1, after game 2 etc). Was this simply incompetence from the GM? And if the GM was being incompetent in not sending him down and Babcock knew this was bad for his development why did Babcock not force the GMs hand by scratching Sandin?

Or was this a situation - as we have seen from Babcock over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again when it comes to young players - that Babcock repeatedly told the GM that he was going to give Sandin the kind of deployment that would be ok for his continued development, but once the puck was dropped each game Babcock reverted to his well known style of absolutely not trusting young players."

 

[jrgtml67]

Sandin >>>>>>>>>>> Marincin, Holl

Wrong move

Waivers...that's why. Holl and Marty would have to clear..Sandin is exempt

 

[biotk]

Waivers...that's why.

Funny Babcock was quoted as saying a completely different set of reasons.

 

[stickty111]

 

[MattySnipes]

Everyone saw this coming. It's a shame because I really thought he was ready. He definitely looked ready. So what changed? Babcock got his hands on him.

Wish Dubas would just let Babs go for cryin out loud. Can't develop players, can't get creativity out of our stars, and is too rigid with everything said Leafs. Dubas is smart for doing what he did. Sandin is a big part of this team's future and he wants that realized.

With Babcock here that just won't happen, until he's gone. Enjoy the AHL Rasmus, see you later buddy.

 

[biotk]

Everyone saw this coming. It's a shame because I really thought he was ready. He definitely looked ready. So what changed? Babcock got his hands on him.

Seems most likely to be correct.

 

[stickty111]

Good but they should be on the 1st PP unit. I don't want Sandin replacing Lilly there, or we might not know what kind of offensive upside Lilly has.

 

[mikeo1]

He didn't give him a taste of the NHL. He gave him a taste of extremely sheltered minutes against low quality opponents. No different than the preseason is, except much fewer minutes.

This was an amateur display by an organization that has been trying to present itself as an organization that develops players properly and an organization that had said earlier this year that they had no intention of bringing in their prospects until they were ready to stick (in the words of Babcock: keep them in the minors until they are ready to be a real hockey player and then when you put him he is a real hockey player), and would instead use depth to fill holes. Weren't going to be shuttling their top prospects up and down, but instead wait until they are ready to stick, they said. It was the reason Dubas said he acquired a bunch of depth.

So what happened? Was Sandin not ready for the NHL? Or was Babcock not ready to play a 19 year old D in the NHL? If it is the former why does the organization not understand where their top prospects are at? If it is the latter why does the organization trust Babcock with top young D prospects?

As I said elsewhere:

"Babcock being the coach of the team and the person who best understands who is going to play under what circumstances should have known before the season started that there was no room for Sandin on the PP or PK, and that he would be getting a max of 14 minutes a night (on a good night). That situation should have also been known by every fan who understands Babcock by the end of the first period of the season opener. That kind of deployment was and is terrible for development - something Babcock appears to also know.

So why did Sandin start the season on the Leafs? Why did the GM not send him down at the start, or after game 1 (or after realizing the mistake in not sending him down after game 1, after game 2 etc). Was this simply incompetence from the GM? And if the GM was being incompetent in not sending him down and Babcock knew this was bad for his development why did Babcock not force the GMs hand by scratching Sandin?

Or was this a situation - as we have seen from Babcock over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again when it comes to young players - that Babcock repeatedly told the GM that he was going to give Sandin the kind of deployment that would be ok for his continued development, but once the puck was dropped each game Babcock reverted to his well known style of absolutely not trusting young players."

Seriously, are you new to hockey?

 

[Bluebear]

He got nailed squarely on Saturday night.

The only reason he was up was he was avoiding those hits, if he can't avoid them right now, he needs some more man strength.

Lots of men to throw big hits in the AHL too, and sometimes you gotta eat the hit to make the play there as well. If this was the concern he would be in junior.

 

[biotk]

Seriously, are you new to hockey?

I know that people need to defend their team no matter what. Many players have had their development set back in this way. Doesn't always happen, but anyone who watches the AHL has seen it happen. It is why Dubas said they were not going to do it. Why they differentiated good developing organizations from bad ones based on this kind of thing. But idiot fans are going to idiot.

 

[Leafsman]

He didn't give him a taste of the NHL. He gave him a taste of extremely sheltered minutes against low quality opponents. No different than the preseason is, except much fewer minutes.

This was an amateur display by an organization that has been trying to present itself as an organization that develops players properly and an organization that had said earlier this year that they had no intention of bringing in their prospects until they were ready to stick (in the words of Babcock: keep them in the minors until they are ready to be a real hockey player and then when you put him he is a real hockey player), and would instead use depth to fill holes. Weren't going to be shuttling their top prospects up and down, but instead wait until they are ready to stick, they said. It was the reason Dubas said he acquired a bunch of depth.

So what happened? Was Sandin not ready for the NHL? Or was Babcock not ready to play a 19 year old D in the NHL? If it is the former why does the organization not understand where their top prospects are at? If it is the latter why does the organization trust Babcock with top young D prospects?

I love SAndin and thought he has proven to be an excellent player but the games are getting harder as teams are shaking off the early season rust. Sandin has not been keeping up. I rather him excel on the Marlies top line than struggle on the Leafs 3rd line.

This kinda sucks but this is the stage this team is at, they have to make hard decisions. This isn't a young team trying to develop, this is a competitive team trying to achieve success. Prospects have to be developed in a different way.

 

[Nylander88]

I know it's not related to Sandin going down, but I have a feeling Gravel will get a look Saturday vs the Bruins

 

[mikeo1]

I know that people need to defend their team no matter what. Many players have had their development set back in this way. Doesn't always happen, but anyone who watches the AHL has seen it happen. It is why Dubas said they were not going to do it. Why they differentiated good developing organizations from bad ones based on this kind of thing. But idiot fans are going to idiot.

Your analysis is completely off the mark. I’m sorry that your mother convinced you that you were intelligent, but she was probably just being nice.

 

[thewave]

Seems most likely to be correct.

Had nothing to do with all the mistakes he made during sheltered mins. He wasnt ready

 

[Leafsman]

Good but they should be on the 1st PP unit. I don't want Sandin replacing Lilly there, or we might not know what kind of offensive upside Lilly has.

I like this strategy, develop these two together and let them create chemistry.

This could be the 3rd pairing next year.

 

[thewave]

Is it a loan or was he sent down? Does the terminology matter? I don't think he is going up.

 

[MattySnipes]

Seriously, are you new to hockey?

I’m sorry that your mother convinced you that you were intelligent, but she was probably just being nice.

Such unnecessary remarks dude. Typical, childish comebacks.

Biotk explained his opinion in several posts and threads now and all you have to say is the above?

 

[Nylander88]

I know it's not related to Sandin going down, but I have a feeling Gravel will get a look Saturday vs the Bruins

 

[LeafingTheWay]

that’s a completely lie. Marincin is one of the softest players in the league for a dude who’s that size

2018-2019:
Marincin: 21 hits in 24 games (0.9 hits/game)
Rielly: 61 hits in 82 games (0.7 hits/game)

It's confirmation bias IMO. You expect a big guy like Marincin to be heavy on the boards and a Muzzin-type. Why? That's your own fault for expecting Muzzin-type aggressiveness out of Marincin. Each have their own strengths. Marincin is known for his defending with his stick. In fact, that's the only good trait he has and the reason why he's really good at preventing zone entries (and good at nothing else lol).

It's also weird to me when people were comparing Sandin's playing style to Lidstroms. They're not close to the same ... Lidstrom was my favourite D and he was the best I've ever seen defending with his stick. Sandin isn't going to be known for defending with his stick, and doesn't play the same playing style.

You don't have to hit all the time to be effective.

Lidstrom:
2008 - 2009: 43 hits in 78 games (0.6 hits/game)
2007-2008: 23 hits in 76 games (0.3 hits/game) (Absolutely mindblowing how little he hit, and was one of the best D ever).

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Soooo what's the plan here?

Travis Dermott

 

[biotk]

I love SAndin and thought he has proven to be an excellent player but the games are getting harder as teams are shaking off the early season rust. Sandin has not been keeping up. I rather him excel on the Marlies top line than struggle on the Leafs 3rd line.

This kinda sucks but this is the stage this team is at, they have to make hard decisions. This isn't a young team trying to develop, this is a competitive team trying to achieve success. Prospects have to be developed in a different way.

I agree that the Leafs need to develop prospects in a different way - which is the way they said they were going to develop prospects - not shuffle them up and down - wait until they are ready to play the role the Leafs' feel they can play and then have them stick as Leafs from the time they made it.

However, as Babcock said - having Sandin on the Leafs playing no PP and PK time and getting a max of 14 minutes on a really good night is no good for his development - but that was the case from the start of game 1. It wasn't like Babcock was playing his 20 minutes a night the first game of the season and then had to pull him back because he couldn't handle the games as the games got harder. There was a complete disconnect starting with the beginning of game one before Sandin even stepped on the ice 11 minutes into the game between what the Leafs' knew Sandin needed, and what I presume they thought he was going to get, and what Sandin actually got. That wasn't based on his performance because it started before he even stepped on the ice when Babs sat him for the first 11+ minutes of that game.

People on the one side should be happy that Sandin is going to be sent down and will get more ice time and people on the other side should be annoyed if they felt that Sandin should have been kept up. But people on all sides should be concerned about the disconnect that happened instead of just pretending that it doesn't exist.

 

[Not My Tempo]

 

[biotk]

I like this strategy, develop these two together and let them create chemistry.

This could be the 3rd pairing next year.

Realistically if you think they have top-4 potential you should keep them out of the league until they are ready to play a top-4 role.