Recalled/Assigned: Leafs Loan Rasmus Sandin to Marlies | Re-Call Kevin Gravel

[Havoc]

I feel like Gravel is gonna get unnecessary hate just because he was the guy who got called up for Sandin.

Gravel was extremely solid in the pre-season and adds some much needed attitude in the back end.

I just wished it wasn’t for Sandin

Gravel was pretty much what everyone hoped Harpur would be.

I don't mind giving him a shot.

 

[Leafsman]

I agree that the Leafs need to develop prospects in a different way - which is the way they said they were going to develop prospects - not shuffle them up and down - wait until they are ready to play the role the Leafs' feel they can play and then have them stick as Leafs from the time they made it.

However, as Babcock said - having Sandin on the Leafs playing no PP and PK time and getting a max of 14 minutes on a really good night is no good for his development - but that was the case from the start of game 1. It wasn't like Babcock was playing his 20 minutes a night the first game of the season and then had to pull him back because he couldn't handle the games as the games got harder. There was a complete disconnect starting with the beginning of game one before Sandin even stepped on the ice 11 minutes into the game between what the Leafs' knew Sandin needed, and what I presume they thought he was going to get, and what Sandin actually got. That wasn't based on his performance because it started before he even stepped on the ice when Babs sat him for the first 11+ minutes of that game.

People on the one side should be happy that Sandin is going to be sent down and will get more ice time and people on the other side should be annoyed if they felt that Sandin should have been kept up. But people on all sides should be concerned about the disconnect that happened instead of just pretending that it doesn't exist.

So you're upset they didn't send him down immediately?

He earned a taste of the NHL based on his preseason play, it is also huge for his development to get some games in and see what he needs to work while down in the AHL. This was the best time to get him some experience and I think we will see how invaluable it was when we see him dominate in the AHL.

I'm no fan of Babcock and will happily hold him accountable on all his bullshit but I think they've handled this perfectly.

 

[Leafsman]

Realistically if you think they have top-4 potential you should keep them out of the league until they are ready to play a top-4 role.

I believe I said they have the potential to be a great 3rd pairing next year.

From there they have to earn there way higher in the line up.

 

[biotk]

I believe I said they have the potential to be a great 3rd pairing next year.

From there they have to earn there way higher in the line up.

That is not how almost any top-4 D in the NHL developed - and especially not young ones. They are almost always kept out of the NHL until they are ready to play 20+ minutes a game, or damn close to that.

 

[biotk]

So you're upset they didn't send him down immediately?

He earned a taste of the NHL based on his preseason play, it is also huge for his development to get some games in and see what he needs to work while down in the AHL. This was the best time to get him some experience and I think we will see how invaluable it was when we see him dominate in the AHL.

I'm no fan of Babcock and will happily hold him accountable on all his bull**** but I think they've handled this perfectly.

If getting a taste of the NHL is huge for his development then why have the Leafs' and Dubas been saying that is not the way they want to develop their top prospects?

 

[Leafsman]

If getting a taste of the NHL is huge for his development then why have the Leafs' and Dubas been saying that is not the way they want to develop their top prospects?

When did they say they would not bring up any prospect?

 

[biotk]

When did they say they would not bring up any prospect?

The organization has been saying for a while now (everyone from Dubas, to Babcock, to Keefe) that their plan for development of their top prospects was to wait until they were ready to take a spot permanently. That is what most good organizations do with their young prospects. Things are different from prospects who are older, but that is not the case with Sandin. Dubas made it clear when Zaitsev asked for a trade that he wouldn't be traded unless there was an equivalent player coming back because they were not rushing prospects. Babcock has said that the goal is to ensure that the player is ready to be a real hockey player the day they touch the NHL ice and that will require them frustrating players in the AHL before they get a shot. It's not my idea. It's the team's stated position.

There is simply no way that the team felt it would be good idea to give Sandin a 6 game tryout at 12 minutes a game. There was a plan in place and things went awry.

 

[Leafsman]

The organization has been saying for a while now (everyone from Dubas, to Babcock, to Keefe) that their plan for development of their top prospects was to wait until they were ready to take a spot permanently. That is what most good organizations do with their young prospects. Things are different from prospects who are older, but that is not the case with Sandin. Dubas made it clear when Zaitsev asked for a trade that he wouldn't be traded unless there was an equivalent player coming back because they were not rushing prospects. Babcock has said that the goal is to ensure that the player is ready to be a real hockey player the day they touch the NHL ice and that will require them frustrating players in the AHL before they get a shot. It's not my idea. It's the team's stated position.

There is simply no way that the team felt it would be good idea to give Sandin a 6 game tryout at 12 minutes a game. There was a plan in place and things went awry.

I would immensely disagree that most teams only bring up their prospects for permanent stays. That is wildly untrue. It is very common practice to bring up prospects for short stints to gain them experience and exposure while also assessing their capability of being able to play in the NHL or not.

I'd love to see some kind of quote of them saying they will not bring up any prospect because there is a slight problem with what you're saying:

Most prospects need some exposure in the NHL before they are ready for a permanent move to the NHL, and how can you know if they're ready for a permanent spot unless you attempt bringing them up.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lots of men to throw big hits in the AHL too, and sometimes you gotta eat the hit to make the play there as well. If this was the concern he would be in junior.

Not as fast paced in the ahl

 

[The Iceman]

We have all heard of bridge contracts
Sandin was our Dermott bridge.

Helped get us through most of the games Dermott will miss and allowed the brass to better evaluate who from the Marlies can bring an element required to our 3rd D pairing.

 

[Bluebear]

Why is he "loaned" to the Marlies instead of "Assigned?"

 

[biotk]

I would immensely disagree that most teams only bring up their prospects for permanent stays.

I didn't say that most teams did that. I said most good teams. Just as earlier I didn't say all prospects as you claimed, but top prospects.

Yes, it common practice for teams to bring up prospects for short stints to see if they are ready, but it is exactly that which the Leafs' claimed they were getting away from in favour of keeping top prospects down until they know they are ready. It was exactly this reason why they brought in a lot of depth so they wouldn't have to use their developing prospects to cover for injuries or fill in holes at the bottom of the roster.

It's laughable that people think that this stint has provided anything of value.

An injury to a D or two occurs.
Who can bring up?
Well Sandin has some experience in the NHL.
Great. How was he on the PP?
He is good at it in the AHL.
NHL?
Don't know.
How was he on the PK?
He is good at it in the AHL.
NHL?
Don't know.
How was he if he needs to play more minutes?

He is good at it in the AHL.
NHL?
Don't know.
How was he defending a lead?
He is good at it in the AHL.
NHL?
Don't know.
How was he when the game is tied?
He is good at it in the AHL.
NHL?
Don't know.​

 

[hector morrison]

Lol I’ve Been preaching to bring up Gravel for a while but I had no idea it was gonna be for sandin.

How the hell is Marincin and Holl still on the team

Yeah,i was hoping for Gravel /Sandin pairing to start as 3rd pair.

 

[Al14]

Why is he "loaned" to the Marlies instead of "Assigned?"

Or 'sent down?'

 

[hector morrison]

There is no reason to just lose depth just because, I guess. Sandin can get sent down freely so he goes down. Those guys need waivers so they can't.

Kinda thought Sandin was good enough for politics to not play a part in where he plays...Wrong again! I don't see the downside of Holl or Marincin being lost on the waiver wire...doesn't that save the Leafs money?

 

[CabanaBoy5]

The only reason I think this is a good idea is for the development of Sandin. He will learn alot more from Keefe playing in all situations than he will from Babcock. Babcock has a way of making our prospects regress (see Dermott last year). The bonus, the longer he is away from Babcock the more chance that when he returns the arrogant one won't be here.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

this is the proper move for the team and the players development. kid has been a stud but should be getting top minutes not hovering around 10 a game . let him and Lily rack up 20+ minutes a game for the marlies

 

[hector morrison]

All evidence points to one side being right - and that is the side of 24 minutes a game in the AHL is orders of magnitude better than 12 minutes a game in the NHL.

The NHL provides a higher level (much higher) of competition. The 12 min. or so of that is more valuable than the also-ran competition of the AHL. It isn't like he needs to learn how to play or build his confidence. He needs to experience the real deal.

 

[Prominence]

I think this was a plan decided on before the season where certain defensemen would have chances to play on the leafs in a rotation. Sandin will be back up soon when they realize he is the best option.

 

[Buds17]

Kinda thought Sandin was good enough for politics to not play a part in where he plays...Wrong again! I don't see the downside of Holl or Marincin being lost on the waiver wire...doesn't that save the Leafs money?

Either of Marincin or Holl would also count less against the Leafs' cap in comparison to Sandin though. Not to say that cap considerations or waiver status provide the explanation for demoting Sandin.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Not surprised Sandin has been sent down. He has not been very good and his contract slides if he's in the AHL. Guess he wasn't good enough for the 9 games.

Not so sure about Gravel though. There weren't a ton of great options on LD I guess, and I'd rather Kivihalme and Harpur get the Marlies ice time than to be sitting in the pressbox with the Leafs, which is what I expect is going to happen with Gravel until Dermott comes back.

They could have given Schmaltz another shot though. He is a RD and has been far more impressive than Gravel thus far. Would have been good competition for Holl and a potential #6 option once Dermott was back.

 

[hector morrison]

Funny Babcock was quoted as saying a completely different set of reasons.

Who cares what Babs says? He's full of it!He isn't gonna use waivers as an excuse ...not publicly!

 

[hector morrison]

Yeah,Sandin hadn't touched the puck yet,the head was targeted and no call was made. Also,no retaliation or response from any Leaf. Only the coach yelling at the Refs.

 

[hector morrison]

Gravel was pretty much what everyone hoped Harpur would be.

I don't mind giving him a shot.

Gravel was my choice because he seemed to care about protecting the front of the net. Leafs are collectively soft about that. Maybe Fred will play better with someone who can move opponents out of the way.

 

[hector morrison]

I think this was a plan decided on before the season where certain defensemen would have chances to play on the leafs in a rotation. Sandin will be back up soon when they realize he is the best option.

Well,Dermott being hurt was gonna provide a temporary opportunity for someone...that seemed obvious! So might as well try the kid. Perhaps Travis is coming back soon and/or the time is good to try other guys. I think what Gravel showed in camp makes him a good choice.