Wendelstache
Registered User
- May 5, 2010
- 9,869
- 3,786
Lilj and Sandin are young but they don't look out of place, maybe a year or two of seasoning and the sky is the limit for both of them.
QFT.
It's not that the Leafs D is terrible, they're probably about average amongst the league.
You've got the elites -- San Jose, Tampa, Nashville, Carolina, Calgary, Anaheim, St. Louis.
You've got the not quite elite, but certainly better than Toronto - Los Angeles, Winnipeg, Boston, Columbus, Minnesota, probably Washington.
And then you've got everyone else.. Toronto included.
The problem is, the Leafs have aspirations of winning the cup, and average isn't good enough.
I guess the real question is -- assuming the Leafs have high aspirations for Dermott, Liljegren and Sandin -- how do you fit all these guys in, and create development opportunities for them, when you need a deep group to compensate for the fact that you don't have a Drew Doughty, PK Subban, Erik Karlsson, etc. type player.
The one thing San Jose's defense wont be elite at is actually defending lol..
They should be playing crazy offensive high risk high reward hockey next year with Burns and EK on the back end.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Average has won two out of the three last Stanley Cups, and had another team in the finals.
It's quite obviously good enough, if you compensate for it elsewhere.
BodaciousBeefBazooka
Go Leafs Go
Golden knights are average and took other teams scraps and hammy downs per-say and made it to the final. Leafs shouldn't have an issue.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
A1LeafNation
Obsession beats talent everytime!!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,406
- 17,353
Leafs are in good hands with the defence moving forward. It will be a mistake to sign Gardiner.
Rielly Zaitsev
Dermott Liljegren
Sandin Ozhiganov
Borgman Carrick
Rosen Holl
Rielly Zaitsev
Dermott Liljegren
Sandin Ozhiganov
Borgman Carrick
Rosen Holl
BodaciousBeefBazooka
Go Leafs Go
Solid depth. They need more experience as they are still young and apparently dmen take longer to develop. Eventually everything will fall into place
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
Aaaaah, it’s great to be back in TO to watch some hockey. Not getting up at 7 am and trying to find a feed on the computer is a treat . But typing on an IPad sucks, nonetheless here’s my take.
I think the Leafs will be noticeably better defensively this year. I predicate this belief on a number of factors, starting with Babcock using the best 6/7/8 defesemen on the team. Based on last year’s team and all of two preseason outings, here would be my breakdown:
1) Rielly, with a strong potential of having a career year.
2) Gardiner, accepted inconsistency aside, we do better with him on the ice.
3) Zaitsev, if he plays the way he is capable.
4) Dermott, injury and Babs demand for more accepted, this kid is good.
5) Hainsey, overworked and aging his usage needs to be moderated.
6)
7)??? In no particular order: Rosen, Borgman, Oshginavonichaspellitzkov
8)
Four of the top 5 are LH D. To me this requires Babcock moving Rielly to the right side and pairing him with Gardiner/Dermott or the dark horses Rosen/Borgman. Personally, I’d like to see,
Dermott Rielly
Gardiner Zaitsev
Hainsey Osh....
(With Rosen, Borgman and later Liljegren as support)
Our forward group is bolstered by subtraction (JVR, Bozak), improved with Tavares, Johnsson and Kapanen, plus the growth in our younger players after having another season under their belts. I’ll add that I think Tavares will hold players to greater accountability than any previous player has managed the last 3 seasons.
Finally, I believe we will see more PP opportunities this year given our scary group of forwards. This will reduce the amount of time we spend in our own zone and should help our defensive results.
I think the Leafs will be noticeably better defensively this year. I predicate this belief on a number of factors, starting with Babcock using the best 6/7/8 defesemen on the team. Based on last year’s team and all of two preseason outings, here would be my breakdown:
1) Rielly, with a strong potential of having a career year.
2) Gardiner, accepted inconsistency aside, we do better with him on the ice.
3) Zaitsev, if he plays the way he is capable.
4) Dermott, injury and Babs demand for more accepted, this kid is good.
5) Hainsey, overworked and aging his usage needs to be moderated.
6)
7)??? In no particular order: Rosen, Borgman, Oshginavonichaspellitzkov
8)
Four of the top 5 are LH D. To me this requires Babcock moving Rielly to the right side and pairing him with Gardiner/Dermott or the dark horses Rosen/Borgman. Personally, I’d like to see,
Dermott Rielly
Gardiner Zaitsev
Hainsey Osh....
(With Rosen, Borgman and later Liljegren as support)
Our forward group is bolstered by subtraction (JVR, Bozak), improved with Tavares, Johnsson and Kapanen, plus the growth in our younger players after having another season under their belts. I’ll add that I think Tavares will hold players to greater accountability than any previous player has managed the last 3 seasons.
Finally, I believe we will see more PP opportunities this year given our scary group of forwards. This will reduce the amount of time we spend in our own zone and should help our defensive results.
bluumax
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2008
- 2,169
- 185
Even after the first 2 preseason games im feeling a lot more confident in our D (and i certainly wasn't on the panic wagon to begin with).
- Sandin and Lil both look good and im happy to let them develop and not see a min of NHL time for a season or two.
- Rosen, Borgman, Ozhiganov all look ready to contribute on the bottom pair.
- What we saw from Dermott last season was excellent, surely we have a top 4 guy there? this year is a big one for him.
- I think Zaitsev is gonna have a big bounce back season- I heard he was awesome at the world champs, hopefully he can convert that confidence and a healthy offseason into a good year.
Add that to Rielly, Gardener and Hainsey and we certainly aint sub par.
- Sandin and Lil both look good and im happy to let them develop and not see a min of NHL time for a season or two.
- Rosen, Borgman, Ozhiganov all look ready to contribute on the bottom pair.
- What we saw from Dermott last season was excellent, surely we have a top 4 guy there? this year is a big one for him.
- I think Zaitsev is gonna have a big bounce back season- I heard he was awesome at the world champs, hopefully he can convert that confidence and a healthy offseason into a good year.
Add that to Rielly, Gardener and Hainsey and we certainly aint sub par.
What isn't good enough about it? Is it because they allow too many goals?
They allowed the 3rd fewest goals in the conference last year, and allowed fewer goals than the Stanley Cup winner, so it doesn't really make any sense to say they aren't good enough.
Anthrax442
Registered User
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
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BlueForever75
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2017
- 5,691
- 2,303
Hainsey will be in top 6 just shouldn't be in top pair. I think it would be better to put him on bottom pair with someone like Borgman or Rosen. My pairings would be:
Reilly-Gardiner
Dermott-Zaitsev
Rosen-Hainsey
Reilly-Gardiner
Dermott-Zaitsev
Rosen-Hainsey
SoCal Leafs
Registered User
This is a sufficiently strong group to start the season with. True, the Leafs don't have a #1A D who is truly dominant offensively and defensively, but really most teams don't have one, and Rielly is at least a solid 1st pairing D. With the exception of Hainsey, the remaining D are not regressing and most still have yet to hit their ceiling, so we can reasonably expect improvement even without adding someone from outside the organization. Not to mention, the Leafs' depth at D is strong now, which is key when injuries inevitably hit.
People denigrate the Leafs' D corps as though it will stay static and remain locked in composition and skill through the end of the playoffs, but it's fair to say the group and skill level that starts the season won't be the same as the one that ends it--chances are it's better. This is an up-and-coming team all around, not just at the forward position. Apart from the internal improvement, the Leafs have plenty of time (before the trade deadline) and assets to use to acquire another D (or more) to bolster this group's deficiencies before the playoffs. Even if they don't add anyone new I won't assume that this D-corps is inevitably doomed to repeat the failings of last year's playoffs.
People denigrate the Leafs' D corps as though it will stay static and remain locked in composition and skill through the end of the playoffs, but it's fair to say the group and skill level that starts the season won't be the same as the one that ends it--chances are it's better. This is an up-and-coming team all around, not just at the forward position. Apart from the internal improvement, the Leafs have plenty of time (before the trade deadline) and assets to use to acquire another D (or more) to bolster this group's deficiencies before the playoffs. Even if they don't add anyone new I won't assume that this D-corps is inevitably doomed to repeat the failings of last year's playoffs.
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
- Jan 4, 2012
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- 11,413
CDN24
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 3,506
- 2,842
I would argue that the caps 2017-18 D, and the Pens for 15-16 and 16-17 are all better than the Leafs current D. Yes I know Letang missed the playoffs in 16-17. That is testament to the depth the Pens had. How does the leafs D look if the top guy gets hurt (still average?)
Leafs have a great young team, it would be a shame to let the opportunity that affords go to waste because management did not address the depth on D. Hainsey is to old for the minutes put on him last year.
OP said Leafs better than Tampa, has he looked at their top 2 D men lately?
Nithoniniel
Registered User
I don't think there's much of a case for that. Going into next season, Hainsey will be our fourth best d-men, maybe fifth if Dermott can be a strong presence. He was the #2 and #3 d-man on those Pens teams. Caps were definitely stronger than us though.
I agree that pushing Hainsey down to the third pairing, at the very least, will be crucial though.
They only allowed that many goals because the goalies saves their asses almost every game.
Andersen had a .918 and is a average-to-above-average starter, just like the defense. He's a bit overrated here because Leafs fans haven't seen a decent goalie since Belfour.
Regardless, the team doesn't allow too many goals to win.
Mcelhinney had a .930 save percentage which helps a ton to make their gaa as low as it is.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
NSH .9233
ANA .9231
LAK .9204
WPG .9173
TOR .9171
FLA .9144
COL .9136
TBL .9128
BOS .9121
CBJ .9120
The Leafs had good goaltending last year, but nothing crazy, and nothing most other top teams didn't also get.
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