Leafs D corp not that bad

[member 300185]

I just posted this in the Out of town Habs thread. I got sick of them saying how bad the Leafs D corp were so I looked up the stats and this is what I posted.

Ok. I will start by saying that I am a Leafs fan first and foremost, but I am a huge Habs fan second. My Uncles made me a Leaf fan and my dad was a huge Habs fan.

I am going to address some of the posters here that are flat out wrong and just want the leafs to fail because its in their blood to do so and I understand that. But lets have some common sense here.

To the poster who said the Leafs have to win 10-8 every game clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. The Leafs have a better D core than last season. Its the same and we will add 1 D men to replace Polak. This is known as addition through subtraction. Polak was brutal. Our D corp are Rielly, Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev, Dermott, Borgman/Carrick. The D likely to replace Polak is Igor Izhiganov. But we have Lillegrin, Holl, Lindgren, and possibly Marincin knocking on the door. Yes I said Marincin because he greatly improved with his run with the Marlies and taught him how to win. Lillegrin and Sandin are real blue chip prospects.

Also, losing JVR and Bozak will help with team defence because they are brutal. The young guys coming up to replace them are not. Johnson and Kapanen are very responsible in their own end.

Case in point. Last season only 12 times were there 6 and 5 goals scored against them. 5 times 6 were scored against and 7 times were 5 scored against. One of those times the leafs won 8-5 against the Rangers.

Thats 12 times. There is still another 70 games left. 9 times the Leafs goaltenders got shutouts. 25 times the Leafs had 2 or 1 goals scored against them. 25 times!! 7 of those were 1 goal games. So to keep track 34 times the leafs had 2 or less goals scored against them. The rest were 3 and 4 goal games and the leafs won most of those. 17 to be exact where the other team scored 3 or 4 goals.

The Leafs had a 105 point season. You dont have a 105 point season with a bad D corp. And yes, Rielly is a number 1 D man on most teams. He played PP, PK, ES, he played in all situations. There were only 11 teams better defensively. Some notable teams that were not better than the leafs were Tampa Bay, Washington Capitals (stanley cup champs.) Pittsburg Penguins, Florida Panthers, Chicago Blackhawks and the Rangers. The Leafs were better than all of them.

The best defensive team in the league had 5 or more scored them 8 times to the leafs 12 and one of those games was a 7 goals against game.

So not only did the Leafs not have a "bad" D corp, they actually had a very very good D corp. Again, better than Tampa Bay, Washington Capitals (stanley cup champs.) Pittsburg Penguins, Florida Panthers, Chicago Blackhawks and the Rangers. And the Leafs were the only team in the NHL with two 50 point D men.

So can the Habs put to rest the "Leafs have such a bad D corp" because it simply isn't true and it makes it look like the Habs dont know what they are talking about, and I dont like that at all as a Habs fan. There are only a few other teams who think the Leafs don't have a good D corp and that is the Senators and I am pretty sure you don't want to be compared to them.

All stats are accurate and came from NHL.com.

Click to read more...

 

[MyBudJT]

A bit lengthy, but biggest argument I make is how young our d is... they should get better in time

 

[notDatsyuk]

It is somewhat surprising that it has to be said again and again, but you're right.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Zaitsev will be a top pairing dman this year. Book it.

 

[rent free]

they gave up the 4th most shots against/gm in the league
they gave up a lot of high danger shots
their expected goals against was 6th worst in the league (lowest in the atlantic division and third lowest in the eastern conference)
their expected goals against/60 was 8th worst in the league (lowest in the atlantic division and fourth lowest in the eastern conference)
their save percentage was the 5th best in the league (highest in the atlantic divison and eastern conference)
the leafs goalies saved 23 goals above the average

a high expected goals against but a low actual goals against means the save percentage was great, aka the goaltending was amazing, which is exactly the case for the leafs

no matter how you slice and dice it, the defense was bad last season. however this is a new season and we will see if the defense can improve. its unlikely it will jump to a level where it is very good but who knows.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

coaching is the biggest area of concern to me. The Leafs individual defensemen and forwards are very talented, and they have good goaltending IMO. That's not to say I think the coaching will suck, but that it's the biggest area of importance for me

 

[DarkKnight]

coaching is the biggest area of concern to me. That Leafs individual defensemen and forwards are very talented, and they have good goaltending IMO. That's not to say I think the coaching will suck, but that it's the biggest area of importance for me

If I showed this comment to every GM, assistant GM, head coach, assistant coach in the league, and just one of them didn't shake their head I'd say you were right. You're in a dream world on this one...

 

[Jozay]

If zaitsev and dermott can step up and be solid top 4 dmen for us, that'd help a ton.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

If I showed this comment to every GM, assistant GM, head coach, assistant coach in the league, and just one of them didn't shake their head I'd say you were right. You're in a dream world on this one...

you don't think the Leafs defensive system plays a big role in how good they'll be defensively?

 

[Mr Hockey]

coaching is the biggest area of concern to me. The Leafs individual defensemen and forwards are very talented, and they have good goaltending IMO. That's not to say I think the coaching will suck, but that it's the biggest area of importance for me

Our coach according to the pro hockey world has/is one of the best coaches for the last decade and he improves the Leafs regular season standings yearly. Your opinion is ridiculous ... lol

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Our coach according to the pro hockey world has/is one ofof the best coaches for the last decade and he improves the Leafs regular season standings yearly. Your opinion is ridiculous ... lol

Why? I clarified I expect it to be important in how our defense performs, not that I expect him to be bad. do you disagree?

 

[member 300185]

they gave up the 4th most shots against/gm in the league
they gave up a lot of high danger shots
their expected goals against was 6th worst in the league (lowest in the atlantic division and third lowest in the eastern conference)
their expected goals against/60 was 8th worst in the league (lowest in the atlantic division and fourth lowest in the eastern conference)
their save percentage was the 5th best in the league (highest in the atlantic divison and eastern conference)
the leafs goalies saved 23 goals above the average

a high expected goals against but a low actual goals against means the save percentage was great, aka the goaltending was amazing, which is exactly the case for the leafs

no matter how you slice and dice it, the defense was bad last season. however this is a new season and we will see if the defense can improve. its unlikely it will jump to a level where it is very good but who knows.

Are you a Leaf fan? Just asking. What you just typed can be done for every NHL team. I looked at the positives while you grabbed at the negatives. They were so bad that the Leafs only had a 105 point season. Most of us are a "glass half full" group. You seem to be in the glass half empty group. Like I said, the Leafs were better than a lot of top teams like the Lightning, Capitals and Hawks. All 3 were Stanley cup champs. Be positive my friend. And like the other poster said, the Leafs D corp are very very young. Great things to come. The Leafs will be top 5 defensively this year and I am willing to bet on it. (injuries change that possibly).

 

[rent free]

Are you a Leaf fan? Just asking. What you just typed can be done for every NHL team. I looked at the positives while you grabbed at the negatives. They were so bad that the Leafs only had a 105 point season. Most of us are a "glass half full" group. You seem to be in the glass half empty group. Like I said, the Leafs were better than a lot of top teams like the Lightning, Capitals and Hawks. All 3 were Stanley cup champs. Be positive my friend. And like the other poster said, the Leafs D corp are very very young. Great things to come. The Leafs will be top 5 defensively this year and I am willing to bet on it. (injuries change that possibly).

yes, i am a leafs fan. i'm just not as positive about our team or the defense specifically as you and many other leaf fans are. that being said i'm still very optimistic for this upcoming season. i think they have a legit chance at winning a playoff round. it would be amazing for the team, management and the fans.

you are over exaggerating when you typed "They were so bad that the Leafs only had a 105 point season." i never said the leafs are a bad team, i just said the leafs have a bad defense. i even mentioned how they're goaltending is great in my first post. it was why they had the 12th best gaa in the league. the offence was undoubtedly amazing last season and more likely than not it will be amazing this upcoming season.

the leafs weren't as good as top teams like the lightning, capitals and hawks when they made it to the finals (tampa hasn't won the cup in the recent era). those teams were complete teams while the leafs are 2/3 of a complete team so far.

the reason i am not in the "glass half full" group is because there isn't anything new to discuss when you are dealing with a certain topic. if you look at a situation from a positive perspective, like many other leafs do, then i'd be bound to say the same thing as many other leaf posters. many leaf fans are always in the "glass half full" so i like to bring a new perspective to the boards.

i'm also someone that is usually in the unpopular opinion group and that isn't specifically towards the leafs, its towards many topics that i hear about.

top-5 defensively would be a monumental task for the leafs this upcoming season. i don't think you should be willing to bet on it.

 

[member 300185]

yes, i am a leafs fan. i'm just not as positive about our team or the defense specifically as you and many other leaf fans are. that being said i'm still very optimistic for this upcoming season. i think they have a legit chance at winning a playoff round. it would be amazing for the team, management and the fans.

you are over exaggerating when you typed "They were so bad that the Leafs only had a 105 point season." i never said the leafs are a bad team, i just said the leafs have a bad defense. i even mentioned how they're goaltending is great in my first post. it was why they had the 12th best gaa in the league. the offence was undoubtedly amazing last season and more likely than not it will be amazing this upcoming season.

the leafs weren't as good as top teams like the lightning, capitals and hawks when they made it to the finals (tampa hasn't won the cup in the recent era). those teams were complete teams while the leafs are 2/3 of a complete team so far.

the reason i am not in the "glass half full" group is because there isn't anything new to discuss when you are dealing with a certain topic. if you look at a situation from a positive perspective, like many other leafs do, then i'd be bound to say the same thing as many other leaf posters. many leaf fans are always in the "glass half full" so i like to bring a new perspective to the boards.

i'm also someone that is usually in the unpopular opinion group and that isn't specifically towards the leafs, its towards many topics that i hear about.

top-5 defensively would be a monumental task for the leafs this upcoming season. i don't think you should be willing to bet on it.

Fair points but there is new info. Polak, JVR and Bozak out. They were terrible defensively and the guys coming in are actually younger, and better.

 

[thewave]

you don't think the Leafs defensive system plays a big role in how good they'll be defensively?

It does, we played Boston all wrong. We also made a series of adjustments all season long trying different things. Some don't see it, our problem was getting the team to work together, team D killed us. That's what they studied all summer and are going to fix this season from what I heard.

 

[Battle Lin]

rielly
gardiner
zaitsev
hainsey
dermott

come on, this isn't a bad top 5 at all, its more than solid enough, we got an elite offense, and a good goalie, plenty enough to compete

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It does, we played Boston all wrong. We also made a series of adjustments all season long trying different things. Some don't see it, our problem was getting the team to work together, team D killed us. That's what they studied all summer and are going to fix this season from what I heard.

exactly. The stretch pass was particularly bad, as we had the most attempts and lowest success rate out of any team in the league. that stuff is important to fix if we want the team to be better defensively

 

[Peiskos]

Don't listen to what Habs fans say about the Leafs on their board, they are for the most part jealous and envious of how we've been able to rebuild and return to respectability. They are especially bitter now that their team is a raging dumpster fire and how we utterly dominated them all last season. Attempting to kick a team that is clearly on the rise (Leafs) makes them feel good no matter how little sense it makes.

 

[Menzinger]

I’d agree tbat it’s not the disaster many claim it to be.

Polak gone is a huge addition by subtraction- the Leafs have the potential to haves pretty decent bottom pairing this season. And if Zaitsev even mildly rebounds things will be looking fine.

 

[pcruz]

rielly
gardiner
zaitsev
hainsey
dermott

come on, this isn't a bad top 5 at all, its more than solid enough, we got an elite offense, and a good goalie, plenty enough to compete

So a “#2”, 2 “#3”s, an old defender who was driven into the ground last season and a player with the potential to be a “#2-3”.

It’s certainly not the worst corps, but it’s not anywhere near strong enough. The biggest problem is that the forwards don’t seem to want to help enough to make up for the lack of defensive acumen.

When compared to the top defensive teams, it’s abysmal. We have a team with 2 or 3 players who would be ahead of anyone on the Leafs (San Jose), and many with a much stronger top 6.

Hopeful that Babs can drill into these guys the importance of defending as a whole.

 

[member 300185]

Don't listen to what Habs fans say about the Leafs on their board, they are for the most part jealous and envious of how we've been able to rebuild and return to respectability. They are especially bitter now that their team is a raging dumpster fire and how we utterly dominated them all last season. Attempting to kick a team that is clearly on the rise (Leafs) makes them feel good no matter how little sense it makes.

True, but like here, there are some pretty good posters that have some common sense.

 

[BAM]

So a “#2”, 2 “#3”s, an old defender who was driven into the ground last season and a player with the potential to be a “#2-3”.

It’s certainly not the worst corps, but it’s not anywhere near strong enough. The biggest problem is that the forwards don’t seem to want to help enough to make up for the lack of defensive acumen.

When compared to the top defensive teams, it’s abysmal. We have a team with 2 or 3 players who would be ahead of anyone on the Leafs (San Jose), and many with a much stronger top 6.

Hopeful that Babs can drill into these guys the importance of defending as a whole.

Rielly is a 1D
Gardiner is a 3D
Zaitsev if he rebounds is a good top 4 D as is Hainsey
Dermott has top 4 potential and had a great rookie year

That's 5/6 that are top 4 quality with a 1D in Rielly (he is by eye test and stats)

 

[weems]

Dermott is a massive X Factor.

He has the skillset to develop into a great top 4 with upside of top pairing.

Had a rough series against Boston but thats not suprising considering hes not even played a full season.

We need him to be real good and Zaitsev to play better and I think the upside for a decent corps is there.

Would like to see us fix our breakouts and support the puck better.

 

[pcruz]

Rielly is a 1D
Gardiner is a 3D
Zaitsev if he rebounds is a good top 4 D as is Hainsey
Dermott has top 4 potential and had a great rookie year

That's 5/6 that are top 4 quality with a 1D in Rielly (he is by eye test and stats)

The danger in evaluating like this is that one makes it seem like Reilly (who is a really good player) is on the same level as: Karlsson, Burns, Ekman Larson, Doughty, Herman, etc...

Maybe this year he’ll be around the Kieth and Letang range.

 

[BAM]

The danger in evaluating like this is that one makes it seem like Reilly (who is a really good player) is on the same level as: Karlsson, Burns, Ekman Larson, Doughty, Herman, etc...

Maybe this year he’ll be around the Kieth and Letang range.

He's better than OEL and that's dumb logic. Matthews and Tavares are both 1C's but they're not Crosby,Malkin, McDavid...does that mean they're not 1C's?