Leafs D corp not that bad

[Damisoph]

I'm sure this post went over well on the Habs board

replacing Bozak with Tavares is going to upgrade the team D, without a doubt. God love Bozak and JVR but they were horrific in their own end.

 

[Fogelhund]

Agreed and every zone clearance is off the glass and out. Cant make a d zone pass for an exit to save his soul.

I tried to find icing stats for Polak... he didn't play enough games to show up in the tool I used.... But Gardiner had the most icings of any player in the NHL last year.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

Our D will be fine, especially with the kids in the pipeline. No we don't have the "traditional" defensive defencemen. But quite frankly, it doesn't matter because our management seems to favour mobility and puck movement, which we have plenty of. Some may not agree with it, but I respect that they have a plan/stance on what they want/value, and are staying true to it when drafting.

I do think that focusing on mobile defencemen that can move the puck makes sense with our forward core and system that emphasizes possession. Time will tell

 

[Slyfox]

Its not a bad d corp its Babcock imo how should shoulder some of the blame for the some of the problems last year. The Leafs attempted the most stretch passes in the league and we had the worst success rate in the league as well. When always going for stretch passes it puts a lot of pressure on the defence if they fail to pass it to the forwards. Also, playing Polak was a mistake and for some reason seeing Gardiner not using his skating to bring the puck up instead of firing hail marys from our blue line seemed like a coaching decision as well.

And I swear the Leafs strategy was chip and chase, dump and chase and fire/flip the puck off the glass when exiting our zone. Hainsey especially. Made no sense.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

I'm not panicked by our D or pressured into trading somebody like Nylander because of 2 things that Dubas always says.

The first is that he keeps coming back to the statement "(x-player) plays defense the way we want to play defense, by getting the puck up ice as quickly as possible." (I know it's not an exact quote please forgive me)

The second is that their defense is built to score points or to help their forwards score more points.

Physicality is a clear issue on the back end since we lack any hulking Dmen. However, after Polak, all leaf fans would rather just have 6 talented defensemen than having a... Polak.

 

[Drytoast]

I think you guys are going to notice hopefully that the back checking of the forwards is going to substantially improve due to the absence of JVR and Bozak.

That should be the big change in d for us this year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Stay on the Habs board IMO.

 

[81Leafs50]

The Leafs had a 105 point season. You dont have a 105 point season with a bad D corp. And yes, Rielly is a number 1 D man on most teams. He played PP, PK, ES, he played in all situations. There were only 11 teams better defensively. Some notable teams that were not better than the leafs were Tampa Bay, Washington Capitals (stanley cup champs.) Pittsburg Penguins, Florida Panthers, Chicago Blackhawks and the Rangers. The Leafs were better than all of them.

The best defensive team in the league had 5 or more scored them 8 times to the leafs 12 and one of those games was a 7 goals against game.

So not only did the Leafs not have a "bad" D corp, they actually had a very very good D corp. Again, better than Tampa Bay, Washington Capitals (stanley cup champs.) Pittsburg Penguins, Florida Panthers, Chicago Blackhawks and the Rangers. And the Leafs were the only team in the NHL with two 50 point D men.

what are the metrics you are using to compare teams, when you say the Leafs are better defensively???

 

[Trapper]

Consistency issues with the group forces them to have to prove themselves on a yearly basis to get past the stigma.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Ten years from now after the Leafs have just won their third Cup, and Liljegren, Dermot, Sandin, Durzi, Rasenum, are manning the Leafs defence, we will keep on hearing from Leafs haters or just folks that don't wanted to look at facts that the Leafs have a lousy defence and can't win a Cup without a number one dman.

Similarly Arizona who under new ownership are spending freely and is destination for UFAs and they have reached the Cup finals in three of five years, some folks will still be saying, "Send LTIR players to the Coyotes because they need to reach the cap floor."

 

[jaric1862]

Leafs D core is not exactly a high quality one but it has great depth. I think we have a bunch of NHL caliber defenceman in the organization, even past the 7 guys that we will have on the roster this season. We also have a young D-core and it has potential to become a high quality defence.

 

[Terrible GM]

I never had a problem with our D core except how Polak would turtle the puck when he was pressured. The only area concern I had last year was the overall team defense. Too many times forwards left the D zone early expecting our D to clear it, only to have them pressured/out numbered, and end up turning the puck over, or blindly clear the puck around the boards expecting a forward to be there. As our core gets older and more experienced I think we will see better team defense. I don't think the Leafs make a run till they have that "get it" moment. Not sure if that happens this year or next, but like any team it should come.

 

[member 300185]

I'm sure this post went over well on the Habs board

replacing Bozak with Tavares is going to upgrade the team D, without a doubt. God love Bozak and JVR but they were horrific in their own end.

It wasn't too bad on the Habs board at all. I think it needed to be said and it had a very dramatic affect. The idiots stopped saying the Leafs D was the worse D in the league and the smart posters over there agreed with me anyway. I think its in the wording.

And you make excellent points about JVR and Bozak. Good post my friend.

 

[Polaris1010]

Leafs defense kind of average, maybe just slightly above average.

The question is this. Can this team play and win those 1-0 games or 2-1 games in the playoffs.

Back to back years, suggests they cannot or have not have learned how to.

Those tight playoff games of 1-0 or 2-1, is not all dependent on the defense. The forwards are a big part of those games. One missed assignment or breakdown by a forward can cost the team the series.

 

[Polaris1010]

Leafs defense kind of average, maybe just slightly above average.

The question is this. Can this team play and win those 1-0 games or 2-1 games in the playoffs.

Back to back years, suggests they cannot or have not have learned how to.

Those tight playoff games of 1-0 or 2-1, is not all dependent on the defense. The forwards are a big part of those games. One missed assignment or breakdown by a forward can cost the team the series.

 

[Goleafsgo95]

As many have pointed out, we do have some quality pieces on the backend. It is actually the best D-core we have had in 20 years if I am not mistaken, so it is funny how much scrutiny it gets although I understand it.

Yes, JVR and Bozak are gone. Polak is gone. Overall, on paper, the team is better defensively, even though we have not yet added a RHD. Dubas is smart and using his time, like he said he will. If none of the up and comers emerge as an impact player on the blueline, he will likely make a move. Make no mistake, this is the first year where management might make a meaningful win-now play at the deadline and go all in, within reason of course. Our cup window is open.

Even if Dubas doesn't make a move, the main thing we have working to our advantage is this: as another poster pointed out, regular season and playoff hockey are completely different. This team will be able to score a pile of goals. Making the playoffs won't be a concern and because of this, the regular season will be used by Babcock as a "training camp" for the playoffs, so to speak.

Some of Babcock's decisions are head-scratchers for sure, but at the end of the day he knows a lot more than we do. There is a method behind his madness and there is a reason he is one of the most respected coaches in the game. He said himself it feels like his work here is just beginning, because the cup window is here and now. Babcock will coach us to a cup if not this year, soon.

 

[member 300185]

As many have pointed out, we do have some quality pieces on the backend. It is actually the best D-core we have had in 20 years if I am not mistaken, so it is funny how much scrutiny it gets although I understand it.

Yes, JVR and Bozak are gone. Polak is gone. Overall, on paper, the team is better defensively, even though we have not yet added a RHD. Dubas is smart and using his time, like he said he will. If none of the up and comers emerge as an impact player on the blueline, he will likely make a move. Make no mistake, this is the first year where management might make a meaningful win-now play at the deadline and go all in, within reason of course. Our cup window is open.

Even if Dubas doesn't make a move, the main thing we have working to our advantage is this: as another poster pointed out, regular season and playoff hockey are completely different. This team will be able to score a pile of goals. Making the playoffs won't be a concern and because of this, the regular season will be used by Babcock as a "training camp" for the playoffs, so to speak.

Some of Babcock's decisions are head-scratchers for sure, but at the end of the day he knows a lot more than we do. There is a method behind his madness and there is a reason he is one of the most respected coaches in the game. He said himself it feels like his work here is just beginning, because the cup window is here and now. Babcock will coach us to a cup if not this year, soon.

Some very good points here. But I am wondering, (bolded) how many teams have actually won a cup when making a move at the deadline? There is always 2 or 3 decent pick ups but I can't remember an impact any player made on a Stanley Cup team.

 

[shortfuze]

I never thought the defence was the problem. It was the team defence that was an issue. When the forwards are hanging each other out to dry and not back checking it becomes a huge problem.

 

[Goleafsgo95]

Some very good points here. But I am wondering, (bolded) how many teams have actually won a cup when making a move at the deadline? There is always 2 or 3 decent pick ups but I can't remember an impact any player made on a Stanley Cup team.

That's a good point. Gaborik to the Kings and Recchi to the Canes are the only recent ones I can think of. The thing is in our case it will be about filling a hole (RHD) if there happens to be one so it will likely be impactful.

Edit: Also Hainsey to the Pens though it was originally seen as a depth acquisition ended up being a key add. Ironically this is the type of player we need to round things out only young and a right shot.

 

[zeke]

The Leafs literally have one of the most talented and mobile dcorps in hockey.

 

[zeke]

The danger in evaluating like this is that one makes it seem like Reilly (who is a really good player) is on the same level as: Karlsson, Burns, Ekman Larson, Doughty, Herman, etc...

Maybe this year he’ll be around the Kieth and Letang range.

no reason not to put Rielly on a level with OEL, and Burns is as one dimensional a dman as there is in the league.

 

[ottomaddox]

I never thought the defence was the problem. It was the team defence that was an issue. When the forwards are hanging each other out to dry and not back checking it becomes a huge problem.

Gardiner: I've seen him go half-speed when the puck is turned over on the PP. He thinks that because the other team is short handed that there is no threat. All of a sudden his lack of care cost us a short handed goal. Gardiner loses many puck battles. Sometimes to people that are 50 pounds lighter than him. Gardiner had an inconsistent playoff series against BOS. Some good nights and some nights he would like to forget (-5 rating in one game).

Zaitsev: Missed assignments, giveaways, and many lost puck battles. Started to play better towards the end of the season and into the playoffs.

Dermott: Some giveaways, and some missed assignments.

Rielly: Some giveaways, and some missed assignments.

Hainsey: great start last season, and good start of the season when penalty killing. Well documented poor end to the season, and poor penalty killing at the end of the season.

Rielly / Dermott where the most consistent IMHO, but Dermott only played a limited time (37 games) with TOR.


I get your point. The team defence fell down several nights and assignments were missed, but it's really hard not to ignore the above list of deficiencies.

 

[Zach Hoglund]

Leafs defense kind of average, maybe just slightly above average.

The question is this. Can this team play and win those 1-0 games or 2-1 games in the playoffs.

Back to back years, suggests they cannot or have not have learned how to.

Those tight playoff games of 1-0 or 2-1, is not all dependent on the defense. The forwards are a big part of those games. One missed assignment or breakdown by a forward can cost the team the series.

They improved to 13-6 in one goal games up from 7-8 in the regular season. In 2016-17 each game against the Caps was a one goal game. They played 2-4 in that series. Against Boston they won the two games that were decided by a goal.

 

[TakeTheBody]

Jake is playing for a contract and just had a kid ( Congrats). I can see his season being really good or going off the deep end. Not much room for somewhere in the middle. Personally I think he's going to have his best season as a Leaf. Which could lead to him being traded at deadline. Dubas will realize with the forwards he still has to sign in the off season and the money Jake will be asking for he's unsignable. You can't let him walk.

 

[sxvnert]

Its good enough for the regular season but will get blasted in the playoffs.