Leafs D corp not that bad

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Dermott is a massive X Factor.

He has the skillset to develop into a great top 4 with upside of top pairing.

Had a rough series against Boston but thats not suprising considering hes not even played a full season.

We need him to be real good and Zaitsev to play better and I think the upside for a decent corps is there.

Would like to see us fix our breakouts and support the puck better.

his series against Boston wasn't even that bad, honestly. He faced tougher QoC, and his cf% actually improved. he was shaky at times, but he was also straddled with Polak

 

[weems]

his series against Boston wasn't even that bad, honestly. He faced tougher QoC, and his cf% actually improved. he was shaky at times, but he was also straddled with Polak

I dont think he was horrific or anything but was uncharacteristically sloppy with the puck and made some questionable reads.

Definitely wasnt a good series and this is coming from one of his biggest supporters.

 

[TDotMassive]

The danger in evaluating like this is that one makes it seem like Reilly (who is a really good player) is on the same level as: Karlsson, Burns, Ekman Larson, Doughty, Herman, etc...

Maybe this year he’ll be around the Kieth and Letang range.

He's as good as OEL, and as good as half the 1D's in the league. He had a 50 pt season last year and is still getting better each season. Reilly might not be Karlsson or Burns, he might not win a Norris, but he is still a 1D good enough to anchor a cup winning team.

 

[TDotMassive]

I dont think he was horrific or anything but was uncharacteristically sloppy with the puck and made some questionable reads.

Definitely wasnt a good series and this is coming from one of his biggest supporters.

He was much better in the last few games than the first... not surprising given the difference in intensity come playoffs time. I'm sure it took him abit to adjust. He looks like a lock for a top-4 D at this point (already a huge win for a 2nd round pick), but if he grows into a top pairing guy over the next couple seasons, it will be a game changer for the Leafs D.

 

[TakeTheBody]

Not that bad.

Until you need them.

Still work to do.

 

[Anthrax442]

The whole team got pounded by Boston. I think the biggest issue was the fact that they have cruised most of the season and Boston came at them with fire and fury and the young Leafs didn't know what hit em. These defensemen were much better against the Caps a year before. Every game was a 1 goal game and they never looked overwhelmed.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The right side of the leafs D is weak and everything needs to go right for them to compete with teams like Boston and Tampa.

Zaitsev looks better in the preseason than he did in the playoffs. He just needs to start carrying the puck more and not throw it away.

Hainsey can realistically only play 15 minutes a night so partnering him with Rielly doesn’t make a lot of sense.

They should partner Zaitsev with Rielly and Gardiner with Dermott on the right side. Then use Hainsey with Ozhiganov on the third pairing killing penalties.

It wasn’t just the leafs Defensive personnel that was at fault in the playoffs. Babcock also failed to make the proper adjustments to the Bruins matchups and attack strategy.

 

[Obliviate]

they gave up the 4th most shots against/gm in the league
they gave up a lot of high danger shots
their expected goals against was 6th worst in the league (lowest in the atlantic division and third lowest in the eastern conference)
their expected goals against/60 was 8th worst in the league (lowest in the atlantic division and fourth lowest in the eastern conference)
their save percentage was the 5th best in the league (highest in the atlantic divison and eastern conference)
the leafs goalies saved 23 goals above the average

a high expected goals against but a low actual goals against means the save percentage was great, aka the goaltending was amazing, which is exactly the case for the leafs

no matter how you slice and dice it, the defense was bad last season. however this is a new season and we will see if the defense can improve. its unlikely it will jump to a level where it is very good but who knows.

shot suppression is not just the responsibility of the the D

 

[RoadWarrior]

shot suppression is not just the responsibility of the the D

Bozak and JVR contributed to some of the defensive issues.

 

[luvdahattymatty]

This season our forward group is unmatched by anyone else in the NHL. I don't think it will even be close who comes in 2nd in goals scored. We will quite frankly outscore everyone. The only games we lose are either our goalie sh*ts the bed or other teams goalie stands on his head. This will account for 20 games roughly every year it is roughly the same. Our d group although extremely weak in their own end is pretty good in the neutral zone and the offensive end. they will help us score the goals. The puck is going to be in the opponents end a lot this year. This is how the team was built with skate first offensive d men. Outside of Hainsey who used to be an offensive player too no one plays defence. I see the team easily wining first place and avoiding Boston in first round. It is in the playoffs where i worry a lot. Time and space is reduced and forechecking gets fierce. Eventually the coach who is a smart guy will figure it out. i hope it is this year. It gets much harder to run and gun in the playoffs. In regular season yes it works amazing.

 

[member 300185]

I have been painstakingly watching the Boston series and about 75% of the time they dumped it in on the right side. Boston figured the Leafs out and Babcock got out coached plain and simple.

 

[OVO16]

Honestly, Im fine with everyone other than Ron Hainsey. It's paramount we find a top pairing RD to replace Hainsey. For Example, say Trouba.

Rielly-Trouba
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Ozhiganov

That to me, is a solid D-Core. I also realize that keeping Gardiner is going to be tough due to to salary cap after next season.

Rielly-Trouba
Dermott-Zaitsev
Borgman-Oziganov

That to me is also extremely solid, assuming guys like Borgman and Oziganov make huge strides.

 

[Community]

I mean, our defense isnt going to be fantastic and we are definitely missing a top shutdown/matchup defender, but we have at least:

#1 Dman (~20th) - Rielly
#2 Dman (~45th) - Gardiner
#4 Dman - Zaitsev (could rebound to a #2-3)
#5 Dman - Dermott (could progress to #3-4)
#5 Dman - Hainsey (was a ~#4 last year, guessing he regresses a bit)

The big issue is that we dont have a top 3 dman that excels defensively, but our quality from 1-5 is good with multiple options to fill out the #6 spot, growth from pretty much all players (besides Hainsey) is expected, and a good defensive prospect pool.

*Before people bash Gardiner, he put up 50pts (on the 2nd pp too) which is very good. He had a great season last year.


Also OP, I dont think there is any need to bold the entire post...

 

[TDotMassive]

Honestly, Im fine with everyone other than Ron Hainsey. It's paramount we find a top pairing RD to replace Hainsey. For Example, say Trouba.

Rielly-Trouba
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Ozhiganov

That to me, is a solid D-Core. I also realize that keeping Gardiner is going to be tough due to to salary cap after next season.

Rielly-Trouba
Dermott-Zaitsev
Borgman-Oziganov

That to me is also extremely solid, assuming guys like Borgman and Oziganov make huge strides.

Ya I agree... and also Rosen, who looked like the Marlies best D most of the playoffs, and on the right side Liljegren and Sandin coming up over the next few years... it's a pretty decent group with potential going forward.

 

[diceman934]

I just posted this in the Out of town Habs thread. I got sick of them saying how bad the Leafs D corp were so I looked up the stats and this is what I posted.

Ok. I will start by saying that I am a Leafs fan first and foremost, but I am a huge Habs fan second. My Uncles made me a Leaf fan and my dad was a huge Habs fan.

I am going to address some of the posters here that are flat out wrong and just want the leafs to fail because its in their blood to do so and I understand that. But lets have some common sense here.

To the poster who said the Leafs have to win 10-8 every game clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. The Leafs have a better D core than last season. Its the same and we will add 1 D men to replace Polak. This is known as addition through subtraction. Polak was brutal. Our D corp are Rielly, Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev, Dermott, Borgman/Carrick. The D likely to replace Polak is Igor Izhiganov. But we have Lillegrin, Holl, Lindgren, and possibly Marincin knocking on the door. Yes I said Marincin because he greatly improved with his run with the Marlies and taught him how to win. Lillegrin and Sandin are real blue chip prospects.

Also, losing JVR and Bozak will help with team defence because they are brutal. The young guys coming up to replace them are not. Johnson and Kapanen are very responsible in their own end.

Case in point. Last season only 12 times were there 6 and 5 goals scored against them. 5 times 6 were scored against and 7 times were 5 scored against. One of those times the leafs won 8-5 against the Rangers.

Thats 12 times. There is still another 70 games left. 9 times the Leafs goaltenders got shutouts. 25 times the Leafs had 2 or 1 goals scored against them. 25 times!! 7 of those were 1 goal games. So to keep track 34 times the leafs had 2 or less goals scored against them. The rest were 3 and 4 goal games and the leafs won most of those. 17 to be exact where the other team scored 3 or 4 goals.

The Leafs had a 105 point season. You dont have a 105 point season with a bad D corp. And yes, Rielly is a number 1 D man on most teams. He played PP, PK, ES, he played in all situations. There were only 11 teams better defensively. Some notable teams that were not better than the leafs were Tampa Bay, Washington Capitals (stanley cup champs.) Pittsburg Penguins, Florida Panthers, Chicago Blackhawks and the Rangers. The Leafs were better than all of them.

The best defensive team in the league had 5 or more scored them 8 times to the leafs 12 and one of those games was a 7 goals against game.

So not only did the Leafs not have a "bad" D corp, they actually had a very very good D corp. Again, better than Tampa Bay, Washington Capitals (stanley cup champs.) Pittsburg Penguins, Florida Panthers, Chicago Blackhawks and the Rangers. And the Leafs were the only team in the NHL with two 50 point D men.

So can the Habs put to rest the "Leafs have such a bad D corp" because it simply isn't true and it makes it look like the Habs dont know what they are talking about, and I dont like that at all as a Habs fan. There are only a few other teams who think the Leafs don't have a good D corp and that is the Senators and I am pretty sure you don't want to be compared to them.

All stats are accurate and came from NHL.com.

I stopped reading after you said you were a huge Hab fan.

 

[Fogelhund]

Fair points but there is new info. Polak, JVR and Bozak out. They were terrible defensively and the guys coming in are actually younger, and better.

Neat stat...

Polak had a better On Ice Save Percentage than every other D, except for Dermott last year.
Bozak had the best on Ice Save Percentage, of any full season Forward on the Leafs last year.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Neat stat...

Polak had a better On Ice Save Percentage than every other D, except for Dermott last year.
Bozak had the best on Ice Save Percentage, of any full season Forward on the Leafs last year.

Lol Polak really? He can’t prevent zone entries and can’t provide zone exits. His SV% could be good, but he can’t do fundamental defensive tasks.

 

[ottomaddox]

I saw many players who play on this year's roster play badly at the end of the season and in the playoffs.

Key players like Andersen, Gardiner, Hainsey, Matthews, and Dermott all played parts in giveaways, gafs, unmarked players, soft goals, and lethargic play.

Forgive me if I don't subscribe to the OP's bold letters.

 

[Fogelhund]

Lol Polak really? He can’t prevent zone entries and can’t provide zone exits. His SV% could be good, but he can’t do fundamental defensive tasks.

What you say is mostly true... but preventing the puck from going in the net, at a lower rate than others, is a fundamental defensive task.. I just found it odd, and interesting, I'm not making an argument as to his defensive prowess.

 

[A1LeafNation]

What you say is mostly true... but preventing the puck from going in the net, at a lower rate than others, is a fundamental defensive task.. I just found it odd, and interesting, I'm not making an argument as to his defensive prowess.

I think volume of shots in this argument is relevant too. I don’t have those stats, I’m betting it’s higher than most of the remaining Leafs dmen.

 

[Magic Man]

They have more than enough talent in the pipeline. Like Dermott last year, someone will reveal themselves.

 

[member 300185]

I stopped reading after you said you were a huge Hab fan.

Lol but bigger Leaf fan.

 

[member 300185]

Lol Polak really? He can’t prevent zone entries and can’t provide zone exits. His SV% could be good, but he can’t do fundamental defensive tasks.

Agreed and every zone clearance is off the glass and out. Cant make a d zone pass for an exit to save his soul.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think volume of shots in this argument is relevant too. I don’t have those stats, I’m betting it’s higher than most of the remaining Leafs dmen.

If you look at Shots attempts against, per 20 minutes of ice time, it would look like this....

Travis Dermott	12.90541
Morgan Rielly	13.17905
Ron Hainsey	13.27616
Jake Gardiner	13.35138
Nikita Zaitsev	13.71343
Roman Polak	14.03987
Andreas Borgman	14.67275

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Of course the challenge being.... which of these shot attempts against are easy to save, hard to save... quality chances.... it's tough to draw exact conclusions.

It's interesting in continuing to show that Dermott really excelled though. If he can continue this strong play, for a full season, or even improve, having him full season on the LD, will improve the team alone.

Zaitsev needs to step up his game, and return to form as well.

 

[luvdahattymatty]

You guys know all these great stats numbers which always amazes me. But i always remember what my daughter who is an actuary at Sun Life always says 'you can make a stat say whatever you want'. and 'many stats tend to create confusion'. lastly 'it is very difficult to figure out corelation between different stats'. In hockey you guys are changing the game with your stats which is good it is progress. I would like to know what all these stats were for playoff hockey only. Because regular season hockey is a totally different game than playoff hockey.