LD Jake Sanderson - Univ. of North Dakota, NCAA (2020, 5th, OTT) Part 2

[BondraTime]

Well he chose to follow in his father's footsteps up to that point.

His fathers footsteps being playing hockey where they lived? Because he never followed in his fathers footsteps, whatsoever.

 

[robert ethan]

His fathers footsteps being playing hockey where they lived? Because he never followed in his fathers footsteps, whatsoever.

Maybe Jake always wanted to be a fireman when he grew up but couldn't qualify for some reason, so he went to his fallback option of professional hockey player.

 

[Micklebot]

Geoff Sanderson said his son made his decision after the draft in an interview. Said he didn't push Jake one way or the other, but would like to have him closer to home.

I'm sure WHL teams were eager to use up a high draft pick on a kid who hadn't made up his mind yet and had the option to play with the USDP team.

 

[BondraTime]

I'm sure WHL teams were eager to use up a high draft pick on a kid who hadn't made up his mind yet and had the option to play with the USDP team.

Nah, WHL teams haven’t learnt from Toews, Jost, Fabbro, etc.

 

[Dr Quincy]

No, I'm just trying to figure out when, how, and why Sanderson came to be regarded as the better prospect. Not having much luck.

Scouts scout the abilities a 17 year old player has and try to project how those abilities will progress over the next few years. They then rank those players using a combination of potential upside/odds of hitting that upside/need/make up and other factors.

After scouting the hundreds of players who were eligible, the vast majority regarded Jake Sanderson to have the better ratio of upside/likelihood and other factors to rank Sanderson ahead of Kaiden Guhle.

These scouts can be wrong. They've been wrong before. But at this point it's inarguable that when the rankings MOST mattered, teams had Sanderson higher.

A better question to ask is: What has happened in the 5 months since the draft that has made Robert Ethan think that Kaiden Guhle has made that ranking by those many many scouts wrong?

 

[Burke6687]

No, I'm just trying to figure out when, how, and why Sanderson came to be regarded as the better prospect. Not having much luck.

The reason you are not having much luck is you are not honestly seeking to figure out why. You are here to argue and antagonize people. Players over the course of a year to multiple years grow and develop which is what you seem to not understand. Sanderson developed his game and grew into a better prospect according to people in the know who evaluate these things.

 

[NyQuil]

A better question to ask is: What has happened in the 5 months since the draft that has made Robert Ethan think that Kaiden Guhle has made that ranking by those many many scouts wrong?

I'm fairly certain the logo of the jersey that Guhle put on at draft day may have had some small part in it.

 

[Micklebot]

He didn't have a father who was a WHL legend in his time. If you look at the stats and awards that Guhle and Sanderson accumulated in AMHL concurrently, the draft spots correspond well.

Perhaps if you looked a little deeper into the box scores you seem to rely on you might have noticed the 7 teammates of Guhle's that were over a point per game (some of them well above) compared to the one teammate of Sanderson's who was just above a pt per game. With that in mind, you might be able to gleam why actual scouts wouldn't rely on box score to do their scouting...

 

[Dan Patrick]

Perhaps if you looked a little deeper into the box scores you seem to rely on you might have noticed the 7 teammates of Guhle's that were over a point per game (some of them well above) compared to the one teammate of Sanderson's who was just above a pt per game. With that in mind, you might be able to gleam why actual scouts wouldn't rely on box score to do their scouting...

I wouldn't count on it.

 

[coopooter]

Going to the NHL or AHL might not be rushing him.
And either way, he will develop next year.

But you burn a year of ELC for no reason

 

[MBH]

But you burn a year of ELC for no reason

Not if you use him.
I don't see much use to him going back to college if it is to "dominate."
I'd rather see him jump to the next level if that's the case.

 

[topshelf15]

But you burn a year of ELC for no reason

All of them do TBH

 

[Sensinitis]

Coming into this thread and realizing people are still arguing with the same person

 

[DrSense]

Saying someone "might" be the best when asked for an opinion on him is hardly a definitive statement. Have you ever heard a coach call the prospect who played for him mediocre?

Now you are reaching. Have you really ever heard a coach of 17 year olds speak definitely about how the future of their player will pan out? "Might" or "could" are included in virtually every characterization.

But in the end, that coach hasn't said this about any other D prospect in the last several years, so take it for what it is.

 

[DrSense]

To clarify, York and Sanderson had different head coaches for their age groups. Appert coached Sanderson 100% of his time at the NTDP. He might've coached York like 5% of his time at the NTDP. And from what I've read and heard in interviews, the teams don't mix that much in practices/scrimmages either, so I'm not sure he's even taking York into account when he makes a comment like that, not that I think the comparison between the two makes much sense.

And Appert hasn't coached that many USNTDP teams. The pool of defensemen he's competing against when Appert makes a comment like that is guys like Samuelsson, Miller, Wilde, Hughes (as an assistant), maybe York for about 5% of his games at the NTDP. It's a nice accolade, but it's not anything crazy.

Not sure. All I know is the coach compared Sanderson favourably to those NHLers I mentioned, many of who are considered elite. York is not really in the same conversation unless I missed somethiong, and that was the point. Sanderson is generally considered in a different class, although I will say any team would love to have York too. A great little D man with top 4 potential for sure.

 

[robert ethan]

Perhaps if you looked a little deeper into the box scores you seem to rely on you might have noticed the 7 teammates of Guhle's that were over a point per game (some of them well above) compared to the one teammate of Sanderson's who was just above a pt per game. With that in mind, you might be able to gleam why actual scouts wouldn't rely on box score to do their scouting...

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was comparing Guhle and Sanderson in AMHL. Prior to the Bantam draft, Guhle LED his U15 team in scoring with 40 points in 30 games. Same season, same level, little Jake was 8th on his team in scoring with 18 points in 30 odd games. Guhle was team captain, top defenseman and MVP. Sanderson was none of those things. The following year Guhle moved up to U18, dominated again, while Sanderson remained at U15 level before heading down to the US U17 team. Kaiden was clearly the superior talent at that point. The only times they played the same competition after that was at the U17 and U20 tournaments. Guhle put up better stats in both of those situations.

 

[Samsquanch]

Taking a strong stance against Jake Sanderson is some bizarre-ass shit imo... His ranking at the start of last season, and the mid-term one, is incredibly irrelevant as of today.

There is legitimately no other real knock against Sanderson other than his meteoric rise has caught some hard headed folks with their pants down. Metaphorically speaking

If you dont watch the games, his freshman stats are firmly in the upper half of Makar, McAvoy, Hughes, Werenski, Hanafin - and hes arguably the most solid defensively at that age in the NCAA).

Literally everyone who watches Jake closely not only sings his praises - but most of them will even go as far as saying he might be the prospect they've ever seen come through. And even if your not a fan of his, how is this possibly the hill you want to die on?

Team USA coaches opinions notwithstanding, if the Grand Forks lead sports reporter - someone whos seen firsthand and witnessed a freshman Jonathan Toews, Parise, Oshie, Boeser, Zajac ect ect - says that Sanderson is probably the best prospect EVER to come through there. Its something.

Starts at about the 35min mark.

Talking Hockey Sense with Brad Schlossman

So we have a late born kid with next level/bonkers skating, strong pro hockey bloodlines (hails from a ridiculous world class NHL speedster). Has the stats to back it up. The insane levels of praise by all of his handlers. A worth ethic and dedication to training/practice (either on the ice or in the gym at all times), and off the charts compete level. And he graduated through the highest and finest hockey programs the US has to offer. Then he capped it all off by being taken 5th overall by arguably the best scouting team in the league.

And so ya, its a downright silly to bet against Sanderson. Foolish imo. Hes as safe a pick as you can get in every sense of the definition.

 

[BondraTime]

Not sure. All I know is the coach compared Sanderson favourably to those NHLers I mentioned, many of who are considered elite. York is not really in the same conversation unless I missed somethiong, and that was the point. Sanderson is generally considered in a different class, although I will say any team would love to have York too. A great little D man with top 4 potential for sure.

Nick Fohr was the NTDP defensive coach for the past 10 years who said the quote, the coach he mentioned had nothing to do with anything

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

To clarify, York and Sanderson had different head coaches for their age groups. Appert coached Sanderson 100% of his time at the NTDP. He might've coached York like 5% of his time at the NTDP. And from what I've read and heard in interviews, the teams don't mix that much in practices/scrimmages either, so I'm not sure he's even taking York into account when he makes a comment like that, not that I think the comparison between the two makes much sense.

And Appert hasn't coached that many USNTDP teams. The pool of defensemen he's competing against when Appert makes a comment like that is guys like Samuelsson, Miller, Wilde, Hughes (as an assistant), maybe York for about 5% of his games at the NTDP. It's a nice accolade, but it's not anything crazy.

NTDP associate coach Nick Fohr oversees the defensemen, and in his nine seasons with the program has worked with several players currently competing in the NHL, including Seth Jones (Columbus Blue Jackets), Zach Werenski (Blue Jackets), Noah Hanifin (Calgary Flames) and Charlie McAvoy (Boston Bruins). He believes Sanderson ranks among that elite group.


"Sandy is right in that mix of the top three guys I've coached here, if not the top guy," Fohr said. "That's still to be determined based on how he develops and where he goes, but this is something we've been talking about since last year. Somebody asked me last season where he'd fit, and I said he's already in my top five and that was as an under-17 player."

2020 Draft: Sanderson could rank among best-ever defensemen at NTDP

 

[Golden_Jet]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was comparing Guhle and Sanderson in AMHL. Prior to the Bantam draft, Guhle LED his U15 team in scoring .

LMAO, now we’re comparing their peewee years.

 

[c_mak]

SIGN SANDERSON!!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

NTDP associate coach Nick Fohr oversees the defensemen, and in his nine seasons with the program has worked with several players currently competing in the NHL, including Seth Jones (Columbus Blue Jackets), Zach Werenski (Blue Jackets), Noah Hanifin (Calgary Flames) and Charlie McAvoy (Boston Bruins). He believes Sanderson ranks among that elite group.


"Sandy is right in that mix of the top three guys I've coached here, if not the top guy," Fohr said. "That's still to be determined based on how he develops and where he goes, but this is something we've been talking about since last year. Somebody asked me last season where he'd fit, and I said he's already in my top five and that was as an under-17 player."

2020 Draft: Sanderson could rank among best-ever defensemen at NTDP

Then that’s not Appert. The wording of the post wasn’t specific, but yes, Fohr has been there for a long time as an assistant.

 

[Dan Patrick]

LMAO, now we’re comparing their peewee years.

That's the only way he can compare the two players, Guhle was better before he was 16 so he must be better now and Guhle scored 2 goals in the WJC and Sanderson scored 0. Ocassionaly he'll make inflamatory player comparisons or misrepresent information to try to get more people to respond. He just keeps circling back to the same arguement though because he's a troll. Just accept that you are trying to engage in a rational discussion with a child and move on with your life.

 

[Burke6687]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I was comparing Guhle and Sanderson in AMHL. Prior to the Bantam draft, Guhle LED his U15 team in scoring with 40 points in 30 games. Same season, same level, little Jake was 8th on his team in scoring with 18 points in 30 odd games. Guhle was team captain, top defenseman and MVP. Sanderson was none of those things. The following year Guhle moved up to U18, dominated again, while Sanderson remained at U15 level before heading down to the US U17 team. Kaiden was clearly the superior talent at that point. The only times they played the same competition after that was at the U17 and U20 tournaments. Guhle put up better stats in both of those situations.

Well thank god that they stopped playing hockey at the AMHL level so we could judge them solely on those games. Had they kept playing and developing as players it would possibly change how scouts viewed them and drafted them. Using close to 5 year old stats totally supports your argument and proves that Guhle is the better player and possibly the best player in the whole draft. You should probably go drag up John McFarlands thread and get to arguing how he is the best player based on his time and stats with Toronto Jr. Canadians.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Double post edit