Player Discussion: Kristian Vesalainen [Update: Signed ELC]

[KingBogo]

He got a new number, #93 same as in Liiga

KV gets his big boy #. Nice to see him stick.

 

[surixon]

Not saying I quite like giving him a spot when he doesn't look ready. I hope they aren't rushing the kid.

 

[KingBogo]

Not saying I quite like giving him a spot when he doesn't look ready. I hope they aren't rushing the kid.

I think he will get his 9 games to see if he can stick. I've said a few times but I think the Jets are treating him like a CHL player that still has junior eligibility that can't be sent to the AHL, as they fully expect him to return to Europe over an assignment to the Moose.

 

[Whileee]

Not saying I quite like giving him a spot when he doesn't look ready. I hope they aren't rushing the kid.

What part of his game didn't look ready to you?

 

[surixon]

What part of his game didn't look ready to you?

He was behind the play at times, wasn't winning enough races or battles nor was he really creating much in the way of offense. He had a hard time getting into position to use his shot and also had difficulty getting it off. His defensive game was solid and he made some nice plays in his own end but I would say that he still needs seasoning.

If he didn't have that out clause I would say he wouldn't be starting with the team. I would also say the org is not in a position to waste a year of his ELC trying to develop him in the NHL. I would rather have Petan or Dano in his role this year.

 

[Whileee]

He was behind the play at times, wasn't winning enough races or battles nor was he really creating much in the way of offense. He had a hard time getting into position to use his shot and also had difficulty getting it off. His defensive game was solid and he made some nice plays in his own end but I would say that he still needs seasoning.

If he didn't have that out clause I would say he wouldn't be starting with the team. I would also say the org is not in a position to waste a year of his ELC trying to develop him in the NHL. I would rather have Petan or Dano in his role this year.

I actually thought he won a number of races and did very well in board battles. I didn't see him behind the play much. He didn't get as many offensive chances as he would have liked, but I think he showed a lot of moxy with the puck.

 

[Mud Turtle]

The AHL is likely the best place for him to develop his game. It’s too bad he doesn’t see that.
To me, the team that drafts you tells you where the best place to play is, not the other way around.
Tail wagging the dog.

 

[Whileee]

The AHL is likely the best place for him to develop his game. It’s too bad he doesn’t see that.
To me, the team that drafts you tells you where the best place to play is, not the other way around.
Tail wagging the dog.

There is no way Maurice would keep him on the team because he doesn't want to be demoted. I think we need to take Maurice's decision at face value. He obviously thinks he's the 12th best forward coming out of camp and has earned his place in the lineup.

I'm a bit puzzled that after years of Maurice getting slagged for not giving young players opportunities, now the critique is that he's gifting a spot to a young rookie. Like every coach, he wants to win, especially when he has the pressure of expectations. He thinks that KV will help his team win. It's as simple as that, from his perspective.

 

[Mud Turtle]

There is no way Maurice would keep him on the team because he doesn't want to be demoted. I think we need to take Maurice's decision at face value. He obviously thinks he's the 12th best forward coming out of camp and has earned his place in the lineup.

I'm a bit puzzled that after years of Maurice getting slagged for not giving young players opportunities, now the critique is that he's gifting a spot to a young rookie. Like every coach, he wants to win, especially when he has the pressure of expectations. He thinks that KV will help his team win. It's as simple as that, from his perspective.

There’s very little that I ever disagree with you on Whileee - especially regarding the young players. But in this case I just didn’t see it in pre-season with KV. He was fine but I thought Lemieux had a better camp. I just think he needs one year in the A with a little less pressure to get used to the NA game a bit more.

 

[JetsFan815]

Not saying I quite like giving him a spot when he doesn't look ready. I hope they aren't rushing the kid.

I am with you. I have always been an advocate of giving the shot to young players but unless he is blowing the doors off in practice, I didn't see enough to take that lineup spot away from Dano and even Lemieux for that matter. Kyle Connor who got sent down the last 2 seasons had much more impressive camps.

I would be absolutely livid if I was Dano and I got banished to the Press Box to start the season again after patiently waiting for his turn and having a good camp.

 

[Whileee]

There’s very little that I ever disagree with you on Whileee - especially regarding the young players. But in this case I just didn’t see it in pre-season with KV. He was fine but I thought Lemieux had a better camp. I just think he needs one year in the A with a little less pressure to get used to the NA game a bit more.

I'm not disputing your assessment. I'm just saying that I highly doubt that Maurice is being pressured to keep him in the lineup. In fact, it would be better for the Jets if his ELC slid this season. Maurice thinks he's been better than other bubble forwards, and that's why he's in the lineup for game 1.

 

[Whileee]

I am with you. I have always been an advocate of giving the shot to young players but unless he is blowing the doors off in practice, I didn't see enough to take that lineup spot away from Dano and even Lemieux for that matter. Kyle Connor who got sent down the last 2 seasons had much more impressive camps.

I would be absolutely livid if I was Dano and I got banished to the Press Box to start the season again after patiently waiting for his turn and having a good camp.

Maurice thinks KV will contribute more to wins at this point. He might be wrong, but it would be a bad idea if he played Dano or Lemieux over him just because they've been around longer and waiting longer. Clearly your assessment of his preseason isn't shared by Maurice and the coaching staff. He might well be wrong, and will end up demoting him. But I don't think Dano or Lemieux showed more than in him in the preseason games.

 

[Mud Turtle]

I'm not disputing your assessment. I'm just saying that I highly doubt that Maurice is being pressured to keep him in the lineup. In fact, it would be better for the Jets if his ELC slid this season. Maurice thinks he's been better than other bubble forwards, and that's why he's in the lineup for game 1.

That would make sense.
I also may be just a little paranoid after the Trouba issues of the past couple years and am looking for any signs of questionable character in players I’m not as familiar with.
I just don’t like KV’s escape clause and don’t like that he pushed for one. I’ll admit that it may have tainted my view of him.

 

[JetsFan815]

Maurice thinks KV will contribute more to wins at this point. He might be wrong, but it would be a bad idea if he played Dano or Lemieux over him just because they've been around longer and waiting longer. Clearly your assessment of his preseason isn't shared by Maurice and the coaching staff. He might well be wrong, and will end up demoting him. But I don't think Dano or Lemieux showed more than in him in the preseason games.

Dano almost certainly showed better than KV, esp considering his usage. Dano played most of his preseason with AHL'rs like Griffith, Lemieux and one game with a guy starting in the ECHL. Considering those circumstances his, performance was good and worthy of clinching a regular season spot.

Considering the open spot is on the line with Roslo and Ehlers, I don't even know if that's the best situation to put a rookie in and if that's putting the rookie in a position to succeed. I am sure Maurice will make changes to the lineup, I don't have high hopes of 4th line staying together beyond the end of 2nd period of game 2.

 

[10Ducky10]

He's still a kid, no need to rush him.

I think Chevy has a huge part in which player(s) make the team or not...especially at the beginning of the season.
Maybe Chevy wants to give him a taste of the NHL for 8 or so games and if he hasn't played well enough, send him to the Moose and tell him if he improves where they ask him to, he will get called up. If he wants to go to Europe, someone else gets called up and makes NHL money.
I don't know why he would not want to report to the Moose because in the long run, it will probably be the best thing, long term, for his career.

 

[bumblebeeman]

A lot of posters think it would be better for him to be in the AHL than Europe, but I don't really feel that way. Getting to go back and be a top player in his home country would be great for him I think. If he were a CHL player the AHL wouldn't even be an option, and lots of guys that play in the CHL at his age (against way weaker competition then in Europe) turn out great.

 

[Ippenator]

Once again I have to say that I will be extremely surprised if he chooses to stay in the AHL if he doesn’t get more than 9 NHL games. There’s the clearly better money through the KHL route, and definitely people here are underestimating the men’s international team’s value in the equation. He will have a damn good chance to play in the WHC, if he has a good season in Europe. Especially now that Finland has the men’s and junior’s gold medal coach Jukka Jalonen as the head coach. Jalonen is well known for giving very talented young players a good role in the national team, and he is also very good with handling young players. The appeal to play especially now for the Finnish national team is going to be huge.

On the other hand, honestly the AHL has a very bad reputation with Finnish players. The only Finnish player to do really well in the NHL after playing a full season or more of them in the AHL, has been Mikko Rantanen. There are mostly horrible examples of getting buried in the AHL forever like Teemu Pulkkinen. Not saying though that he necessarily should have even been an NHL player, but it anyway shows that even when you do extremely well in the AHL, you might not get jackcrap of a shot of playing in the NHL (look at Niku for example). I think a lot of Finnish players have realized this, and the more they have the ambition to be a really good NHL player, they will not see usually the AHL as the best option for their development, even how much North American fans might believe that it would be. This is something that a lot of people here don’t seem to get at all.

I do understand that many North American fans are very much used to the AHL route being the only good way to develop a player for the NHL, but I think these fans are lacking the understanding of how Finnish players are more likely to see it.

 

[ffh]

Once again I have to say that I will be extremely surprised if he chooses to stay in the AHL if he doesn’t get more than 9 NHL games. There’s the clearly better money through the KHL route, and definitely people here are underestimating the men’s international team’s value in the equation. He will have a damn good chance to play in the WHC, if he has a good season in Europe. Especially now that Finland has the men’s and junior’s gold medal coach Jukka Jalonen as the head coach. Jalonen is well known for giving very talented young players a good role in the national team, and he is also very good with handling young players. The appeal to play especially now for the Finnish national team is going to be huge.

On the other hand, honestly the AHL has a very bad reputation with Finnish players. The only Finnish player to do really well in the NHL after playing a full season in the AHL has been Mikko Rantanen. There are mostly horrible examples of getting buried in the AHL forever like Teemu Pulkkinen. Not saying though that he necessarily should have even been an NHL player, but it anyway shows that even when you do extremely well in the AHL, you might not get jackcrap of a shot of playing in the NHL (look at Niku for example). I think a lot of Finnish players have realized this, and the more they have the ambition to be a really good NHL player, they will not see usually the AHL as the best option for their development, even how much North American fans might believe that it would be. This is something that a lot of people here don’t seem to get at all.

I do understand that many North American fans are very much used to the AHL route being the only good way to develop a player for the NHL, but I think these fans are lacking the understanding of how Finnish players are more likely to see it.

he said he wanted to play in north America this year. not making the jets was a real possibility. so he sounds like he is willing to play in the ahl. niku had the same prevision in his contract and chose to play in the ahl. think he plays in nhl this year but will go to ahl if he has to.

 

[Lempo]

That would make sense.
I also may be just a little paranoid after the Trouba issues of the past couple years and am looking for any signs of questionable character in players I’m not as familiar with.
I just don’t like KV’s escape clause and don’t like that he pushed for one. I’ll admit that it may have tainted my view of him.

Merely a negotiation tactics and a guarantee to get Jets agree to burn the 1st year that he gets paid $70k + $92.5k (+ what he makes in the NHL games)* playing in AHL which is considerably less that he would make in KHL. He won't go to Europe, he won't slide.

Obviously one is still free to disagree on such gall from a prospect, but he also is free to not sign to play in AHL for throttled money when there's other league elsewhere willing to pay him considerably more, and he's the one that gets to make the call here.

* I still suspect that CapFriendly don't have accurate information on his 1st year salary. The lenghty negotiations were reported to hang on the "bonuses", but the Schedule A bonus of $925k that he reportedly has wouldn't have been a problem for the Jets even for all three years. A Games Played bonus for 10+ games (to put his salary more close to KHL) would've been more to swallow for the team, especially as playing him enough for him to get it also means that his 1st ELC year will burn.

 

[GNP]

After watching most of the preseason games, I thought Vesa was OK, and getting better, but that's about it. He certainly isn't an impact player, and showed no signs of dominating play.

I think that Lemieux should get the job, as he has the speed, and decent scoring ability, and is very physical. He'd be great with Roslo and Ehlers. Next you'd have to go with Dano, and Vesa would be my 3rd choice, as he needs time, and maturing.

I think the "only" reason the Jets are giving him a spot, is they don't want him going back to Europe, and would rather have him groomed in the North American style game--AHL-Moose.

In the end--it won't really matter, he either has the talent, or he doesn't, and even if he goes back to Europe, he'll come back an improved player. There are smart Hockey people in Finland as well. Let him go if he wants to, and we'll go with Lemieux, Dano or Petan.

 

[Lempo]

Once again I have to say that I will be extremely surprised if he chooses to stay in the AHL if he doesn’t get more than 9 NHL games. There’s the clearly better money through the KHL route

There's workarounds on that, and starting to burn ELC now instead of Sliding a year brings the RFA money to you sooner.

 

[Lempo]

he said he wanted to play in north America this year. not making the jets was a real possibility. so he sounds like he is willing to play in the ahl. niku had the same prevision in his contract and chose to play in the ahl. think he plays in nhl this year but will go to ahl if he has to.

We don't know if Niku has it for all three years. It may be that he wanted it in case it looked on year three that he won't be making it to NHL at all and didn't feel like bussing around in AHL for $70k (+ something) at that point anymore when teams in Europe would pay him more.

 

[Ippenator]

he said he wanted to play in north America this year. not making the jets was a real possibility. so he sounds like he is willing to play in the ahl. niku had the same prevision in his contract and chose to play in the ahl. think he plays in nhl this year but will go to ahl if he has to.

He said he wanted to TRY playing North American hockey. If he plays 9 games and goes to Europe, he has done what he said.

 

[Halberdier]

I actually thought he won a number of races and did very well in board battles. I didn't see him behind the play much. He didn't get as many offensive chances as he would have liked, but I think he showed a lot of moxy with the puck.

His last pre-season game was good, but playing with Scheif and Wheeler surely looked really bad for him.

So far a bit of mixed feelings with Vesalainen. I would give him a fair tryout though, as you can't lose much by doing that. They should see with 9 games how to proceed with him.

 

[Tommigun]

I actually thought he won a number of races and did very well in board battles. I didn't see him behind the play much. He didn't get as many offensive chances as he would have liked, but I think he showed a lot of moxy with the puck.

Yeah, my biggest problem was that he didn’t get to the scoring areas and didn’t really generate any offense. His overall play looked really solid though. He looked like a forward version of Enström ;P

But then again, if it was mostly about adjusting to the smaller rink he’ll find his way in his 9 games up.

Wouldn’t have minded seeing Dano in his spot though, but it can still happen this year.