Prospect Info: Kole Lind, Pt. II | Is not being taken, etcetera

[VanJack]

Thank God for some of the second-year players in Utica like MacEwan and Jasek who've shown considerable progression. I suppose that offers some hope for guys like Lind and Gadjovich, who unless they go on a tear have to be listed as having somewhat disappointing first pro seasons.

At the very least they'll need at least another year in Utica and maybe longer. Not the progression you're looking for from two guys drafted in the second round.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Thank God for some of the second-year players in Utica like MacEwan and Jasek who've shown considerable progression. I suppose that offers some hope for guys like Lind and Gadjovich, who unless they go on a tear have to be listed as having somewhat disappointing first pro seasons.

At the very least they'll need at least another year in Utica and maybe longer. Not the progression you're looking for from two guys drafted in the second round.

With how little ice time Palmu / Gadjovich / Lind got in the AHL just shows how much our farm system has to learn from teams like the Marlies.

They integrate youth in to the system consistently and provide a launching pad for Torontos kids.

 

[MS]

With how little ice time Palmu / Gadjovich / Lind got in the AHL just shows how much our farm system has to learn from teams like the Marlies.

They integrate youth in to the system consistently and provide a launching pad for Torontos kids.

Palmu/Gadjovich/Lind have been brutal and completely incapable of playing more than they have.

Dahlen/Jasek/Juolevi have all played lots as rookies. So did Brisebois and MacEwen last year.

Some guys are so bad that playing them higher up the lineup simply isn’t an option. These guys all should be in the ECHL on merit.

 

[bandwagonesque]

With how little ice time Palmu / Gadjovich / Lind got in the AHL just shows how much our farm system has to learn from teams like the Marlies.

They integrate youth in to the system consistently and provide a launching pad for Torontos kids.

Utica posters have been saying for months that these guys haven't been close to playable.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

So I was overhyped on Lind last year big deal i learned my lesson kinda the brutal way this year. Sorry for those offended, looking back it was an insane opinion to have, I guess there was a LOT more I need to know about prospects. Which cant be overemphasized enough

And I'm very sorry for bringing that up my friend. I normally wouldn't do something like that because lord knows we all get calls wrong here. I mean, literally everyone does. I guess someone was badgering me to prove a point and I threw you under the bus but you were certainly not the only one making this claim, just one of the most vocal. I shouldn't have done that and I apologize for doing it.

 

[M2Beezy]

And I'm very sorry for bringing that up my friend. I normally wouldn't do something like that because lord knows we all get calls wrong here. I mean, literally everyone does. I guess someone was badgering me to prove a point and I threw you under the bus but you were certainly not the only one making this claim, just one of the most vocal. I shouldn't have done that and I apologize for doing it.

Naahhh is cool, i will learn from it Mega Man

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Naahhh is cool, i will learn from it Mega Man

We're never to old to learn a lesson my friend. Like don't throw a pal under the bus just to prove a point or because it's convenient to do so; stick to your principles. I obviously should have told him to hunt for quotes himself. Again, I'm sorry brotha, it's an embarrassing moment for me here...

 

[nuxnuxnux]

I guess we know why nobody was taking kole lind

 

[Canucks1096]

Finally the Lind vs Glass discussion is over.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Palmu/Gadjovich/Lind have been brutal and completely incapable of playing more than they have.

Dahlen/Jasek/Juolevi have all played lots as rookies. So did Brisebois and MacEwen last year.

Some guys are so bad that playing them higher up the lineup simply isn’t an option. These guys all should be in the ECHL on merit.

Utica posters have been saying for months that these guys haven't been close to playable.

But how much can you expect Palmu to do with his 8min / game for 10 games. They need ice time to get used to the higher level of competition.

Gaudette was playing under 10 min / game there too... Now he is taking regular NHL shifts and not looking out of place. Is there something more wrong in Utica than just our kids not being ready?

I get it that they want to win games but it has to be a balance between developing our kids and winning games. I know there is a line where playing wont do their development any good either if they are just getting shelled and their confidence is shredded.

We have 3 of our top 10 prospects not playing hockey this year in Gadjovich, Lind and Palmu (Palmu getting a chance, going back to Liiga now)


(edit. Im not sure I even disagree with you guys. I just feel like our prospects are being miss-managed when they dont play at all.)

 

[bandwagonesque]

But how much can you expect Palmu to do with his 8min / game for 10 games. They need ice time to get used to the higher level of competition.

Gaudette was playing under 10 min / game there too... Now he is taking regular NHL shifts and not looking out of place. Is there something more wrong in Utica than just our kids not being ready?

I get it that they want to win games but it has to be a balance between developing our kids and winning games. I know there is a line where playing wont do their development any good either if they are just getting shelled and their confidence is shredded.

We have 3 of our top 10 prospects not playing hockey this year in Gadjovich, Lind and Palmu (Palmu getting a chance, going back to Liiga now)


(edit. Im not sure I even disagree with you guys. I just feel like our prospects are being miss-managed when they dont play at all.)

Fair points. Some of the Utica posters seem almost absurdly negative about Canucks prospects as well. I don't watch the games.

 

[passive voice]

[a ghostly howl carried on the winds] stillllllllllllllllll duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub eliiiiiiiigibleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Am I correct in saying that most rookies start in the AHL in their draft +3 seasons or later?

Lind and Gadjovich are late birthdays so they are basically only 1 season removed from being drafted when they step in to the AHL which means 1 less year of development than most other AHL rookies. That might have an effect, looking at some previous prospects Michael Grabner also had a late birthday and had a lackluster point total in his D+2 AHL debut season which would've warranted most people to write him off according to history but he's since carved out a long NHL career. I think it's a good idea to give Lind and Gadj a mulligan for this year, I won't even pay attention to their development until halfway thru next season for this reason.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

But how much can you expect Palmu to do with his 8min / game for 10 games. They need ice time to get used to the higher level of competition.

Gaudette was playing under 10 min / game there too... Now he is taking regular NHL shifts and not looking out of place. Is there something more wrong in Utica than just our kids not being ready?

I get it that they want to win games but it has to be a balance between developing our kids and winning games. I know there is a line where playing wont do their development any good either if they are just getting shelled and their confidence is shredded.

We have 3 of our top 10 prospects not playing hockey this year in Gadjovich, Lind and Palmu (Palmu getting a chance, going back to Liiga now)


(edit. Im not sure I even disagree with you guys. I just feel like our prospects are being miss-managed when they dont play at all.)

Actually Lind and Gadjovich are playing regular shifts. Cull is even force feeding Lind with remedial shifts on scoring lines but he just isn't taking advantage of the opportunity.The tempo of the game down there is too fast for him and he seems overwhelmed by it.

Three rookies who have been doing quite well are Jasek, Dahlen and Juolevi but the latter two are currently out of the lineup unfortunately. It just happens that they aren't the players that folks here seem to favor. I tried to tell people that Jasek's 3-4-7 scoring stats in 6 gp compared to Lind's 0-1-1 in 6 gp last spring was meaningful when we were voting in the prospect rankings here last summer but it fell on deaf ears.

Oh well, as noted Vancouver hockey philosopher was fond of saying 'it is what it is.'

 

[timw33]

[a ghostly howl carried on the winds] stillllllllllllllllll duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub eliiiiiiiigibleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

He should 100% be sent back to the WHL.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

He should 100% be sent back to the WHL.

He and Gadjovich would both have been much better served by an overage year in junior this year but their draft status obviously blocked that path for them. The ECHL beckons...

 

[Canucks1096]

Am I correct in saying that most rookies start in the AHL in their draft +3 seasons or later?

Lind and Gadjovich are late birthdays so they are basically only 1 season removed from being drafted when they step in to the AHL which means 1 less year of development than most other AHL rookies. That might have an effect, looking at some previous prospects Michael Grabner also had a late birthday and had a lackluster point total in his D+2 AHL debut season which would've warranted most people to write him off according to history but he's since carved out a long NHL career. I think it's a good idea to give Lind and Gadj a mulligan for this year, I won't even pay attention to their development until halfway thru next season for this reason.

It's not really 1 year less of development. When a player has a late birthday. A lot of of times they completed an extra year in the chl already. When Gadjovich was drafted he completed 3 seasons in the chl already and 1 season after he got drafted. So 4 in total. Lind played parts of 4 season in the chl as well but only had a few games in his first year

So players that do not have a late birthday. They completed 2 chl season before they get drafted and 2 after they get drafted. So it's still 4 seasons in the chl before they go to ahl

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

It's not really 1 year less of development. When a player has a late birthday. A lot of of times they completed an extra year in the chl already. When Gadjovich was drafted he completed 3 seasons in the chl already and 1 season after he got drafted. So 4 in total. Lind played parts of 4 season in the chl as well but only had a few games in his first year

So players that do not have a late birthday. They completed 2 chl season before they get drafted and 2 after they get drafted. So it's still 4 seasons in the chl before they go to ahl

Yeah absolutely. It's really coming up through minor hockey that they are at an age and maturity disadvantage but if they get through it they are more or less on even ground by the time they reach draft age.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

It's not really 1 year less of development. When a player has a late birthday. A lot of of times they completed an extra year in the chl already. When Gadjovich was drafted he completed 3 seasons in the chl already and 1 season after he got drafted. So 4 in total. Lind played parts of 4 season in the chl as well but only had a few games in his first year

So players that do not have a late birthday. They completed 2 chl season before they get drafted and 2 after they get drafted. So it's still 4 seasons in the chl before they go to ahl

True but I think you're making an assumption here that pre-draft and post-draft development seasons are equal. After a player gets drafted, unless they're super elite, I feel like their development takes on another level just by being a part of an NHL training camp, seeing how pros and potentially even HHOF NHLers train, receiving NHL coaching and nutritional advice, and even playing in NHL preseason games where they can get a feel for the speed of the game I think is huge for a player's development. Therefore I think there's an advantage for a player who has gotten, let's say, 2 seasons of only CHL development prior to being drafted and 2 seasons of NHL guided development after vs. a player like Lind and Gadjovich who had 3 seasons of CHL development prior to being drafted and only 1 season of NHL guided development before being thrown into the fire of the pro game in the AHL which is a very hard league.

 

[Canucks1096]

I was never really that high on Lind or Gadjovich. I remember last year I said if Lind makes it to the nhl. He will have similar production to Higgins. A middle 6 wingers. Gadjovich will be no more than a 4th liner. Hopefully I am wrong.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I was never really that high on Lind or Gadjovich. I remember last year I said if Lind makes it to the nhl. He will have similar production to Higgins. A middle 6 wingers. Gadjovich will be no more than a 4th liner. Hopefully I am wrong.

They were still 2nd round picks that projected to have a decent (for a 2nd rounder) chance at an NHL career.

 

[Cupless44]

Palmu/Gadjovich/Lind have been brutal and completely incapable of playing more than they have.

Dahlen/Jasek/Juolevi have all played lots as rookies. So did Brisebois and MacEwen last year.

Some guys are so bad that playing them higher up the lineup simply isn’t an option. These guys all should be in the ECHL on merit.

What was Palmu supposed to accomplish with 8 minutes on the 4th line in the games he actually got in? He has 2 pts in hus first 2 games playing 18 minutes in Finland.

They actually did the same with MacEwen last year. Only when they had so many injuries they had no options did he get any ice time and opportunity.

Not disagreeing some prospects have been very disappointing but I think this management's approach being questioned is legitimate

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

I will hold out until next year to see how Lind develops before I give up in him. It’s a huge jump. Just hoping he plays well down the back end of the schedule and shows better next year.

Gadjovich, I’m similarly waiting, but less optimistic. Just because his skating is such an anchor, but who knows?

After years and years of reading the comets thread, I knew better than to expect these kids to come in and play well. The CHL is the children’s hockey league, the AHL is the adults hockey league.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I haven't completed watching the game today yet, was waylaid after the first period. But in the first period at least, Lind was getting shifts on the scoring line again with Kero and Boucher. I don't know how this rumor got floating around about Lind not getting enough opportunity but it's not true. Actually it's quite the opposite; he is being force fed minutes up the lineup that he really doesn't deserve on merit. That's how it works with AHL development teams and Utica is no different. Trent Cull clearly understands this.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

What was Palmu supposed to accomplish with 8 minutes on the 4th line in the games he actually got in? He has 2 pts in hus first 2 games playing 18 minutes in Finland.

They actually did the same with MacEwen last year. Only when they had so many injuries they had no options did he get any ice time and opportunity.

Not disagreeing some prospects have been very disappointing but I think this management's approach being questioned is legitimate

Palmu was out of his element with the Comets. Only on the pp passing the puck around the perimeter did he have any success at all. Everything else was so far beyond his grasp he was never going to get there. He was such a long shot anyway, I really don't get the surprise/disappointment here. This result should have come as no surprise.