KHL Season 20/21

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
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I mean NT or no NT, how is it possible, at all? There are basically 2 possibilities and both are quite ugly:

1) the KHL rulebook doesn't apply to SKA
2) the rulebook was changed without any announcement and SKA were the first to manage to act on it. Very suspiciously quickly.
It is a bit sad that a poster with your knowledge on the KHL is able to come with just these two explanations.

I have already asked but I repeat myself. Does anybody of us have unlimited access to CIB?

If I know, the KHL has four regular meetings of the KHL Board of Directors. The first happens in summer, then early September. Both meetings are dedicated to the changes in the by-laws or rulebook is your vocabulary while September´s also approves the financial review of the past year. Another meeting is usually scheduled in December (Channel One Cup break). And another regular meeting is scheduled at the end of a season when they approve a list of teams for the upcoming season.

I just remind you that the KHL is a huge business corporation. They do not change rules as anybody wishes. There is a strict process. And a long process. Just to illustrate it, the salary cap mechanism was discussed multiple times, I would say more than a year. Another important issue is a loan market, they have been discussing is over a year, maybe more. The final decision has not been approved yet. That is just an example of how long does it take to change anything in the KHL.
 

SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
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I just remind you that the KHL is a huge business corporation. They do not change rules as anybody wishes. There is a strict process. And a long process. Just to illustrate it, the salary cap mechanism was discussed multiple times, I would say more than a year. Another important issue is a loan market, they have been discussing is over a year, maybe more. The final decision has not been approved yet. That is just an example of how long does it take to change anything in the KHL.
Exactly. So you don't find it odd that SKA has 7 imports all of the sudden then none of the other teams do? It should have been a long decision process to change the import rule yet it seems it happened overnight.

Furthermore, even though SKA announced the trade on their official website there is still no news about it on the KHL website nor is there an explanation of how is this above the board.

It seems like nobody knows the answer so nobody is even asking the question.
 
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vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,413
1,272
Exactly. So you don't find it odd that SKA has 7 imports all of the sudden then none of the other teams do? It should have been a long decision process to change the import rule yet it seems it happened overnight.

Furthermore, even though SKA announced the trade on their official website there is still no news about it on the KHL website nor is there an explanation of how is this above the board.

It seems like nobody knows the answer so nobody is even asking the question.
It is so absurd it does not even deserve a reply. But I will try. You say the KHL changed the import rule during this season, right? If you say it, do you believe all media would be silent as they are?

There is official news about Stromwall´s trade on the KHL website.

But that is not a point. You came with two explanations portraying the KHL exclusively in a negative way. As a league where core rules can be re-written overnight, without any discussion. So, you are not able to come with an explanation when this trade would be legal as it was. Thats the point.

I know how media/fans like to rant over Rotenberg, Esmatovich, Krylov, Morozov, Chernyshenko ... unfortunately these people are not able to listen to them.

Just an example. Chernyshenko had talked about the salary cap at 900 since when? 2016-2018? But nobody listened to him and suddenly, all were surprised when it was officially approved.

Chernyshenko & Morozov have said more than once that the league will not be changed overnight when the cap is applied. It will take a few seasons. And it is exactly what is happening. But, again, nobody listened to them, so now everybody is surprised.

And even if we hear about the salary cap rules, nobody has ever tried to understand why the rules are such as they are and not different. Because nobody looks at the league in five to ten years from now.
 

SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
11,375
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It is so absurd it does not even deserve a reply. But I will try. You say the KHL changed the import rule during this season, right? If you say it, do you believe all media would be silent as they are?
If that rule was actually changed some time ago why was the media silent then? It's common knowledge since forever KHL teams can have 6 imports. There haven't been any reports the rule was changed. It wasn't a topic of discussion in media or any kind of public arena. None of the other teams ever told they are considering a 7th import or have it. It was never even stated as an option, anywhere.

Instead of these paragraphs of nothingness can you provide me any evidence the import rule was indeed changed some time ago? If you don't like my "negative explanations" can you provide any other explanation based on some kind of actual facts or information? Because all you do now is talk about the cap which is absolutely irrelevant and furthermore, you state that I'm wrong but provide no alternative explanation of any kind.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'd love to know. But all your "arguments" are conjecture which could be used against you just the same.

Also, what does cap have to do with anything? You wrote 3 paragraphs about the topic which isn't remotely relevant to the issue at hand.
 
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vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,413
1,272
If that rule was actually changed some time ago why was the media silent then? It's common knowledge since forever KHL teams can have 6 imports. There haven't been any reports the rule was changed. It wasn't a topic of discussion in media or any kind of public arena. None of the other teams ever told they are considering a 7th import or have it. It was never even stated as an option, anywhere.

Instead of these paragraphs of nothingness can you provide me any evidence the import rule was indeed changed some time ago? If you don't like my "negative explanations" can you provide any other explanation based on some kind of actual facts or information? Because all you do now is talk about the cap which is absolutely irrelevant and furthermore, you state that I'm wrong but provide no alternative explanation of any kind.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'd love to know. But all your "arguments" are conjecture which could be used against you just the same.

Also, what does cap have to do with anything? You wrote 3 paragraphs about the topic which isn't remotely relevant to the issue at hand.
I used it as an example because people like to rant on some hockey officials without knowing facts or at least listening. So, I recommend to study the topic instead of writing the feelings.

The common knowledge is that Russian clubs can skate a maximum of five imports. Russian clubs can have just one foreign goalie. It is not limited how many imports a Russian team can list on season´s roster. Of course, it is not practical to have more imports than can play a game because some needs to sit in press-box and you need to pay them. But if your team is fine with it, and players are not rioting, you can have as many imports as you wish. Plus Kazakh & Belarussian citizens (passport) are not imports anymore, but it is not SKA case.

So, the rule on imports was amended last time on 22.11.2018, but it was just a formal modification. I will quote (article 41, 2.3 & 2.4 of Sport Reglement)

before 2018
2.3. В заявке команды на отдельно взятый Матч Чемпионата не может быть более пяти Хоккеистов-иностранцев;
2.4. В заявке команды на отдельно взятый Матч Чемпионата не может быть более одного вратаря-иностранца;

on 22.Nov 2018
2.3. В заявке команды на отдельно взятый Матч Чемпионата не может быть более пяти Хоккеистов в статусе «Иностранный Игрок»
2.4. В заявке команды на отдельно взятый Матч Чемпионата не может быть более одного вратаря в статусе «Иностранный Игрок»

As you can see the rules are the same, just the legal language changed.

I do not have access to CIB. But even the media came with other explanations. Simply the player re-signed a deal with a lower salary because SKA/CSKA would not be able to list these players on their roster, would be over the ceiling. Because I do not have access to CIB, I do not know. But my point is that there is another explanation to these you wrote. And they are more believable than yours.

And since we live in COVID times, and we know the player´s salary is not counted towards the cap in time of his recovering, the teams have more options with cap rules. But that is just my two cents.
 
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tsamolotoff

Registered User
May 7, 2017
59
12
Moscow
Are you sure there's actually something wrong with the situation? I don't know the particulars, but some imports (like our Nigel Dawes) actually have a EEC passport which makes them not count towards the limit (which was not true a few years ago when players like the former Dinamo Minsk captain Vladimir Denisov had to be dropped from the roster because Tretyak suddenly decided that our fellow belorusians are now legit imports).

Also, it was always 'legal' and permissible to have more signed players than the limit, it's just you cant field more than 5 in one game. It's just considered not quite fair - Ak Bars got quite a lot of flak in the press when we signed Roman Kukumberg and Наnnes Hyvönen for the playoffs back in the second season of the KHL, rotating them on per-game basis along with the regular four of Kapanen, Immonen, Vehanen and Pesonen.
 
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vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,413
1,272
Are you sure there's actually something wrong with the situation? I don't know the particulars, but some imports (like our Nigel Dawes) actually have a EEC passport which makes them not count towards the limit (which was not true a few years ago when players like the former Dinamo Minsk captain Vladimir Denisov had to be dropped from the roster because Tretyak suddenly decided that our fellow belorusians are now legit imports).
Yes, Belarussians made a noise in media a year or more ago. And, it was not the KHL who decided not to count them (& Kazakhs) as imports. It was decided by Eurasian Economic Union organs & then the Russian Ministry of Sport had to respect that.

Also, it was always 'legal' and permissible to have more signed players than the limit, it's just you cant field more than 5 in one game. It's just considered not quite fair - Ak Bars got quite a lot of flak in the press when we signed Roman Kukumberg and Наnnes Hyvönen for the playoffs back in the second season of the KHL, rotating them on per-game basis along with the regular four of Kapanen, Immonen, Vehanen and Pesonen.
Yeah, I say the same, you can not field more than five imports in a game. But you can have more imports on season´s roster if you are ok with it.
 

tsamolotoff

Registered User
May 7, 2017
59
12
Moscow
And, it was not the KHL who decided not to count them (& Kazakhs) as imports. It was decided by Eurasian Economic Union organs & then the Russian Ministry of Sport had to respect that.
Yeah, that's what I said by saying "Tretyak decided". It was all on him (since he's the guy who Putin listens to), but formally it was the MoS, of course.
Yeah, I say the same, you can not field more than five imports in a game. But you can have more imports on season´s roster if you are ok with it.
I guess I should have addressed my post to SoundAndFury, I meant him.
 

SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
11,375
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That Sochi roster though.. Not as bad as Kunlun's B team at the start of the season but pretty damn close...

Also Avto on the verge of 7th loss in a row. The ice under Peters has to be melting fast. Couldn't be happening to a nicer guy as well :sarcasm:
 
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aonb

Registered User
Oct 26, 2013
1,693
671
That Sochi roster though.. Not as bad as Kunlun's B team at the start of the season but pretty damn close...

Also Avto on the verge of 7th loss in a row. The ice under Peters has to be melting fast. Couldn't be happening to a nicer guy as well :sarcasm:

Yeah, without Stromwall it's just awful. I feel bad for Shmelyov now, he's surrounded by a bunch of non-skills. Karjalainen is meh/acceptable, same with Rudenkov and Tochitsky, but the rest of a team.. my god. I didn't even notice Nilsson and Johansson are gone. Well, not every Swede can become Rosen 2.0. The biggest disappointment? Rubtsov, not close. 15:34 average TOI, 26 games, 1 goal, 5 points, 1 shot per game, 42.4% on dot. Disgusting numbers. Ladies and gentlemen, here is yours #22 overall. 22 years old as well, so not a baby anymore.

Speaking of disappointments, another random disappointment of the season: Denis Vikharev. 6 points (3G) in 25 games. It turns out last season was just a fluke (17G+20A in 55GP)
 

SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
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Completely agree overall albeit I consider Rudenkov to be a better player than Shmelyov.
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
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Yeah, without Stromwall it's just awful. I feel bad for Shmelyov now, he's surrounded by a bunch of non-skills. Karjalainen is meh/acceptable, same with Rudenkov and Tochitsky, but the rest of a team.. my god. I didn't even notice Nilsson and Johansson are gone. Well, not every Swede can become Rosen 2.0. The biggest disappointment? Rubtsov, not close. 15:34 average TOI, 26 games, 1 goal, 5 points, 1 shot per game, 42.4% on dot. Disgusting numbers. Ladies and gentlemen, here is yours #22 overall. 22 years old as well, so not a baby anymore.

Speaking of disappointments, another random disappointment of the season: Denis Vikharev. 6 points (3G) in 25 games. It turns out last season was just a fluke (17G+20A in 55GP)
And now look up the standings. Sochi has double the wins of Dinamo Riga:help:
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
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Well that's kind of the whole point, they had a reasonably ok roster to start the season and stripped it down to like 5 decent players.
Well, you know, if I was that guy, I could start asking who's farm team Dinamo Riga is.:sarcasm:

It is what it is. There are weak, poorly financed teams. Sadly, they are the ususal suspects again. There is no other way out of it except they find money and can keep the players instead of starting a fire sale every year.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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One of rare instances SKA is actually playing pretty much their PO roster. Not leaving Traktor many chances today.
 

aonb

Registered User
Oct 26, 2013
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671
One of rare instances SKA is actually playing pretty much their PO roster. Not leaving Traktor many chances today.

A certain fact surprised me more than a result. Artyom Shvets-Rogovoy scored his first goal in SKA jersey. He needed 44 (!) games to do so. Even more surprising is that despite embarrassing effectiveness, his TOI is increasing lately. Today he played almost 21 minutes. It's... A LOT for a guy who has a total of 10 points in those 44 appearances
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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He is the kind of player coaches love though. Very much the kind of player those prime Dynamo teams were built around. Very smooth skater, responsible defensively, good in possession.. And regarding points, SKA doesn't really rely on him to score.
 

Tenkkapoo

Registered User
Jul 28, 2020
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43
Yeah, without Stromwall it's just awful. I feel bad for Shmelyov now, he's surrounded by a bunch of non-skills. Karjalainen is meh/acceptable, same with Rudenkov and Tochitsky, but the rest of a team.. my god. I didn't even notice Nilsson and Johansson are gone. Well, not every Swede can become Rosen 2.0. The biggest disappointment? Rubtsov, not close. 15:34 average TOI, 26 games, 1 goal, 5 points, 1 shot per game, 42.4% on dot. Disgusting numbers. Ladies and gentlemen, here is yours #22 overall. 22 years old as well, so not a baby anymore.

Speaking of disappointments, another random disappointment of the season: Denis Vikharev. 6 points (3G) in 25 games. It turns out last season was just a fluke (17G+20A in 55GP)
Rubtsov wanted to become a great star and pursue his NHL dream and went to play junior hockey in Canada. Everyone but himself and his agent could see how it would end up.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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Rubtsov wanted to become a great star and pursue his NHL dream and went to play junior hockey in Canada. Everyone but himself and his agent could see how it would end up.
Not like he did well in Russia. It's a tough one, this. Flyers picked him way too high, his attitude wasn't good, he didn't really do well at any league or competition after the draft. Me personally, I think he was never that good and the Flyers simply saw something that wasn't there when they picked him. Going to NA probably still wasn't the right move but not the major factor.
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
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Not like he did well in Russia. It's a tough one, this. Flyers picked him way too high, his attitude wasn't good, he didn't really do well at any league or competition after the draft. Me personally, I think he was never that good and the Flyers simply saw something that wasn't there when they picked him. Going to NA probably still wasn't the right move but not the major factor.
The major factor was revealed when he was squabbling at Vityaz, because he felt entitled to get TOI, roster spots and whatnot. This kind of attitude never works.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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I don't know how Peters is going to get himself out of this one... Listening to Belousov's interview now, Avto players really have no answers to what's happening. They play SKA, Magnitka, Traktor and SYu next 4 games.
 

SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
11,375
5,324
Speaking of disappointments, another random disappointment of the season: Denis Vikharev. 6 points (3G) in 25 games. It turns out last season was just a fluke (17G+20A in 55GP)
He heard you, goals in consecutive games after the return from injury.
 
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