News Article: Karlsson trade is the gift that keeps on giving for rebuilding Senators

[Samsquanch]

Oh...I think that could be argued big time. I think he has major value right now, not for long if he continues playing poorly, but right now I could see a lot of teams wanting him badly.

Its good we agree that it can be a topic of debate at least

So what exactly is major value then in your opinion, Im extremely curious?

Im somehow even more curious about what teams you believe would like him badly?

 

[SpezDispenser]

Its good we agree that it can be a topic of debate at least

So what exactly is major value then in your opinion, Im extremely curious?

Im somehow even more curious about what teams you believe would like him badly?

Any contender imo. What a weapon to add to a good team. The problem would be finding cap space, I assume, but what contender wouldn't want a guy like him?

As for value? I think he'd garner a big return, he's one of the best in the world when his game is on.

 

[Samsquanch]

Any contender imo. What a weapon to add to a good team. The problem would be finding cap space, I assume, but what contender wouldn't want a guy like him?

As for value? I think he'd garner a big return, he's one of the best in the world when his game is on.

Lol well you cant get any more vague with your answer than that, bravo

You pretty much answered the question unwittingly though - there is not a single contender that could possibly fit Karlssons contract without sending back a bunch of bad contracts in return. Unless your implying that hes worth another huge star in the league in return - which is clearly not happening for anyone that isnt in a similar funk (ie it will be for a struggling star with and albatross contract of their own).

That doesnt sound like a player with major value to me at all. I mean we already saw what Karlsson in his near prime was able to fetch, and I feel like its still less than what you seem to be implying he can get right now. And thats where this idea falls apart basically, especially because he undoubtedly lost some value with the combo of his new contract + current play.

I just dont see Karlsson contending for any more Norris trophies at this point in time, and he absolutely needs to be playing at that level (for 8 more years) to justify that enormous cap hit of his. You cant make that kind of money and not be dominating every 2/3 games, never mind being a complete liability that sinks a team with the amount of minutes he plays. His polarizing style of play is a headache for his teams fan that is simply not worth it at that price.

Im totally okay with the trend of the RFAs getting the big checks earlier on - IF it puts the brakes on some of these crazy UFA contracts for players that are on the way out of their primes and into their dirty 30's.

How many GMs are signing players to these contracts while knowing full well they wont be around to feel the pain in 8 years? Im guessing several of them because even Lady Cleopatra can see the bad things coming in the future to the teams signing these contracts.

 

[JD1]

At the moment, Karlsson is tied for 13th in the league in D man points and tied for 4th in the league on the wrong side of plus minus. That can't be what SJ is paying 11.5 million for

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

If that Sharks 1st is a top 5 pick then all of what we went through was worth it.

We need some luck to come our way bro, we have to lol.

Having 2 top 5 picks to look forward to would be the greatest 2-3 months leading up to the draft in years, not to mention the extra 1st rounder we also have.

lol, please SJ, finish bottom 5-10.

Man, 2 of Laferniere/Raymond/Lundell/Byfield/Holtz would be friking orgasmic

Our rebuild would be done.

 

[Micklebot]

I wanted to cycle back on your use of the word fairness. Do you consider yourself fair?

The other day you had a long post, a lot of which I disagreed with but I zeroed in on your attributing our ECF run in part to unsustainable goaltending. I responded that 7 of the past 9 cup winners received better goaltending than Anderson's 922 ecf run save percentage and that in one of those years the goaltending was split and both goalies were better than 922.

You've been posting away Bonk so we know you saw that you were quoted. you didn't address the numbers I threw out. Why? They're kinda hard to address aren't they when that's the kind of goaltending it takes to win most years. Those numbers kind of make the unsustainable goaltending narrative go away because that's what it takes to win.

It's not the first time I've challenged a subjective statement of yours with factual information and you've chosen to not engage further.

We were talking about two extremes and yes I agree they both exist and that they are both annoying. But in all fairness, if we want to be fair, you far closer to one of those extremes than the other but you kinda like to present yourself as Switzerland

We should take this unsustainable goaltending during the ECF run and remove it from the board's vocabulary

The irony is that while Anderson's level of play was unremarkable compared to his peers in that run (by peers I mean those you've selected to compare him to) it indisputable that he has not been able to sustain that level of play ever since.

You've posited that inherent bias colours some people's recollection of Anderson's performance. I think it's more recency bias. They remember his play against the Pens moreso than Bos or the NYR. The former was the team we faced that was to be used as a measuring stick as to whether we were contenders or not. It was the eventual SC winning team we got to game 7 double OT, a mantra often used to express how close we were and why we should push forward rather than be more cautious.

Strangely, Anderson was really bad against NYR with 4 out of 6 games below .900. People also felt we got past Bos in spite of his play in the first few games of that series. He was more Grant Furh, bend don't break, in those two series than stealing games like Hasek. Unsustainable goaltending might be a misnomer, but however you want to describe Anderson's performance, I really don't think it was a sustainable way to win playoff series.

 

[BatherSeason]

At the moment, Karlsson is tied for 13th in the league in D man points and tied for 4th in the league on the wrong side of plus minus. That can't be what SJ is paying 11.5 million for

I think one of the most frustrating parts with this whole Karlsson fiasco from last year is that a good chunk of fans and media kept telling us to "move on", and now those same people seem to be tripping over themselves with glee over Karlsson's struggles, with almost a "told you so" type of attitude, bringing him up at basically at any chance they get. Its kind of bizarre. So I ask now, why can’t we just move on, accept the trade for what it is and stop dragging the most talented player this team has ever had through the mud?

Dude was all world for us for years. Won 2 Norris trophies (should have been 3), led us to Game 7 of the ECF, so let’s just stop kicking the guy when he’s gone. Whether he left because of money, because of Eugene or because of the sunny California weather, lets just applaud him for what he brought to this organization and not tarnish what he accomplished here by being petty and trying to prove others wrong.

Karlsson was my absolute favorite player to ever put on a Sens uniform and I too, like everyone else is cheering for San Jose to struggle so that our draft pick becomes a lottery pick, and I also agree that maybe we dodged a bullet with that contract, but lets stop pretending that everyone knew that he and the San Jose Sharks were gonna struggle so much to start the season. Its Karlsson, we have seen him do it before, and he will turn it around. Hopefully not enough that the Sharks pick becomes a non-lottery pick, but I know we al
The Karlsson/Sens divorce was so painful for a lot of fans, so lets just move on. I need closure…lol

Apologies if this is off topic, feel free to remove or move my post as you see fit.

PS That is not meant to attack your post, I just used your post as reference.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I think one of the most frustrating parts with this whole Karlsson fiasco from last year is that a good chunk of fans and media kept telling us to "move on", and now those same people seem to be tripping over themselves with glee over Karlsson's struggles, with almost a "told you so" type of attitude, bringing him up at basically at any chance they get. Its kind of bizarre. So I ask now, why can’t we just move on, accept the trade for what it is and stop dragging the most talented player this team has ever had through the mud?

Dude was all world for us for years. Won 2 Norris trophies (should have been 3), led us to Game 7 of the ECF, so let’s just stop kicking the guy when he’s gone. Whether he left because of money, because of Eugene or because of the sunny California weather, lets just applaud him for what he brought to this organization and not tarnish what he accomplished here by being petty and trying to prove others wrong.

Karlsson was my absolute favorite player to ever put on a Sens uniform and I too, like everyone else is cheering for San Jose to struggle so that our draft pick becomes a lottery pick, and I also agree that maybe we dodged a bullet with that contract, but lets stop pretending that everyone knew that he and the San Jose Sharks were gonna struggle so much to start the season. Its Karlsson, we have seen him do it before, and he will turn it around. Hopefully not enough that the Sharks pick becomes a non-lottery pick, but I know we al
The Karlsson/Sens divorce was so painful for a lot of fans, so lets just move on. I need closure…lol

Apologies if this is off topic, feel free to remove or move my post as you see fit.

PS That is not meant to attack your post, I just used your post as reference.

This sounds reasonable. I mean, as soon as people stop using that trade to clobber what is supposed to be our favourite team over the head as an example of a terrible deal, perhaps the ‘others side’ will stop pointing out how the trade is currently looking not that bad, and perhaps actually good.

I find that some folks come out with loud, aggressive, negative takes, then band together against anyone who speaks out in favour of patience or moderation, and then after some time when the situations start to look a lot more clever than bungled they don’t want to talk about it anymore.

[mod]

 

[JD1]

I think one of the most frustrating parts with this whole Karlsson fiasco from last year is that a good chunk of fans and media kept telling us to "move on", and now those same people seem to be tripping over themselves with glee over Karlsson's struggles, with almost a "told you so" type of attitude, bringing him up at basically at any chance they get. Its kind of bizarre. So I ask now, why can’t we just move on, accept the trade for what it is and stop dragging the most talented player this team has ever had through the mud?

Dude was all world for us for years. Won 2 Norris trophies (should have been 3), led us to Game 7 of the ECF, so let’s just stop kicking the guy when he’s gone. Whether he left because of money, because of Eugene or because of the sunny California weather, lets just applaud him for what he brought to this organization and not tarnish what he accomplished here by being petty and trying to prove others wrong.

Karlsson was my absolute favorite player to ever put on a Sens uniform and I too, like everyone else is cheering for San Jose to struggle so that our draft pick becomes a lottery pick, and I also agree that maybe we dodged a bullet with that contract, but lets stop pretending that everyone knew that he and the San Jose Sharks were gonna struggle so much to start the season. Its Karlsson, we have seen him do it before, and he will turn it around. Hopefully not enough that the Sharks pick becomes a non-lottery pick, but I know we al
The Karlsson/Sens divorce was so painful for a lot of fans, so lets just move on. I need closure…lol

Apologies if this is off topic, feel free to remove or move my post as you see fit.

PS That is not meant to attack your post, I just used your post as reference.

I commend you for that post. Very well said.

When the Karlsson saga went on and on and on, you may recall k was one of very few guys in here advocating that we move on from him for hockey reasons. For that position I was attacked, to use your word, frequently. It's the internet so people get brave you know. I agree we should move on for the health of the place. I dont wish any ill will on the man. He had a great run and sadly it appears that injuries may prevent him from cementing a legacy as one if the best to ever play. The only thing left for me with Karlsson is applauding his eventual H o F induction.

 

[DaveMatthew]

This trade is really exposing the hypocrisy of many fans.

The same people who said you couldn't blame Dorion for the Duchene trade because he had no control over how high the pick would be are ready to declare him a genius because he might get a top 10 pick, even though he had no idea it would be a top 10 pick.

Meanwhile, the same people who said the Duchene trade was terrible because we gave away such a high pick are saying Dorion shouldn't get any credit, even if San Jose tanks this season and we end up with a top 10 pick.

IMO, the trade was still bad because we traded away a 27 year old who was 10 months removed from being considered a top 3 player in the world for a magic bean pick, a mediocre prospect, and filler.

At the same time, I think it was the right decision to not re-sign Karlsson to an 8 year, 11million/season contract.

Both can be correct.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Personally, I like to think that I’m the same jerk in here as I am in the real world.

 

[BonkTastic]

Personally, I like to think that I’m the same jerk in here as I am in the real world.

Honestly, we just had a misunderstanding that developed into something else.

In fairness to you, I probably unnecessarily egged you on that last time, and I apologise for that.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Honestly, we just had a misunderstanding that developed into something else.

In fairness to you, I probably unnecessarily egged you on that last time, and I apologise for that.

No worries, I do that too sometimes.

I get defensive over the team, and while I recognize that everyone else does too, and loves the team as well, it doesn’t seem to mean that I can butt heads at times. It’s just who I am, though I generally mean well even when I’m spirited.

I don’t take much of it seriously, as I do honestly just want to enjoy the team on cruise control as much as I can.

It’s all good man.

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

If that Sharks 1st is a top 5 pick then all of what we went through was worth it.

We need some luck to come our way bro, we have to lol.

Having 2 top 5 picks to look forward to would be the greatest 2-3 months leading up to the draft in years, not to mention the extra 1st rounder we also have.

lol, please SJ, finish bottom 5-10.

Man, 2 of Laferniere/Raymond/Lundell/Byfield/Holtz would be friking orgasmic

Our rebuild would be done.

We could have our very own Crosby Malkin

Lafreniere Byfield.

I know that’s wishful thinking no doubt but a man can dream.

 

[Tuna99]

This trade is really exposing the hypocrisy of many fans.

The same people who said you couldn't blame Dorion for the Duchene trade because he had no control over how high the pick would be are ready to declare him a genius because he might get a top 10 pick, even though he had no idea it would be a top 10 pick.

Meanwhile, the same people who said the Duchene trade was terrible because we gave away such a high pick are saying Dorion shouldn't get any credit, even if San Jose tanks this season and we end up with a top 10 pick.

IMO, the trade was still bad because we traded away a 27 year old who was 10 months removed from being considered a top 3 player in the world for a magic bean pick, a mediocre prospect, and filler.

At the same time, I think it was the right decision to not re-sign Karlsson to an 8 year, 11million/season contract.

Both can be correct.

Internally DOrion would of known where his injury was at and how it would effect his game and future.

I love EK as a player and still check his stats line after every game.

But I was okay with the trade return. The trade itself and the entire organization was a GONG show, but that SJ lineup was destined for decline. Good trade for Dorion, Ottawa needed depth and they got it. I roasted Dorion for the Duchene trade because it was just stupid top to bottom, and he deserved it.

But the EKtrade is going to workout. When Norris gets here and you have a top 10 2019 pick and Norris and Balcers all on a line with the other futures coming, it’ll be a good if not great trade for Ottawa

 

[TonySoprano11]

Like others, Karlsson was also my favorite player to watch night in and night out. I don't think he ever topped Alfie as my favorite Sens of all time, but he came pretty close.

That being said, something about this guy changed the last year or so that he was here. I don't know exactly what it was, if it was a personal thing like the death of his baby, the media criticism, the fiasco with Hoffman ... I don't know what it was, but something turned Karlsson from a class act to a class A douche. You saw it in the way he talked to the media, you saw it in his physical appearance, you saw it the way he carried himself on the ice.

I was pretty devastated (as a fan) when he was finally traded and still hoped at the time that he would come back in the off season. However, watching him in SJ I realized what that something had changed about him. All the things I mentioned became pretty clear. In hindsight I am so glad the Sens traded him, did not sign him long term, and that Sharks are struggling with him. He will never be the same player he was before his transformation - whatever that was.

 

[Sensfan4life]

This thread will be a goldmine later on.

Feel free to bet on Dorion/Melnyk.

I'll take EK everyday and when this inevitably turns around, crow will be served.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

This thread will be a goldmine later on.

Feel free to bet on Dorion/Melnyk.

I'll take EK everyday and when this inevitably turns around, crow will be served.

Bookmarked...

I doubt the crow will be served.

it will hopefully work out for both teams, but I think Ottawa has a leg up

 

[Sensfan4life]

Bookmarked...

Just like this thread.

 

[Sens]

This thread will be a goldmine later on.

Feel free to bet on Dorion/Melnyk.

I'll take EK everyday and when this inevitably turns around, crow will be served.

it was like that last year with the Sharks slow start and then in December EK went god mode and it was nothing but crickets

 

[BonkTastic]

it was like that last year with the Sharks slow start and then in December EK went god mode and it was nothing but crickets

Hmm... That DOES seem vaguely familiar.

Weren't we having discussions last season about the Sharks missing the playoffs then, too?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Hmm... That DOES seem vaguely familiar.

Weren't we having discussions last season about the Sharks missing the playoffs then, too?

I definitely think they may turn it around. Look at the Blues last year. The odds are against them though

 

[BonkTastic]

I definitely think they may turn it around. Look at the Blues last year. The odds are against them though

Yeah... like, they might turn it around just enough to finish just outside of the playoffs, and take them out of a top-10 draft pick spot in the standings. Like... that pick ends up being something like 12th overall.

That seems like a pretty reasonable scenario, all things considered

 

[Tuna99]

I definitely think they may turn it around. Look at the Blues last year. The odds are against them though

Unless the Sharks have a Conn Smyth winning trophy winner in their system, not going to happen.

I don’t know why people are surprised by the Sharks falling off, Edmonton had McJesus and Draisiatal and were brutal. Sharks are your classic rebuild on the fly from an organization that was good for long they fell into believing they just could add a couple of high end players and keep it rolling.

EK is a classic slow starter, and when he’s going his teams win, he might be the best 2nd half player in the nhl - but still don’t think it’s enough to avoid a bottom 10 finish

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Unless the Sharks have a Conn Smyth winning trophy winner in their system, not going to happen.

I don’t know why people are surprised by the Sharks falling off, Edmonton had McJesus and Draisiatal and were brutal. Sharks are your classic rebuild on the fly from an organization that was good for long they fell into believing they just could add a couple of high end players and keep it rolling.

EK is a classic slow starter, and when he’s going his teams win, he might be the best 2nd half player in the nhl - but still don’t think it’s enough to avoid a bottom 10 finish

There's also a chance younger/inexperienced teams like Arizona, Vancouver and Edmonton will start to slip, as well. We see it a lot...young excited teams roar out of the gate, then hit a wall by xmas, while the older teams start to pick up in the new year.