Kansas City still looking for team?

[Confucius]

I haven't lived in Welland for quite a while, but when I did it was a little over an hour to get to Copps Coliseum from home and it was no more than 10 minutes less to get to the old Sabres arena because of the lineup at the border before a game (and afterward if we came straight home after the game). With a passport required now to cross the border by car, I would expect the border lineups to be slower now so the difference in drive time would likely be insignificant now.

St Catharines, of course, is the largest city and thus biggest sports market in the Niagara Peninsula. So I went to Google maps and it was a whopping 6 minutes estimated longer drive from mid-St Catharines to Copps. And that doesn't include dealing with the lineup at the border going to Buffalo.

No offense to our American friends, but I also felt a lot safer parking in downtown Hamilton than I did in downtown Buffalo, and I'd also take Canadian beer over American beer any day.

People don't consider all the things that could go wrong, making your gameday trip very expensive.
Car breaks down in Buffalo..
Get a ticket in the states, nevermind an accident.
Possibility of major delay at the border. Reminds me of the commercial where the U S border guard dismantles a car.
Any of the above happens the game cost skyrockets.

and Mexican beer is better

 

[dronald]

So in conclusion, in terms of which market is better it's Hamilton > Buffalo. Good to know.

(And for the sake of staying on topic, Hamilton > KC)

[QC > KC]

Go go NHL go.

 

[Ryan34222]

I haven't lived in Welland for quite a while, but when I did it was a little over an hour to get to Copps Coliseum from home and it was no more than 10 minutes less to get to the old Sabres arena because of the lineup at the border before a game (and afterward if we came straight home after the game). With a passport required now to cross the border by car, I would expect the border lineups to be slower now so the difference in drive time would likely be insignificant now.

St Catharines, of course, is the largest city and thus biggest sports market in the Niagara Peninsula. So I went to Google maps and it was a whopping 6 minutes estimated longer drive from mid-St Catharines to Copps. And that doesn't include dealing with the lineup at the border going to Buffalo.

No offense to our American friends, but I also felt a lot safer parking in downtown Hamilton than I did in downtown Buffalo, and I'd also take Canadian beer over American beer any day.

Tbh wasn't including STC, even though I did originally say Niagara region. I was referring to the lower part of the region. Niagara falls down through Fort Erie. Where I imagine the large majority of support is coming from.

the border doesnt seem to be that big of a hassle to the folk that do go to the games. If it was that big of a pain we wouldnt be having this discussion because there would be no Canucklehead crossing over.
Anyways I still believe the majority of attendees at a Hamilton game would be Hamilton area by a large number Burlington Oakville.. And the rest fight for the remaining tickets.

 

[RandR]

Tbh wasn't including STC, even though I did originally say Niagara region. I was referring to the lower part of the region. Niagara falls down through Fort Erie. Where I imagine the large majority of support is coming from.

the border doesnt seem to be that big of a hassle to the folk that do go to the games. If it was that big of a pain we wouldnt be having this discussion because there would be no Canucklehead crossing over.
Anyways I still believe the majority of attendees at a Hamilton game would be Hamilton area by a large number Burlington Oakville.. And the rest fight for the remaining tickets.

I agree with you there. And yes, no doubt the majority of the people clamouring for tickets to Hamilton games would be from Hamilton itself and then the nearest cities going up the QEW towards Toronto.

As for the border, it isn't enough of a reason not to go to games (or concerts or whatever) in Buffalo. If I lived in Welland again it would just become part of the equation amongst many other things for deciding where I'd rather go see the odd game if Hamilton presented an NHL option for me.

 

[RandR]

People don't consider all the things that could go wrong, making your gameday trip very expensive.
Car breaks down in Buffalo..
Get a ticket in the states, nevermind an accident.
Possibility of major delay at the border. Reminds me of the commercial where the U S border guard dismantles a car.
Any of the above happens the game cost skyrockets.

and Mexican beer is better

FWIW, many years ago my sister was involved in a very serious 10-car accident in a snow storm on the way back from either a Buffalo Bills game or skiing. Of course that could have happened on the way back from a CFL or hockey game in Hamilton or Toronto too, but having to fight a lawsuit against an insurance company in a foreign court to prove she wasn't at fault added to the personal hell she went through during her recovery.

On a more positive note ... yes, Mexican beer is better.

Anyways, back on topic ... I agree with the idea that after keeping the Coyotes in Phoenix, moving them to Kansas City or another western conference location would be the next preference for the league.

 

[Ryan34222]

So in conclusion, in terms of which market is better it's Hamilton > Buffalo. Good to know.

(And for the sake of staying on topic, Hamilton > KC)

[QC > KC]

Go go NHL go.

no way NHL gives Canada another team back right away..
so if Yotes have to move
KC gets it,
if another team has to move
QC gets it,

if there is expansion.
Hamilton will get its hopes up and be let down again, unless whomever buys MLSE (crossing my fingers for Rogers) wouldnt mind making a cool hundred mill or so..

 

[dronald]

no way NHL gives Canada another team back right away..
so if Yotes have to move
KC gets it,
if another team has to move
QC gets it,

if there is expansion.
Hamilton will get its hopes up and be let down again, unless whomever buys MLSE (crossing my fingers for Rogers) wouldnt mind making a cool hundred mill or so..

I was speaking in terms of which markets are better to support a team.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Which has 2.1 million people. 2.6 within 45 minutes. Winnioeg won't draw in the US, as all the Canadian teams don't

The problem with Canada is that they just don't have the population numbers to support that many teams.

For example California has 37 million residents while Canada has 30 million as a nation..

I just don't understand how you can put an NHL team in a Canadian city with a population of 800,000...

KC at least has a couple million....

The thing is what side of the border would be good to put the team on? Missouri or Kansas?

We're talking all sorts of funding and tax codes etc, so from a financial perspective I think it matters...

I think that idea would be up for serious debate among investors and when it comes to an arena and taxes on tickets etc...

 

[justwinbaby2012]

Green Bay?

I think that is a great idea really. I for some reason would love to see a team up there. They already have proved with there football they are some passionate fans that could sell out a hockey game night in and night out

 

[Hawksfan2828]

I think that is a great idea really. I for some reason would love to see a team up there. They already have proved with there football they are some passionate fans that could sell out a hockey game night in and night out

That will never happen...

Green Bay only has a population of around 750,000...

Hockey would never work in Green Bay...

The only city in Wisconsin that could possibly support an NHL team is Milwaukee but Milwaukee is a Hawks and Badger town...

Green Bay is a town not a "city."

Not to mention there is nothing within a 100 mile radius of the city - It's not like its a city with suburbs...

Green Bay is in the middle of pretty much no where...

 

[justwinbaby2012]

Lets look at this from business point of view which cities could the NHL. relocate or expand to where they can profit the most from .

1. Hamilton
2. Seattle
3. Winnipeg
4. Portland
5. Quebec City
6. Kansas City
7. Houston
8. Salt Lake City

All in that order

Cities most likely to get NHL. teams ethier by relocation or expansion .

Winnipeg
Hamilton
Kansas City
Houston
Quebec City

Not in exact order

Don't forget Green Bay now. They have to appropriate weather out there if you will. Lots of young and old people that play and watch hockey. They have sold out Lambeau field 367 times in a row. They got some real passionate people up there, and I really do believe you could make some money and potentially create a dynasty. If I was looking to start a team or move one. They would be on the list.

 

[justwinbaby2012]

That will never happen...

Green Bay only has a population of around 750,000...

Hockey would never work in Green Bay...

Green Bay is a town not a "city."

Not to mention there is nothing within a 100 mile radius of the city - It's not like its a city with suburbs...

Green Bay is in the middle of pretty much no where...

Well your right not much there, BUT that could work to their advantage in a sense that there IS nothing to do. They could all go and watch some hockey and grow towards the game. I'm sure most of those 750,000 people are hockey fans, and could now support a team in their area. I'm not saying it will happen, but maybe something to think about.

 

[Nuclear SUV]

That will never happen...

Green Bay only has a population of around 750,000...

It is way smaller than that. Brown County only has 250,000 people. Add in nearby Appleton and it is still under 500,000 people.

 

[dronald]

The problem with Canada is that they just don't have the population numbers to support that many teams.

For example California has 37 million residents while Canada has 30 million as a nation..

I just don't understand how you can put an NHL team in a Canadian city with a population of 800,000...

KC at least has a couple million....

The thing is what side of the border would be good to put the team on? Missouri or Kansas?

We're talking all sorts of funding and tax codes etc, so from a financial perspective I think it matters...

I think that idea would be up for serious debate among investors and when it comes to an arena and taxes on tickets etc...

No, you clearly don't. Especially seeing that we have discussed it to death and everyone agrees without a doubt Hamilton could support a team if given one. In fact, people are afraid it would be such a great team it would take profits from that of Buffalo.

So please, HF, stop using this arguement, no one believes it.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Well your right not much there, BUT that could work to their advantage in a sense that there IS nothing to do. They could all go and watch some hockey and grow towards the game. I'm sure most of those 750,000 people are hockey fans, and could now support a team in their area. I'm not saying it will happen, but maybe something to think about.

They all pay huge money to support the Packers - they couldn't afford a team and driving there from say Chicago would take 4-6 hours..

There is just not enough people to support a team in Green Bay.... Milwaukee is a different story, but like I said their fans are Hawks or Badger fans....

I'm from the WI - IL border and I have been to Green Bay or passed through 100's of times and that city wouldn't accept an NHL team or would support one...

I don't even believe they have an arena there that is NHL caliber....

 

[Hawksfan2828]

It is way smaller than that. Brown County only has 250,000 people. Add in nearby Appleton and it is still under 500,000 people.

You're right it's only 306,000

I looked it up several months ago and could have sworn it was 750,000.

At any rate it's a town not a city and it would never be able to support an NHL franchise or even an AHL franchise.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

No, you clearly don't. Especially seeing that we have discussed it to death and everyone agrees without a doubt Hamilton could support a team if given one. In fact, people are afraid it would be such a great team it would take profits from that of Buffalo.

So please, HF, stop using this arguement, no one believes it.

Did anyone bother to look up the gross income of individuals from Hamilton?
.
Can they afford to support the team?

I'm sure there are plenty of fans but can they support the franchise?

If not it would be dumb to put one there because hockey is a business first and entertainment second...

You have an arena that you can sellout 20,000 a night - minimum?

 

[dronald]

Did anyone bother to look up the gross income of individuals from Hamilton?
.
Can they afford to support the team?

I'm sure there are plenty of fans but can they support the franchise?

If not it would be dumb to put one there because hockey is a business first and entertainment second...

Yes, they can afford it. "Top five most profited franchise" to quote the NHL.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Yes, they can afford it. "Top five most profited franchise" to quote the NHL.

What the hell does that mean - they haven't had a franchise since the "bulldogs."

Don't get me wrong I would love to see Hamilton get a franchise but its not about the fans its about making money...

It be illogical as a business person to put a team in Hamilton...

They don't even have an arena that could support the demand needed for an owner to even think about it...

 

[dronald]

What the hell does that mean - they haven't had a franchise since the "bulldogs."

Don't get me wrong I would love to see Hamilton get a franchise but its not about the fans its about making money...

It be illogical as a business person to put a team in Hamilton...

They don't even have an arena that could support the demand needed for an owner to even think about it...

You're ignoring that the NHL admitted it would be a top five most profited franchise in all of the league. Why are you argueing with the NHL on this?

Not to mention Katz bought the arena and owns it and is paying Hamilton $1,000,000 if there isn't a team there in three years.

 

[Habs05]

no way NHL gives Canada another team back right away..
so if Yotes have to move
KC gets it,
if another team has to move
QC gets it,

if there is expansion.
Hamilton will get its hopes up and be let down again, unless whomever buys MLSE (crossing my fingers for Rogers) wouldnt mind making a cool hundred mill or so..

95-96: 2 teams in a row to the US (25% of their 8 teams at that time). The USA equivalent (25%) would be 6 teams in a row to Canada (including Winnipeg). That I agree will never happen (and I don't want to). What I mean is that 2 teams in a row is noting to the US compared to what happened here before.

Seriously KC mayor is looking for a NBA franchise first but since it's in lockout he's eyeing the NHL (an not because he wants one, he's just trying to lure someone to rent his expensive arena). I didn't see any articles concerning a NEW arena (an owner) in Seattle.

If Qc is the only viable option and if the league must relocate Phoenix, it will go to Canada. Snubbing a good market wouldn't be the best choice; they want money, they'll move there.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

You're ignoring that the NHL admitted it would be a top five most profited franchise in all of the league. Why are you argueing with the NHL on this?

Not to mention Katz bought the arena and owns it and is paying Hamilton $1,000,000 if there isn't a team there in three years.

I don't care what the NHL says - talk is talk but I'm talking arenas and economics here.

Some people just want to see a team in Hamilton (as do I) but if it will fail as a franchise it's not the correct move ....

Vegas would be better city.....

 

[dronald]

I don't care what the NHL says - talk is talk but I'm talking arenas and economics here.

Some people just want to see a team in Hamilton (as do I) but if it will fail as a franchise it's not the correct move ....

Vegas would be better city.....

Oh, I see. You're a troll.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Oh, I see. You're a troll.

Believe it or not, there are people around here who don't share each and every opinion that you have. And they aren't all trolls.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Oh, I see. You're a troll.

How is he a troll? He said he supported Hamilton. He just wants to expand to new cities.

Knock it off.