Proposal: Jonathan Toews To NYR

[AirGut]

..because it’s Toews and it’d be difficult to do. NYR gives up too much in your original proposal, no way they agree to that, and with Toews’ contract and play.. NYR would need to really want that guy, Chicago would have to agree with your outlook, both sides would have to work around cap- and it’s just easier to leave the Chicago hero in Chicago and let him facilitate the younger guys’ development. I get it, you like Toews and want him in NY- but once again, I just don’t think it’s easy enough or desired enough by the actual teams involved.

Meanwhile Toews has been up and down the past few years, a decline of some degree should be expected given his age- and personally that’s not someone I’d want to trade for and put in a new situation- a guy who’s put all his passion and talent into one team- sometimes adjusting to a new squad isn’t easy. Unless he’s really angry at Hawks management I doubt he’d want to leave or be the same player in a new system, necessarily.

In my opinion I don't think he wants to stay the next three years with Chicago. From what it seems they really haven't been telling him much of anything as to where the team truly is headed. They just now finally went forth and published an official letter, just a week ago the guy seemed pretty disgruntled. It's not so much he's angry but he wants to win now, he expects to compete when he starts camp and him waiting another 3-4 years possibly even longer to even get a snuff is not something I seem him being 100% on. Kane maybe, but not him. Not to mention the Rangers are by all means looking into a center of his caliber. If they got talking for Eichel they sure as hell were thinking of moving some pieces for him, you don't think they'd be willing to use those same pieces to push a Toews trade now that CHI is ready to fully dive in? It all matters on what Toews says in the next week or month to be honest. Also like I've said if Bowman is smart he'll know that years of getting mid 1st round picks aren't gonna magically thrust your rebuild unless you hit on those guys. So how is CHI gonna sell a rebuild to Toews in the first place if they aren't competitive by his contract year? Toews is either gone in 3 years for absolutely nothing or you can move him now when you'll get decent building blocks to move forward with. And it works for NYR because they want to be as competitive as they can be NOW with some of our guys still on ELC's. Trust me Gorton is looking for that 1B type C and Toews is almost a perfect match in some sense. The cap works with R.Strome and I don't see CHI not willing to accept him considering he's a 26 year old who has changed his career around. The NYR would be paying Toews around 7 after retention which is what Strome might be getting anyways, most likely at similar term even. If it's not Toews the Rangers don't really have other guys like that to look into, I mean call me crazy but I'd even rather have Toews right now on this team going forward rather than Barkov. We already got the finesse and points, we need that leader that experience and that discipline to show these young guys what being a contending team means. That energy that rubs off on all the young players is all worth it. That sort of stoic energy isn't something around all the time.

There is a huge gap between Hajek ------> Miller --------> Lundkvist

Yes there is a gap but not as much between Miller/Lundkvist as you might think. Miller and Nils I view in the same tier and giving either of them up you better be getting something more, that's why Hajek makes the most sense to me. Or someone like Jones.

Did the Rangers get a 10 million dollar cap increase ? No? Well not happening then

We wouldn't be giving them just rookies, Strome's contract would carry to them so they'd still save some money albeit not much with retention. And the 6-7 that Toews would be making on the NYR's cap would replace Strome. Look the point of moving Toews isn't about "clearing cap" you're doing it because you now fully committed to a rebuild and you need to accumulate prospects and young assets.

 

[SRHRangers]

No thanks from the Hawks

Toews at 50% Retention

For

Georgiev, Kravtsov, 21 1st?

 

[bbny]

No thanks from the Hawks

That's fine, and expected to be honest. But I will say as a Rangers fan, I saw what a fan favorite Captain (McDonagh) can realistically bring back in a trade when tearing it down, despite all of our expectations as fans. While Toews has reached a higher pinnacle than McDonagh at their respective positions, Toews is also 32 and expensive. McDonagh was 28 and fairly cheap for a top pairing defenseman.

I would hope the Rangers wouldn't pay more. If the Blackhawks can get more from another team, I would tip my cap and move on.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Toews at 50% Retention

For

Georgiev, Kravtsov, 21 1st?

Let’s fax it in.

 

[Mrfenn92]

That's fine, and expected to be honest. But I will say as a Rangers fan, I saw what a fan favorite Captain (McDonagh) can realistically bring back in a trade when tearing it down, despite all of our expectations as fans. While Toews has reached a higher pinnacle than McDonagh at their respective positions, Toews is also 32 and expensive. McDonagh was 28 and fairly cheap for a top pairing defenseman.

I would hope the Rangers wouldn't pay more. If the Blackhawks can get more from another team, I would tip my cap and move on.

No issue with that at all

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Hawks fans on this board: “People keep offering CRAP for our players. Be reasonable jerks!!!!”

Also Hawks fans: “Hey how about Toews for Shesterkin?”

i didnt suggest it, i was responding to the OP who offered up either russian goalie and I opted for the better one. take it up with him

 

[bernmeister]

Toews is 32 and he'll be 34 at last year of the contract, For this trade to work Chicago has to retain a decent amount and take back can they not sure....but assuming they can retain 50 percent making Toews a 5 mil center for Rangers.....Rangers have to give up something to get the player and the cap part of the trade.....So if it was first round pick top three protection for next yr...If rangers get top 3 that 21 first rounder becomes a 2022 unprotected first and an a prospect like K Miller or Nils L. going back along with Strome.......If they want Georgiev too the Rangers keep their first rounder and the deal becomes Georgiev Strome and one of those two defenseman...... That's a doable trade,,,,,,,Face it if its true he inquired about Eichel then he is looking to do a move but Eichel will cost you a fortune and you will have to overpay there will be no retention because he only 23 and with Barkov except he's up in two years maybe more of chance there but if Florida were to trade him you will have to overpay....If the Hawks were to take Kratsov in the place of one of those two defenseman if i'm the rangers I'd do it because he has a much higher chance of being a bust he;s a bit of a head case and they just got back to back top wingers in the past two drafts

Again, will not move our elite elcs in any deal, esp for an older more expensive vet

Hawks fans on this board: “People keep offering CRAP for our players. Be reasonable jerks!!!!”

Also Hawks fans: “Hey how about Toews for Shesterkin?”

Would not trade Shesty unless maybe comp aged guy like Dahlin involved.

Toews at 50% Retention

For

Georgiev, Kravtsov, 21 1st?

No.
Krav is gonna be good he is a deal killer.

 

[tailgunner]

if your the hawks you take this deal and run to the hills...if your the rangers GM and you do this, you should be fired the next day.

 

[Extra Texture]

This would be the most Rangersesque move ever, like a throwback to the early 2000s. See a bright new future coming with a lot of talents on the horizon, and immediately trade for a high salary star that is supposed to accelerate the process.

Even with decent retention, this would still put Panarin, Toews, and Kreider at somewhere in the 22-25M combined salary range, just as they get into their early to mid 30s, and an exciting crop of youngers will start to need new contracts.

They should just stay the course, IMO.

 

[AirGut]

i didnt suggest it, i was responding to the OP who offered up either russian goalie and I opted for the better one. take it up with him

It was just Georgiev I had in the offer. Shesterkin is off the table and untouchable. Plus Shesterkin is even more of an overpayment than my offer for Toews

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

It was just Georgiev I had in the offer. Shesterkin is off the table and untouchable. Plus Shesterkin is even more of an overpayment than my offer for Toews

my apologies, mixed up your original OP with cgc83's proposal that suggested either russian goalie

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Again, will not move our elite elcs in any deal, esp for an older more expensive vet



Would not trade Shesty unless maybe comp aged guy like Dahlin involved.




No.
Krav is gonna be good he is a deal killer.

Yes but that's the point you stay the course but if Rangers do make a deal or are trying because maybe they think Chytl isn't up to taking the number 2 center spot and want to move on from strome now and make a move for a cup in a shortened season....They will have to give up something to get something especially when you can't take back all the cap.....Toews at 5 million you could do a lot worse it's about even maybe million more if you keep strome and he doesn't need to play with Panarin....Strome isn't a bad player but Panarin drives his game up big time.......As far as trading Shesterkin no way Rangers do that ....

 

[SRHRangers]

Again, will not move our elite elcs in any deal, esp for an older more expensive vet



Would not trade Shesty unless maybe comp aged guy like Dahlin involved.




No.
Krav is gonna be good he is a deal killer.

We agree mostly on situations like this.

Toews is just different because of the intangibles. This team has a great foundation, but literally zero grit, leadership, and experience.

I'm only considering this at 50% retention. With Georgie in the deal, were only adding 3 mil.

Kravtsov is in it because you have to break an egg to make an omelette. I also would rather keep Miller and Lundkvist.

 

[wahsnairb]

..because it’s Toews and it’d be difficult to do. NYR gives up too much in your original proposal, no way they agree to that, and with Toews’ contract and play.. NYR would need to really want that guy, Chicago would have to agree with your outlook, both sides would have to work around cap- and it’s just easier to leave the Chicago hero in Chicago and let him facilitate the younger guys’ development. I get it, you like Toews and want him in NY- but once again, I just don’t think it’s easy enough or desired enough by the actual teams involved.

Meanwhile Toews has been up and down the past few years, a decline of some degree should be expected given his age- and personally that’s not someone I’d want to trade for and put in a new situation- a guy who’s put all his passion and talent into one team- sometimes adjusting to a new squad isn’t easy. Unless he’s really angry at Hawks management I doubt he’d want to leave or be the same player in a new system, necessarily.

I keep seeing stuff like this. People keep mentioning Toews declining (and Kane a couple times LOL). Where are people getting this from? Or is it some Mandela Effect assumption because of his age?

He is coming off his two best statistical seasons of his career and is still a shutdown C. He played amazing in the “playoffs” this year aka the last time we saw him play.

It’s 1 thing for us to have to see all kinds of goofy hypothetical proposals for our star players because of this letter, but the subsequent misinformed devaluation of them is comical.

 

[bernmeister]

We agree mostly on situations like this.

Toews is just different because of the intangibles. This team has a great foundation, but literally zero grit, leadership, and experience.

I'm only considering this at 50% retention. With Georgie in the deal, were only adding 3 mil.

Kravtsov is in it because you have to break an egg to make an omelette. I also would rather keep Miller and Lundkvist.

Mostly agree, agreed.
But I'll pass on the omelette and keep Krav.

 

[bernmeister]

Yes but that's the point you stay the course but if Rangers do make a deal or are trying because maybe they think Chytl isn't up to taking the number 2 center spot and want to move on from strome now and make a move for a cup in a shortened season....They will have to give up something to get something especially when you can't take back all the cap.....Toews at 5 million you could do a lot worse it's about even maybe million more if you keep strome and he doesn't need to play with Panarin....Strome isn't a bad player but Panarin drives his game up big time.......As far as trading Shesterkin no way Rangers do that ....

Operative word here is "if".
We re not going there.

 

[bernmeister]

I keep seeing stuff like this. People keep mentioning Toews declining (and Kane a couple times LOL). Where are people getting this from? Or is it some Mandela Effect assumption because of his age?

He is coming off his two best statistical seasons of his career and is still a shutdown C. He played amazing in the “playoffs” this year aka the last time we saw him play.

It’s 1 thing for us to have to see all kinds of goofy hypothetical proposals for our star players because of this letter, but the subsequent misinformed devaluation of them is comical.

Not up on dif betw this guy approaching mid 20s vs approaching 30.
But just to be clear, I for one am not crapping on this guy.
Just saying we recognize it's a whole roster, need to keep turnover so there is youth and cap compliance, and not just Toews, but 99% of the time for the foreseeable future, we are not going youth for vet at present or anytime soon.

 

[wahsnairb]

Not up on dif betw this guy approaching mid 20s vs approaching 30.
But just to be clear, I for one am not crapping on this guy.
Just saying we recognize it's a whole roster, need to keep turnover so there is youth and cap compliance, and not just Toews, but 99% of the time for the foreseeable future, we are not going youth for vet at present or anytime soon.

I understand that. I understand him not being the best fit for where NYR are right now. This thread has been the most civil of the many about Kane and Toews. I was just speaking generally... the consensus seems to be that these guys are falling off because of their age when their last 2 seasons say the opposite, that they are peaking.

There are other factors like cap hit (obviously) that may drop their value should cap not be retained, but their PLAY certainty shouldn’t drop their value like it has been in almost all of these.

People are legit confused and/or making things up, that’s all I was addressing.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I understand that. I understand him not being the best fit for where NYR are right now. This thread has been the most civil of the many about Kane and Toews. I was just speaking generally... the consensus seems to be that these guys are falling off because of their age when their last 2 seasons say the opposite, that they are peaking.

There are other factors like cap hit (obviously) that may drop their value should cap not be retained, but their PLAY certainty shouldn’t drop their value like it has been in almost all of these.

People are legit confused and/or making things up, that’s all I was addressing.

You don't need to explain anything to him....you state how you feel your opinion and that's it would be funny if tomorrow this just in ...........TSN REPORTS TOEWS TRADED FOR HALF CONTRACT STROME GEORGIEV KRATSOV NILS L. AND A FIRST ROUNDER LOL LOL......

 

[CraigsList]

Just stay the course.

you need to remember you need space to re-sign Zibanejad, Fox, Shesterkin, etc.

Toews would only **** you over cap wise, trading for him now would be extremely short sighted and pretty much destroy the very successful rebuild New York is currently going through.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

We agree mostly on situations like this.

Toews is just different because of the intangibles. This team has a great foundation, but literally zero grit, leadership, and experience.

I'm only considering this at 50% retention. With Georgie in the deal, were only adding 3 mil.

Kravtsov is in it because you have to break an egg to make an omelette. I also would rather keep Miller and Lundkvist.

Could be the three seasons before that, the fact that he’ll be 32 or so, or the fact that players statistically generally decline from 30 on- or a combo of those things. If you wanna argue he’s an outlier, fine, but don’t act like it’s crazy to see his up-and-down play and think “he’ll end this contract on a down and not an up.”

 

[lukeleim]

NY Rangers
Jonathan Toews

Chicago Blackhawks
Ryan Strome
Brendan Smith

 

[AirGut]

Just stay the course.

you need to remember you need space to re-sign Zibanejad, Fox, Shesterkin, etc.

Toews would only **** you over cap wise, trading for him now would be extremely short sighted and pretty much destroy the very successful rebuild New York is currently going through.

That's why I feel Strome of Buchnevich would be heading the other way. More specifically Strome because with salary retention he's making about the same Toews would be. That's why it works. The argument that we wouldn't have ANY cap space is kind of drawn out. Toews contract would just replace Strome. And trust me Kakko and Fox are not getting 6+M right out the gate. We'd be cup contenders for the next 3 years maybe even longer with Toews in my opinion

 

[pld459666]

That's why I feel Strome of Buchnevich would be heading the other way. More specifically Strome because with salary retention he's making about the same Toews would be. That's why it works. The argument that we wouldn't have ANY cap space is kind of drawn out. Toews contract would just replace Strome. And trust me Kakko and Fox are not getting 6+M right out the gate. We'd be cup contenders for the next 3 years maybe even longer with Toews in my opinion

Some serious work needs to be done on D for serious cup contender not to ring hollow and tnat WITH toews.

 

[Pitter Patter]

Again, will not move our elite elcs in any deal, esp for an older more expensive vet



Would not trade Shesty unless maybe comp aged guy like Dahlin involved.




No.
Krav is gonna be good he is a deal killer.

Could you expand on this hypothetical Shesterkin/Dahlin trade? Does it include Lafreniere?