Proposal: Jonathan Toews To NYR

AirGut

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Some serious work needs to be done on D for serious cup contender not to ring hollow and tnat WITH toews.
Maybe.....but if DeAngelo plays LD our top 4 is pretty set in stone and it's honestly not as bad as some people make it out to be. We have SO many defensive prospects in our crop. I'd more than willing to part ways with one for a guy like Toews. This team is instantly a much better overall club with Toews rounding out that top 6. And it confuses me to no end because all the people talking about wanting someone better than Strome and wanting Strome out would now magically be angry at a guy like Toews coming in and replacing him? Gorton is looking into Toews no doubt, if not Toews than it'll be someone like Getzlaf at a much much cheaper price or ROR down the stretch.
 

bernmeister

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You don't need to explain anything to him....you state how you feel your opinion and that's it would be funny if tomorrow this just in ...........TSN REPORTS TOEWS TRADED FOR HALF CONTRACT STROME GEORGIEV KRATSOV NILS L. AND A FIRST ROUNDER LOL LOL......

That wouldn't be funny it would be tragic for NY.

Hysterical would be Hughes for Strome and two 2nds.
THAT has a better chance than NY dealing Krav, Nils, 1st, Geo +.
 

bernmeister

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That's why I feel Strome of Buchnevich would be heading the other way. More specifically Strome because with salary retention he's making about the same Toews would be. That's why it works. The argument that we wouldn't have ANY cap space is kind of drawn out. Toews contract would just replace Strome. And trust me Kakko and Fox are not getting 6+M right out the gate. We'd be cup contenders for the next 3 years maybe even longer with Toews in my opinion

bold is the flaw in your premise
NY is better off continuing to build
no part of an expensive contract during flat cap, retained or otherwise
deal Strome, Buch, Deangelo for futures
 

AirGut

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bold is the flaw in your premise
NY is better off continuing to build
no part of an expensive contract during flat cap, retained or otherwise
deal Strome, Buch, Deangelo for futures
Continuing to build for how long exactly? 2 more years? 3 more years? 4 or 5 more years? At some point my guy you stop building and you go forth with adding the players to get the job done. And people seem to forget by 2024 Panarin is 32 and Zibanejad is 31. The time to truly win is when you still have your young guns on ELC and on bridge deals. We aren't "building" anymore....we aren't going into next season wanting to pick in the top 15 again. The idea that we would gut our farm system to get Toews is ridiculous. Even after losing someone like a Kravtsov or a Lundkvist we're more than ok. Replacing Strome with a top end C at a cost controlled state is a priority for sure. Strome isn't staying here long term anyways
 
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BB88

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I don’t understand some of the Rangers proposals.
Like they need a superstat at every position
 

SRHRangers

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Could be the three seasons before that, the fact that he’ll be 32 or so, or the fact that players statistically generally decline from 30 on- or a combo of those things. If you wanna argue he’s an outlier, fine, but don’t act like it’s crazy to see his up-and-down play and think “he’ll end this contract on a down and not an up.”


I don't have crazy expectations for Toews. I just see him as the perfect 2C, at Rentention for a team that desperately needs his intangibles. You can't run out an entire team of newbies.

I'm just not like most of the people on this board that try to rip teams off. I know I would have to give to get, especially with the rentention.

Kravtsov would be a bitter pill to swallow, but it's more likely that he would never even match Toews last 2 seasons in the league. (Not a knock on Kravtsov, if he became a 25/60 players, he's definitely not a bust)
 
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horner

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They should have talked Chicago before they bought there goaltender the King.
 

BB88

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Toews isn't a superstar, that's not why the Rangers need him

For 2nd line he’d be top tier player

There’s no way Rangers cap can ever survive more big contracts with Panarin, Zib, Kakko, Laf, Fox, Shest core.
& yes I know few of them are still on elc today
 

SRHRangers

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For 2nd line he’d be top tier player

There’s no way Rangers cap can ever survive more big contracts with Panarin, Zib, Kakko, Laf, Fox, Shest core.
& yes I know few of them are still on elc today

It's why the deal breaker is 50% rentention.

Give up more to have a 5.25 mil 2nd line C than 10.5 mil.
 

AirGut

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For 2nd line he’d be top tier player

There’s no way Rangers cap can ever survive more big contracts with Panarin, Zib, Kakko, Laf, Fox, Shest core.
& yes I know few of them are still on elc today
Thing is you can say the exact same thing once Strome is extended. IF he's extended. Strome is bound to get anywhere from 6-7. If you can clock Toews in at that price point and replace Strome with Toews, that's a huge win. Kakko and Fox will not be getting big extensions and will mostly be bridge deals. For guys like Shesterkin and Laf it's really up for debate on what they COULD get. Even then, we got so much money coming off in the next year we can most definitely squeak everyone we need to be a cup contender. All the big teams do it and make it work......won't be any different for us. If it means moving on from guys like Buchnevich down the road so be it.
 

pld459666

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Maybe.....but if DeAngelo plays LD our top 4 is pretty set in stone and it's honestly not as bad as some people make it out to be. We have SO many defensive prospects in our crop. I'd more than willing to part ways with one for a guy like Toews. This team is instantly a much better overall club with Toews rounding out that top 6. And it confuses me to no end because all the people talking about wanting someone better than Strome and wanting Strome out would now magically be angry at a guy like Toews coming in and replacing him? Gorton is looking into Toews no doubt, if not Toews than it'll be someone like Getzlaf at a much much cheaper price or ROR down the stretch.

I don't think TDA playing LD helps us. I am not expecting anything good coming out of that.

Our D prospects are 2+ years from making any sort of impact. By the time we are really ready to go, Toews contract will be ending thus wasting 2 years of his presence.

Hes a great player, but not what this team needs today.

And for the record, I'm fine with Strome. I am not of the belief that anyone can have the same level of chemistry that he has with Panarin.
 

BKarchitect

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Toews would be a great #2 center for a ton of teams with aspirations these next few years...frankly these last couple of seasons he has 141 points in 152 games. That's solid first line production, not even second line. Even if his 60 in 70 last season is more realistic than his PPG in 2018-19 and even if his defensive game isn't what it once was, that's still a low-end first line center. And the dude is 32 not 35 or 36 - reports of his demise are great exaggerated but then again this is HF where players turn to zombies when they hit the 30 year mark. He'll be off the books before he turns into a skating corpse, he's not signed for 7 more years, just 3. Toews has become something of a meme at HF due to his ranking in that stupid NHL 100 list back in the day but that's really irrelevant.

It just comes down to that cap hit though...that $10.5 is just rough right now. So it all depends on how much salary the Hawks would be willing to eat or take back and how that affects the assets they receive back. Make no mistake - this is not a Schmidt-type dump from the Chicago view point. Toews is a legend there, can still play and I'm sure Chicago's preference is to re-tool with guys like Dach, Cat, Kubalik, Boqvist, etc while maintaining the Kane-Toews spine. Trading Toews isn't just a hockey move, it's a very drastic decision that really changes the entire dynamic of the franchise. They aren't going to dump him for nothing just to save cap space and they aren't going to eat a bunch of salary back to deal him for secondary parts.

So I guess the bottom line is yeah Toews would be a great add for a lot of teams - finding that cap balance with regards to a satisfactory return for Chicago given his importance to that franchise could be tricky.
 
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SRHRangers

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Toews would be a great #2 center for a ton of teams with aspirations these next few years...frankly these last couple of seasons he has 141 points in 152 games. That's solid first line production, not even second line. Even if his 60 in 70 last season is more realistic than his PPG in 2018-19 and even if his defensive game isn't what it once was, that's still a low-end first line center. And the dude is 32 not 35 or 36 - reports of his demise are great exaggerated but then again this is HF where players turn to zombies when they hit the 30 year mark. He'll be off the books before he turns into a skating corpse, he's not signed for 7 more years, just 3. Toews has become something of a meme at HF due to his ranking in that stupid NHL 100 list back in the day but that's really irrelevant.

It just comes down to that cap hit though...that $10.5 is just rough right now. So it all depends on how much salary the Hawks would be willing to eat or take back and how that affects the assets they receive back. Make no mistake - this is not a Schmidt-type dump from the Chicago view point. Toews is a legend there, can still play and I'm sure Chicago's preference is to re-tool with guys like Dach, Cat, Kubalik, Boqvist, etc while maintaining the Kane-Toews spine. Trading Toews isn't just a hockey move, it's a very drastic decision that really changes the entire dynamic of the franchise. They aren't going to dump him for nothing just to save cap space and they aren't going to eat a bunch of salary back to deal him for secondary parts.

Exactly why I would give to get.

He's definitely not finished.
 
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AirGut

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I don't think TDA playing LD helps us. I am not expecting anything good coming out of that.

Our D prospects are 2+ years from making any sort of impact. By the time we are really ready to go, Toews contract will be ending thus wasting 2 years of his presence.

Hes a great player, but not what this team needs today.

And for the record, I'm fine with Strome. I am not of the belief that anyone can have the same level of chemistry that he has with Panarin.

Miller maybe, Schneider most likely not, Robertson as well as Jones definitely not and if Lundkvist doesn't have a spot on this team in the next year he's walking as a UFA on July 1st, 2022 no doubt. We aren't waiting 2 more years to be "all ready to go". It's either we start making deep pushes in the next 2-3 years or we just wasted a lot of potential at actually winning a cup with a deeply talented cap controlled roster.


Toews would be a great #2 center for a ton of teams with aspirations these next few years...frankly these last couple of seasons he has 141 points in 152 games. That's solid first line production, not even second line. Even if his 60 in 70 last season is more realistic than his PPG in 2018-19 and even if his defensive game isn't what it once was, that's still a low-end first line center. And the dude is 32 not 35 or 36 - reports of his demise are great exaggerated but then again this is HF where players turn to zombies when they hit the 30 year mark. He'll be off the books before he turns into a skating corpse, he's not signed for 7 more years, just 3. Toews has become something of a meme at HF due to his ranking in that stupid NHL 100 list back in the day but that's really irrelevant.

It just comes down to that cap hit though...that $10.5 is just rough right now. So it all depends on how much salary the Hawks would be willing to eat or take back and how that affects the assets they receive back. Make no mistake - this is not a Schmidt-type dump from the Chicago view point. Toews is a legend there, can still play and I'm sure Chicago's preference is to re-tool with guys like Dach, Cat, Kubalik, Boqvist, etc while maintaining the Kane-Toews spine. Trading Toews isn't just a hockey move, it's a very drastic decision that really changes the entire dynamic of the franchise. They aren't going to dump him for nothing just to save cap space and they aren't going to eat a bunch of salary back to deal him for secondary parts.

The Hawks cannot expect to just sign Euros like Kubalik all the time and have them pan out or expect teener picks to become ready by the time Toews contract is up. Bowman knows this, it's either trade him when you can get something back for him or he leaves in 3 years. He isn't staying in Chicago.....that's a dream at this point. The guys listed are all real good young pieces they already have especially Dach. Dach is your 1C sooner rather than later. So why would Bowman announce a full rebuild now and NOT trade a guy like Toews? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They aren't moving Kane as he's still a top echelon player and will be by the time they do eventually get good again but Toews isn't Kane and if your a GM I'd think you're smart enough to realize you aren't gonna get any concrete picks or prospects/young assets by moving JUST Keith. Toews is the odd man out. It's time to move on from him now
 

thesaadfather

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Miller maybe, Schneider most likely not, Robertson as well as Jones definitely not and if Lundkvist doesn't have a spot on this team in the next year he's walking as a UFA on July 1st, 2022 no doubt. We aren't waiting 2 more years to be "all ready to go". It's either we start making deep pushes in the next 2-3 years or we just wasted a lot of potential at actually winning a cup with a deeply talented cap controlled roster.




The Hawks cannot expect to just sign Euros like Kubalik all the time and have them pan out or expect teener picks to become ready by the time Toews contract is up. Bowman knows this, it's either trade him when you can get something back for him or he leaves in 3 years. He isn't staying in Chicago.....that's a dream at this point. The guys listed are all real good young pieces they already have especially Dach. Dach is your 1C sooner rather than later. So why would Bowman announce a full rebuild now and NOT trade a guy like Toews? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. They aren't moving Kane as he's still a top echelon player and will be by the time they do eventually get good again but Toews isn't Kane and if your a GM I'd think you're smart enough to realize you aren't gonna get any concrete picks or prospects/young assets by moving JUST Keith. Toews is the odd man out. It's time to move on from him now
Bowman has said that they aren’t tearing it all down. They’re letting the young guys play and not going out to acquire older guys and contracts that limit their cap flexibility. It doesn’t matter, though. The core 4 all have NMCs, and reputable sources have all said that Toews and Kane want to stay in Chicago.
 

AirGut

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Bowman has said that they aren’t tearing it all down. They’re letting the young guys play and not going out to acquire older guys and contracts that limit their cap flexibility. It doesn’t matter, though. The core 4 all have NMCs, and reputable sources have all said that Toews and Kane want to stay in Chicago.

Exactly they are going to get younger and acquire more young assets to fill the team. You can't do that if you don't move one of Kane, Toews, or Keith. You just can't, not in todays NHL. They're gonna have to make a choice and I have that 95% gut feeling it's Toews. He'll net them a return that puts that franchise forward instead of hanging on to a veteran and losing him for nothing. And you're not trading Kane nor are you gonna even begin to get a decent sized return for a 37 year old Keith. Like I said Toews is the odd man out in this. But you are right, it's fully up to Toews himself...I just really don't think he wants to stay for the rest of his career. He wants to win again, he wants to compete and in 3 years when he's a ufa I don't think Chicago will be competing in any sense of the word just yet. Trading Toews and Keith isn't tearing it down, they still have a reputable roster to build around without them but you can't begin building further if you don't move on from them is my point. I know what he means to CHI, but that's why there is a letter out now. You don't publish that and do absolutely nothing going forward as a rebuilding club. Bowman and company are grooming the fans for decent heartbreak
 

BKarchitect

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Trading Toews right now just to get out from him as a high priced vet is a mistake. Dach is great but not a top center yet he’s a teenager. Toews is the perfect veteran mentor to insulate his minutes. Unless he’s actually clamoring to leave (and being sad because Crawford and Saad are gone is not the same as demanding a trade) or unless you are making an appealing hockey trade why not just keep Toews for 3 more years at which point Dach should be a #1 franchise center and then just let a 35 year old Toews walk?

Just stockpiling assets is not franchise building. We have seen time and time again what happens when you put too much on young players to early. I'm not saying don't ever trade Toews, I'm saying you better be getting something that can help you both now and in the future back. Dach should not be relied upon to carry the load yet.
 

SRHRangers

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Trading Toews right now just to get out from him as a high priced vet is a mistake. Dach is great but not a top center yet he’s a teenager. Toews is the perfect veteran mentor to insulate his minutes. Unless he’s actually clamoring to leave (and being sad because Crawford and Saad are gone is not the same as demanding a trade) or unless you are making an appealing hockey trade why not just keep Toews for 3 more years at which point Dach should be a #1 franchise center and then just let a 35 year old Toews walk?

Just stockpiling assets is not franchise building. We have seen time and time again what happens when you put too much on young players to early. I'm not saying don't ever trade Toews, I'm saying you better be getting something that can help you both now and in the future back. Dach should not be relied upon to carry the load yet.


Nor should the Blackhawks deal him for that reason.

Same with Keith. I actually think he would bring a big haul back from the right contending team.

I just believe Toews is such a fit for the Rangers in more ways than just his play. Because of that, I would pay. (As long as I get the rentention)
 

BKarchitect

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Yeah I'm not saying anything offered in this thread from the Rangers is bad or not worth it, I'm sure the Rangers can make an appealing offer if they chose to do so and could make the cap math work for their future. Just that I think simply dealing Toews is an awfully tricky proposition for the Blackhawks and a much bigger identity question than simply "let's get younger".
 

Aurinko

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Rangers have a good thing going on: a great rebuild EVEN without the redonkylous draft luck.

Even with 50% retention, I don't think Rangers should be interested.
 

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