News Article: Joe Veleno

[ricky0034]

No one is sitting around crapping on Mantha for his junior production, they **** talk his effort.

and honestly even still Mantha has produced at just under a 50 point pace the past few seasons

i'd be pretty happy if Veleno could be a consistent ~40 point Center

 

[rawraw]

I'm very excited about Veleno, maybe moreso than most members on this forum, but Mantha had a better D+1 season and look at how much he gets crapped on.

Isn't Mantha getting crapped on for the same things he got criticized for in his draft year?
Not always engaging, not moving his feets enough, work ethic etc. He has improved in some areas, but mostly it's pretty much the same criticism.
I don't see Veleno having the same issues. He has the skill level and work ethic. He has more intangibles, if you will, compared to Mantha.
He has to gain experience at the pro level and the rest will come along, imho.

 

[lilidk]

and honestly even still Mantha has produced at just under a 50 point pace the past few seasons

i'd be pretty happy if Veleno could be a consistent ~40 point Center

Difference between Mantha ,first or second line winger and Veleno, center, who can play any other then defense position on the team huge. Veleno will be solid like Larkin or solid like Glendenning. We don't know now , but he will be useful for red wings

 

[Gniwder]

and honestly even still Mantha has produced at just under a 50 point pace the past few seasons

i'd be pretty happy if Veleno could be a consistent ~40 point Center

I'm pretty sure you'll be happy... in about 4 years though.

I'm projecting him to be similar to Mike Ribiero but without the mental issues, hopefully a 2C, worst case 3C. (Also depends on who we pick this year, obviously...)

 

[Reddwit]

I'm pretty sure you'll be happy... in about 4 years though.

I'm projecting him to be similar to Mike Ribiero but without the mental issues, hopefully a 2C, worst case 3C. (Also depends on who we pick this year, obviously...)

That is a very bizarre comparison. Ribeiro was actually a bona fide 2C for all but his acclimation period and over-the-hill downfall. In fact, he was statistically a weak 1C for like half his prime - 4 or 5 seasons, really. But he was also a one-dimensional, offense-only player with questionable character long before his mental/addiction issues were outed. Didn't PK, was terrible in the faceoff dot, and had the physique of a twig.

Honestly, if it weren't for you mentioning the mental issues, I'd have sworn you actually meant to say Mike Fisher - a guy I've seen as a good comparable for JV for some time.

 

[Reddwit]

I'm very excited about Veleno, maybe moreso than most members on this forum, but Mantha had a better D+1 season and look at how much he gets crapped on.

I'm not sure that comparison is very relevant. Mantha and Veleno don't play the same style of game and they didn't have the same roles on their respective teams. Mantha also was +34 to Veleno's +63 and, interestingly, the difference in production can be attributed entirely to the PP: Mantha and Veleno both put up 76 ES points.

Mantha also didn't necessarily do anything in his D+1 year to assuage draft concerns (consistency, work ethic, whether his age/size advantage was significant). Veleno, on the other hand, fell because of questions about his overall skill level. He had the complete game, the physique, the work ethic, the leadership and character - but did he have the skill? The vision? The shot? He responds by leading the Q in ppg among guys who played half the season or more. That's what makes his D+1 year exciting.

 

[Gniwder]

That is a very bizarre comparison. Ribeiro was actually a bona fide 2C for all but his acclimation period and over-the-hill downfall. In fact, he was statistically a weak 1C for like half his prime - 4 or 5 seasons, really. But he was also a one-dimensional, offense-only player with questionable character long before his mental/addiction issues were outed. Didn't PK, was terrible in the faceoff dot, and had the physique of a twig.

Honestly, if it weren't for you mentioning the mental issues, I'd have sworn you actually meant to say Mike Fisher - a guy I've seen as a good comparable for JV for some time.

He was a twig, but Veleno isn't big yet either (though hopefully he bulks up). He sucked on the FO (as a consequence of his twigieness), but Ribeiro actually had 4 Selke votes with the Stars, and had over 100 PK minutes in 09-10 plus 2 career shorties. Last 4 seasons with the Stars he averaged about 1 min per game on PK.

Not comparing character at all (Ribs was a complete nut case), but offensive style is similar.

Maybe Fisher is a better comparison, but I didn't watch a whole lot of Ottawa games back when he was in his prime.

 

[Konnan511]

I'm hoping Veleno turns into a peak Filppula who hopefully shoots a little bit more out of the get-go. Great zone entries, great defensive skills, good puck skills, and good speed with acceleration. I'm hoping with his added size, Veleno will go to the net more like in the season where Filppula almost netted 70 points.

 

[Reddwit]

He was a twig, but Veleno isn't big yet either (though hopefully he bulks up). He sucked on the FO (as a consequence of his twigieness), but Ribeiro actually had 4 Selke votes with the Stars, and had over 100 PK minutes in 09-10 plus 2 career shorties. Last 4 seasons with the Stars he averaged about 1 min per game on PK.

Not comparing character at all (Ribs was a complete nut case), but offensive style is similar.

Maybe Fisher is a better comparison, but I didn't watch a whole lot of Ottawa games back when he was in his prime.

Yes, in a year where he played 1:37 total on the PK, went 45% on FOs, and was 3rd in the NHL for giveaways (80th for takeaways), there were a few half-baked hockey writers who gave Ribeiro 4 Selke votes - enough to land him 53rd in Selke voting with 0.30% of the vote. (Fun fact: he was 5th in Selke votes on his own team. )

But to be fair, the fact that he was ever a true PKer is news to me. Although looking further explains a lot. He only played the PK once Dallas started to suck and even then was the 6th-8th PKer among regular forwards, save for one year, but that year coincided with the beginning of the end for Modano and Lehtinen and was never replicated again. In fact, the only time he was ever used on the PK was in Dallas during their franchise turnover.

Either way, Ribeiro wasn't defensively relevant until his late 20s and even then it was the product of being on a team in free-fall.

As for size, Ribeiro was last listed at 179 and even that seems favorable. He looked like a Gumby-fied version of Johnny Gaudreau in his prime. Veleno turned 19 a couple months ago and is already 194 at 6'1". Thats McDavid/Stamkos size already and he'll bulk a bit naturally just by nature of how young he still is.

 

[Gniwder]

Yes, in a year where he played 1:37 total on the PK, went 45% on FOs, and was 3rd in the NHL for giveaways (80th for takeaways), there were a few half-baked hockey writers who gave Ribeiro 4 Selke votes - enough to land him 53rd in Selke voting with 0.30% of the vote. (Fun fact: he was 5th in Selke votes on his own team. )

But to be fair, the fact that he was ever a true PKer is news to me. Although looking further explains a lot. He only played the PK once Dallas started to suck and even then was the 6th-8th PKer among regular forwards, save for one year, but that year coincided with the beginning of the end for Modano and Lehtinen and was never replicated again. In fact, the only time he was ever used on the PK was in Dallas during their franchise turnover.

Either way, Ribeiro wasn't defensively relevant until his late 20s and even then it was the product of being on a team in free-fall.

As for size, Ribeiro was last listed at 179 and even that seems favorable. He looked like a Gumby-fied version of Johnny Gaudreau in his prime. Veleno turned 19 a couple months ago and is already 194 at 6'1". Thats McDavid/Stamkos size already and he'll bulk a bit naturally just by nature of how young he still is.

I can't find the numbers but I'm pretty sure Ribs lost weight over his career due to substance abuse, certainly by the time he played for the Preds. Just compare team photos (Stars/Caps/Preds). He was a pretty good player in his prime regardless.

Suck is a relative term, they weren't anywhere close to the dumpster fire that the Wings are now. They missed the 2011 playoffs by 2 points, and Modano/Lehtinen were well past their prime before Ribs got there. Even if a team sucks, you don't put a guy out there to PK unless he can actually do it. Look at our team.

 

[Reddwit]

I can't find the numbers but I'm pretty sure Ribs lost weight over his career due to substance abuse, certainly by the time he played for the Preds. Just compare team photos (Stars/Caps/Preds). He was a pretty good player in his prime regardless.

I don't need to look at the photos. I watched the games when he was a Hab and a Star. He always looked like he was swimming in his gear. But just to confirm, google Ribeiro and you'll come across his hockey card from 02-03. He's listed at 6'0, 170.

Suck is a relative term, they weren't anywhere close to the dumpster fire that the Wings are now. They missed the 2011 playoffs by 2 points, and Modano/Lehtinen were well past their prime before Ribs got there. Even if a team sucks, you don't put a guy out there to PK unless he can actually do it. Look at our team.

Agreed. Suck is a relative term. It matters how you suck and where your weaknesses are. Dallas didn't suck when Ribeiro wasn't on the PK. In fact, in 07-08, when Ribeiro wasn't even a consideration for the PK, Dallas' PK was 2nd in the league. By 08-09, when Dallas lost their top 3 PKers from the year before and lost other PKers to injury for large chunks of the season, they resorted to the likes of Ribeiro to supplement their PK. It dropped to 23rd in the league. The following year, when Ribeiro was at his max usage as a PKer - 4th forward on the team - Dallas' PK bottomed out at 27th. That off-season, they incorporated some new faces to the PK, relegated Ribeiro to 7th/8th, and the PK climbed modestly to 23rd. Again, the following year, Ribeiro was at best the 7th forward option and the PK climbed to 13th. He wasn't used as a Peer on any team after that. For the most part when Dallas was a non-playoff team, they weren't short on skilled options. Richard was a hell of a guy to lead the way. Unfortunately, the team make up was poorly built overall, particularly lacking with healthy and experienced two-way forwards.

And you're right. Modano/Lehtinen were past their prime before Ribs got there. Yet they were still being used ahead of Ribeiro on the PK until they were really on their last legs.

Even if a team sucks, you don't put a guy out there to PK unless he can actually do it. Look at our team.

Look at our team? You mean the team whose only real strength is their glut of forwards whose only above average skill is being defensively competent? That team?

I think you underestimate the Wings stability in terms of two-ways forwards over the years. There are some real gems who have seen substantial PK time on teams going through rough stretches. Purcell, Penner, and Eberle in Edmonton, Spezza in Ottawa, Kovalchuk in New Jersey, Robert Lang in Chicago. Its not hard to find examples when it comes to bad teams who are offense-heavy.

 

[Gniwder]

… and Fisher's listed at 180 on his rookie card. Plus with all these defensive forwards, the Wings are near the bottom in team PK%, there's more to it than just the forwards.

I'm hoping Veleno tops out at Ribiero level offensively, not at Fisher's level. That's all. Similar stats in the Q, similar style of play offensively. I've only watched highlights, so I have no idea how Veleno does defensively anyways, and that (defense) wasn't the comparison I was making. They don't show defensive play in highlights.

You sound like a pissed off Preds fan, yeah I get that Ribs didn't do much there but he had some offensive talent before he started smoking crack (or whatever). In any case, we're getting off topic

 

[YpsiWings]

I'm hoping Veleno turns into a peak Filppula who hopefully shoots a little bit more out of the get-go. Great zone entries, great defensive skills, good puck skills, and good speed with acceleration. I'm hoping with his added size, Veleno will go to the net more like in the season where Filppula almost netted 70 points.

Veleno is a better skater, don’t love that comparison. I think it is hard to compare this kid to anyone because his career path is so unique. I do know that if he can be 2C behind Larkin this rebuild just hit 88 MPH.

 

[DetroitRed]

I hate the thought of selling him short, but I'm hoping once Veleno is established in the NHL beyond his rookie season, he'll be in the 50-55 points per season range, maybe even 60. So...just in terms of point production, slightly favorable to a Tatar or a Nyquist. That's my guess just based on what he's doing now.

 

[Mister Ed]

By using this chart, Veleno should be around a 26 point player in his 1st NHL year, which is a little bit more than Rasmussen had this year. I hope he can translate into a solid 2-way player with 55 pts potential.

 

[Hen Kolland]

By using this chart, Veleno should be around a 26 point player in his 1st NHL year, which is a little bit more than Rasmussen had this year. I hope he can translate into a solid 2-way player with 55 pts potential.

This is dated a little bit. They released updated translation factors in April 2018. The Q improved to 0.284. Extrapolate Veleno's stats over 82 games in the Q and he'd be at roughly 144-145 points, which puts him at 41 points at the NHL level for a full season.

Don't think it's realistic, but that's what the current translation factors would suggest.

 

[ignition16]

By using this chart, Veleno should be around a 26 point player in his 1st NHL year, which is a little bit more than Rasmussen had this year. I hope he can translate into a solid 2-way player with 55 pts potential.

The translation factors are based off PPG rates, so Veleno's would be 1.76 PPG * .25 factor * 82 game season. This comes out to roughly 36 points. These are of course just based on long term averages of all players, but it certainly shows that Veleno has had a strong year in the Q as a 18/19 year old player. I'd say a 55-60 point 2-way center is a reasonable hope at this point for 4 to 5 years down the road once he's established himself.

 

[Konnan511]

The translation factors are based off PPG rates, so Veleno's would be 1.76 PPG * .25 factor * 82 game season. This comes out to roughly 36 points. These are of course just based on long term averages of all players, but it certainly shows that Veleno has had a strong year in the Q as a 18/19 year old player. I'd say a 55-60 point 2-way center is a reasonable hope at this point for 4 to 5 years down the road once he's established himself.

So a Patrice Bergeron-lite?

 

[Shaman464]

So a Patrice Bergeron-lite?

More like a Toews-lite.

 

[lhsgolf19]

Veleno with a Goal and Assist tonight in a 7-4 DRU win in Game 3... 6 Points in 3 Games... They are now up 3-0, Game 4 tomorrow night

 

[RedWingzz]

Veleno with a Goal and Assist tonight in a 7-4 DRU win in Game 3... 6 Points in 3 Games... They are now up 3-0, Game 4 tomorrow night

I literally was glued to him every shift. A few observations about him:

1) Skating- He is definitely a good skater, and when he gets going he moves quickly. I think there is room to improve in terms of his acceleration and explosiveness. He was one of the better skaters on the ice, but there were some kids who were much quicker out there. (this undrafted Felix Lauzon kid caught my eye every time he was on the ice).

2) His vision, as we all know, is obviously a strong point of his game. He anticipates the play well, and is always looking around him and checking before he makes a play. I find it laughable that some people say he doesn't have the high-end offensive ability to produce in the NHL. Obviously the Q is a different league, but he was easily the smartest player on the ice with his decision making.

3) He was competing hard, and looks like he wants to be the go to guy out there, which is a positive sign. Hopefully this attitude can translate to the NHL. He was working hard, and whenever Gatineau made it interesting, he was out there pushing the pace.

Overall I was impressed, but there is definitely more there. I wouldn't say he was absolutely unbelievable out there, but you can see the potential. I'm excited to see what he can do tonight.

The game got insanely chippy in the 3rd, so I'm curious to see if it boils over to today. The fans in Gatineau were nuts...some weird people there, like a guy wearing a bedsheet the whole time standing behind Morrone (dmdville goalie last night) and a guy, who was easily 12 beers deep, wearing a werewolf mask. Interesting atmosphere to say the least lol.

Final note, Comtois is a beast, but needs to settle down out there. At one point when he was in the box (for one of his 4 or 5 penalties) he was being chirped hard by the fans, so he grabs a water bottle and started to spray the fans. For a second I thought I was going to see Comtois pummel some drunken fans, but unfortunately that didn't happen.

 

[RedWingzz]

I know he was held off the scoresheet, but man does he have incredible vision and on-ice awareness. He could have had 4 assists last night if his line mates could bury. They outshot Gatineau something like 50-19, but couldn't score. He needs to shoot more, but you can tell that he loves making the creative play in the offensive zone and then dishing it to a teammate. Even though he didn't light it up in the 2 games, I saw enough to tell me that he is going to be an offensive contributor in the NHL. He's at worst, a 2nd liner in the NHL, who will get tons of PP time as well.

 

[Ezekial]

More like a Toews-lite.

Toews has the higher ppg for their careers.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Toews has the higher ppg for their careers.

I'd rather have a Bergeron though. He's aged like a fine wine. It's remarkable how damn good he is at everything.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

So a Patrice Bergeron-lite?

That's not Patrice Bergeron lite. That's Patrice Bergeron. 55-60 points and stellar 2-way play. Patrice Bergeron lite would be the defensive play but like 45 points.