Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by BinCookin, Nov 19, 2018.
Taking Flight - From the 'Q' to the 'D'
Nice to hear what a young players thoughts are on things and where they stand, pretty cool!
The improvement he’s made in his shot since last season is very exciting.
It started really hot, but he's cooled a lot in the last few games to a pretty pedestrian scoring rate. It'll be interesting to see how his stats look at the end of the season, but if he's at a 1.35 ppg he would be the exact type of player a lot of teams thought he was.
He had four assists last game, three of which were primary.
It is not just about ppg, but rather the development of his overall game. He wasn't draft with the idea he was our future 1c. He was drafted because he has the tools to be an excellent overall center (2c/3c).
He's also been in the Q forever, is on a top 5 team, and is D+1. Even offensive slouches tend to score a lot in the Q relative to the O and W, and the opportunity cost is more important than anything else here. The team is still a lottery team coming into this season, with a center heavy draft coming up, and drafted a guy who looks to be a bottom to middle 6 center over loading up on D prospects in a D heavy year. Unless he pans out to be a #1 center, he was the wrong pick, because you can always find middle 6 centers, but as every Detroit fan should know, defenders are worth their weight in gold.
The OHL has had more 100 point scorers with similar games played in each of the last 4 seasons. Not much different from top to bottom. All 3 leagues are pretty comparable now.
I think our defense prospect pool is greater than most will give it credit for today. Cholowski has shown the ability to grow into the LD1 position. Hronek, Lindstrom, and McIsaac continue to show promise. Saarijarvi, Kotkansalo, and Regula are still developing.
We still need a RD1, but none were on the board at 30.
Our glaring need is in the middle. I would not take any defenseman taken after JV instead of JV.
Controversial opinion time, everyone ready?
I think McIsaac will end up as the best player taken by the Red Wings in the 2018 draft. I'm not so sure about the rest of the guys you listed, but I think McIsaac was drafted remarkably low for his skill level as a defender. He and Cholowski are going to be very good for us, but again I dunno about the other guys haven't seen enough play.
Individual seasons aside I can’t wait until we can Zadina with Veleno some more. I think those two are going to go together like peanut butter and jelly.
Do you watch the mooseheads often? I find it incredibly hard to believe he will be better than Zadina.
I did say it would be controversial...
No I don't watch them that often, friend of mine who's a scout in the Islanders organization told me he thought McI was REALLY good over a year ago. Low and behold we draft him and now he's lighting up the Q. So I'm a fan.
I thought he was just as good as Zadina from what I seen of them in camp.
I think it was a good year to pluck from the Q, thought a bunch of guys were being undervalued.
Veleno will help so much with zone entries and play in the neutral zone
We could really use another guy to help with zone entries, especially if we end up trading Nyquist and/or AA.
the Q was the lowest scoring of the 3 last year
The Q doesn't draw from quite the same talent pool. I also think the bigger problem for the Q has always been they lose Eastern kids in their area to college hockey and prep hockey at a huge rate. As California and Washington have developed more prospects the W has benefited along with actually finding ways to get kids out of Minnesota long a hurdle. Still doesn't happen all the time, but it happens more these days in my opinion. The OHL has benefited from the jump in quality in Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, Pittsburgh and Michigan kids turning that route more and more. I think it is the dynamics of where they draw from.One of the funniest parts is the southern expansion has helped the CHL, not that I expect Don Cherry to start touting it, but they have benefited from some of those kids coming north to their junior league as well.
But at times the Q has been undervalued. They still do have plenty of talent. The Wings as a scouting staff has always really been featuring and focusing on areas that are undervalued. So it doesn't surprise me that they have mined the Q often for the last decade, sometimes with success and some other notable misses. But I think that is one thing the Wings have done since Devellano took over, they are always looking at areas where other teams aren't paying as close of attention. Yeah Russia was a boon. But we now heavily scout Czech and Slovak hockey when other teams are saying it is down. It is interesting, but it happens with a frequency that I don't think it is an accident. While yes the scouting world has shrunk with technology and resources being used by all NHL teams, there are still things to be gained by being a little harder invested in certain areas.
I think Veleno is an example of while every scout expected more offense or more this, they have liked the progression in his game. They had an idea of the areas they didn't like in it and how he could work at it. One of the more stunning things and Veleno didn't elaborate a ton in this article, but they basically said he was wasting energy and not skating efficiently. Even though it was one of his strengths they had issues with it and thought it could be a lot better.
Veleno is exciting to me, because he is a high character worker like a lot of the guys we have been betting on but he has a good platform to start with. I find it easier to buy in on this type of prospect, I see why the Wings like them. Talking about character and the off the ice stuff annoys people at times, but it is paying off with Cholo, Ras and of course Larkin. Most of his concerning areas are areas that traditionally get better as you go along and I think we can count on Veleno putting in the work. He has been good when I have caught the rare game with him in it this year.
Edit: NM. Everyone said this already. The Q is oddly low scoring now.
Im excited about both Veleno and Zadina. But they're both gonna be considered passengers once McIsaac comes online.
How are basing your opinion of which something that is based on what your friend telling you?
I don’t understand how you believe Veleno and Zadina will be worse (sorry, passengers) if you’ve barely watched them play.
Not all players dominate in juniors though. I mean Yzerman's numbers in the OHL were nothing special. Sometimes players transition better into the better league when they didn't dominate the league below it.
I will say that would be amazing so long as McIssac become a top pairing guy as a #4 would mean all three disapoint and that would just be bad for us in so many ways.
What makes you say this?
I personally like Valeno the most as I always prefer the cerebral players at 18 over those who dominate simply thru raw natural physical gifts.
I think Valenos understanding of the game is going to carry him the furthest as any weaknesses can easily be worked on and improved upon
I'm really curious to see what Veleno becomes. I still think at worst he's a contributing 40-50 point 2nd line center.
I haven't watched Veleno much at all, but I've watched Zadina a bunch. Veleno was projected to be drafted later than Zadina and slipped further on draft day... so I'm assuming he's worse than Zadina. If I'm wrong let me know.
McIsaac is really good. Like really good. Top pairing material. Don't let the 2nd round fool you, Shea Weber and many other great Dmen were drafted in the 2nd round as well.
I actually really agree with you. I haven't watched Veleno much at all so I don't have a good opinion on him yet... but my understanding is he's more of a cerebral playmaking see the ice gud type guy. I think these type of players are more essential to a team than Zadina types.
I mentioned earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread) that I have a friend who works for the Islanders organization and that he hyped me up on McIsaac before we even drafted him. Was thrilled when we landed him on draft day. Check out his stats in the Q so far this year. He's lighting that house on fire. Kids gonna be real good. I'm a big fan.
Why would McIssac being a #4 disappoint as a 2nd rounder?
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