News Article: Joe Veleno

[Hen Kolland]

That's not Patrice Bergeron lite. That's Patrice Bergeron. 55-60 points and stellar 2-way play. Patrice Bergeron lite would be the defensive play but like 45 points.

I think you are underselling Bergeron. Over his last 4 seasons he is running a 82 game average of roughly 33 goals and 42 assists for 75 points. While winning about 58% of faceoffs, and maintaining a Corsi of 58%. He is a shut down two way center who can pot 30+ goals and should be able to log in at a point per game in full season. As good as he is, I still think he is underrated.

Bergeron's peak has been my high water mark hopes for Larkin. Larkin looks like he will be able to hit the offensive end without issue, but he needs to work on discipline and can still improve defensively.

For me, I think Veleno will make his mark more offensive than he will defensive. I don't view Veleno as a shut down candidate right now, I think we are dealing with a high IQ center who knows where to position himself and has the "give-a-damn" to be proactive on both ends of the ice. Offensively, I think the skill is there, and I will fully admit I'm more on board the hype train than most, but I think the name I would throw out as a lite comparable would be Barkov. Plus hands and puckhandling, really makes his money with his hockey sense and vision as a playmaker. I think the main difference is Veleno will be a more dynamic skater (speed and agility), whereas Barkov has more of a power style of play. Again, not going to say that Veleno will be at the level of Barkov, but a player who is known for primarily the same methods of production with different physical traits to get it done. I have no issue with saying Veleno could be a 50-60 point guy in the future. Could be more, could obviously be less.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think you are underselling Bergeron. Over his last 4 seasons he is running a 82 game average of roughly 33 goals and 42 assists for 75 points. While winning about 58% of faceoffs, and maintaining a Corsi of 58%. He is a shut down two way center who can pot 30+ goals and should be able to log in at a point per game in full season. As good as he is, I still think he is underrated.

Bergeron's peak has been my high water mark hopes for Larkin. Larkin looks like he will be able to hit the offensive end without issue, but he needs to work on discipline and can still improve defensively.

For me, I think Veleno will make his mark more offensive than he will defensive. I don't view Veleno as a shut down candidate right now, I think we are dealing with a high IQ center who knows where to position himself and has the "give-a-damn" to be proactive on both ends of the ice. Offensively, I think the skill is there, and I will fully admit I'm more on board the hype train than most, but I think the name I would throw out as a lite comparable would be Barkov. Plus hands and puckhandling, really makes his money with his hockey sense and vision as a playmaker. I think the main difference is Veleno will be a more dynamic skater (speed and agility), whereas Barkov has more of a power style of play. Again, not going to say that Veleno will be at the level of Barkov, but a player who is known for primarily the same methods of production with different physical traits to get it done. I have no issue with saying Veleno could be a 50-60 point guy in the future. Could be more, could obviously be less.

I think Sasha Barkov is a better player than Bergeron. It is close but I think we are beginning to see it. He was always compared favorably to Kopitar and for once I think a player for player has pretty much hit on the nose.

Hey I hope Veleno and Larkin can become that, but I guess I take issue with Barkov being listed there keep in mind I think he and Bergeron both landed in the top 10 in players to build your franchise around in the NHLPA poll. Barkov is a monster and perennial selke guy so that comparison confuses me.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I think Sasha Barkov is a better player than Bergeron. It is close but I think we are beginning to see it. He was always compared favorably to Kopitar and for once I think a player for player has pretty much hit on the nose.

Hey I hope Veleno and Larkin can become that, but I guess I take issue with Barkov being listed there keep in mind I think he and Bergeron both landed in the top 10 in players to build your franchise around in the NHLPA poll. Barkov is a monster and perennial selke guy so that comparison confuses me.

I cannot stress enough that it's a Barkov-lite comparison. I have zero expectation that Veleno will scratch the surface of that level; I sure as hell hope he does, but it's obvious how unlikely it is.

And I agree that Barkov is better than Bergeron, but I don't think they play the same style of game which was the ultimate talking point. I think what Barkov brings overlaps with what Bergeron brings, but I believe Barkov leans primarily offensive with strong defensive habits while Bergeron leans primarily defensive with strong offensive offerings. The result is an elite playmaking center who can match up with any opponent without concern vs. an elite shutdown center who can score against any opponent. I think Veleno exemplifies the qualities that make him a prospect under the former category, minus the "elite" descriptor of course.

 

[Ezekial]

I'd rather have a Bergeron though. He's aged like a fine wine. It's remarkable how damn good he is at everything.

Just saying, he highlighted his the 55-60 point total and said it was more like Toews. Toews averages 71 points per season based on ppg, Berggy 65. Patrice got 2 ppg players on his wings and he turned into a ppg+ player.

 

[BinCookin]

^^ Comparing any prospect to an NHL top line player is dangerous.

Larkin is at least an NHL player, and comparing him to another player and possible ceiling is at least reasonable.

To be honest there is no garauntee that Veleno even plays 100-200 NHL Games at this point.
Lets try not to put lofty expectations on him.

However, I am very pleased with our 30th OA pick at this point!!

 

[Hen Kolland]

^^ Comparing any prospect to an NHL top line player is dangerous.

Larkin is at least an NHL player, and comparing him to another player and possible ceiling is at least reasonable.

To be honest there is no garauntee that Veleno even plays 100-200 NHL Games at this point.
Lets try not to put lofty expectations on him.

However, I am very pleased with our 30th OA pick at this point!!

There's no guarantee that Zadina plays 100 games, but a good deal of people are confident that he is NHL ready next year. Veleno at this point, barring injury, should stumble his way into 100+ games minimum based on testing the waters alone.

And obviously any expectation is done so with a great deal of caution and a lot of assumed progression and successful transition. If a prospect burns out without so much as a whimper, I'd be disappointed he didn't stick, but I wouldn't say that I would be shocked.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

^^ Comparing any prospect to an NHL top line player is dangerous.

Larkin is at least an NHL player, and comparing him to another player and possible ceiling is at least reasonable.

To be honest there is no garauntee that Veleno even plays 100-200 NHL Games at this point.
Lets try not to put lofty expectations on him.

However, I am very pleased with our 30th OA pick at this point!!

Barring a major injury or sudden death, Veleno is a lock to play 200+ games in the NHL....

 

[The Zermanator]

Barring a major injury or sudden death, Veleno is a lock to play 200+ games in the NHL....

How so?

 

[Hen Kolland]

How so?

Because teams aren't going to quit on a player who were first round draft picks and had as promising of a season as Veleno has had. The same reason that Svechnikov will get his chance somewhere. Even if he gets waived next year, a team will claim him and give him a chance, despite serious injury history.

 

[The Zermanator]

Because teams aren't going to quit on a player who were first round draft picks and had as promising of a season as Veleno has had. The same reason that Svechnikov will get his chance somewhere. Even if he gets waived next year, a team will claim him and give him a chance, despite serious injury history.

Svechnikov is 22 and has played a whopping 16 games in the NHL. 200 games is a lot and most players don't end up playing even that.

I have high hopes for Veleno and he's been exceptional so far, but I think it's really premature to call him a lock when he hasn't played an NHL game.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Svechnikov is 22 and has played a whopping 16 games in the NHL. 200 games is a lot and most players don't end up playing even that.

I have high hopes for Veleno and he's been exceptional so far, but I think it's really premature to call him a lock when he hasn't played an NHL game.

You are ignoring why Svechnikov hasn’t played more than 16 games. He was 21 to start the season, tore his ACL. The year prior he was 20 to start the season and correct me if I’m wrong but he also started the season in GR coming off an injury.

 

[The Zermanator]

You are ignoring why Svechnikov hasn’t played more than 16 games. He was 21 to start the season, tore his ACL. The year prior he was 20 to start the season and correct me if I’m wrong but he also started the season in GR coming off an injury.

Most of that would have been AHL so still not anywhere near 200 games.

EDIT: Most players never cross 100 games.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Most of that would have been AHL so still not anywhere near 200 games.

EDIT: Most players never cross 100 games.

So Svechnikov will have to be in the NHL next year or clear waivers. If he is placed on waivers, he will be claimed and have to be in the NHL with whoever claims him. If he stays in Detroit, there's a good to fair chance that we will be given plenty of opportunity to establish a role. Look at Rasmussen this year. 62 games played and will miss a handful with an injury. No injury he's approaching 70. What is 70 games for Svechnikov? Puts him at 86, which is approaching the 100 game mark.

My point is the same as the first one I made, which was 100 games by the way. Picks who show promise, especially ones selected in the first round will usually be granted 100 games to test the waters.

 

[Oddbob]

Most of that would have been AHL so still not anywhere near 200 games.

EDIT: Most players never cross 100 games.

Svech is injured for most of his pro career at this point, which is why he has not seen a lot of games. Jakub Kindl played over 300 games almost exclusively because he was a 1st round pick. It has long been a thing in the NHL, that teams give a lot more leeway to their top tier picks, especially if they are not quite hitting it big. Where as a 3rd round pick for example comes in and plays 10 or so not great games, they will be given up on way more quickly. There are lots of examples of this kind of thing from all teams. If Kindl was a 3rd round pick or lower and played the exact same way he did, while with us, they would have moved him much more quickly than they did.

 

[The Zermanator]

So Svechnikov will have to be in the NHL next year or clear waivers. If he is placed on waivers, he will be claimed and have to be in the NHL with whoever claims him. If he stays in Detroit, there's a good to fair chance that we will be given plenty of opportunity to establish a role. Look at Rasmussen this year. 62 games played and will miss a handful with an injury. No injury he's approaching 70. What is 70 games for Svechnikov? Puts him at 86, which is approaching the 100 game mark.

My point is the same as the first one I made, which was 100 games by the way. Picks who show promise, especially ones selected in the first round will usually be granted 100 games to test the waters.

I didn't reply to your claim of 100 games, I replied to one of 200 games. I'm merely stating a fact that most NHL players don't hit 100 games, it is what it is. So to say any draft pick barring a top 10-15 pick is a lock to hit 200+ games is premature.

 

[Oddbob]

So Svechnikov will have to be in the NHL next year or clear waivers. If he is placed on waivers, he will be claimed and have to be in the NHL with whoever claims him. If he stays in Detroit, there's a good to fair chance that we will be given plenty of opportunity to establish a role. Look at Rasmussen this year. 62 games played and will miss a handful with an injury. No injury he's approaching 70. What is 70 games for Svechnikov? Puts him at 86, which is approaching the 100 game mark.

My point is the same as the first one I made, which was 100 games by the way. Picks who show promise, especially ones selected in the first round will usually be granted 100 games to test the waters.

I don't think that is entirely accurate. A team can acquire a player and send him back on waivers the same day, if they think he will re-pass through. Lots of players make it through waivers that you wouldn't expect. I do think Svech is going to be in tough, as he has missed a ton of time at an important time in his career, as the years he has missed are great for development, but I do agree, he will likely play all next season with us, IF healthy.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I don't think that is entirely accurate. A team can acquire a player and send him back on waivers the same day, if they think he will re-pass through. Lots of players make it through waivers that you wouldn't expect. I do think Svech is going to be in tough, as he has missed a ton of time at an important time in his career, as the years he has missed are great for development, but I do agree, he will likely play all next season with us, IF healthy.

It is entirely accurate. Why would Detroit put him on waivers unless they had intent on sending him to GR? Say Carolina claims him, and then puts him on waivers, Detroit would just claim him back. Most teams claim someone and give them a shot at the NHL. Frk is a good example of this, when Carolina claimed him, played him, and then tried to waive him only for Detroit to claim him again.

I guess in a way you are correct, he could be an oddball occurrence, but he's got too much potential, imo.

 

[Oddbob]

It is entirely accurate. Why would Detroit put him on waivers unless they had intent on sending him to GR? Say Carolina claims him, and then puts him on waivers, Detroit would just claim him back. Most teams claim someone and give them a shot at the NHL. Frk is a good example of this, when Carolina claimed him, played him, and then tried to waive him only for Detroit to claim him again.

I guess in a way you are correct, he could be an oddball occurrence, but he's got too much potential, imo.

I guess I was reading it more like you were saying that was a rule, versus that the original team would just claim him back.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I guess I was reading it more like you were saying that was a rule, versus that the original team would just claim him back.

Sorry, that was my fault!

 

[Oddbob]

Sorry, that was my fault!

No worries, I think it was just as much how I interpreted it.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

How so?

We have a need for his skill set and he has great potential. If Abdelkader will probably play 1000 nhl games if not more I think it's safe to say Veleno will get at least 3 seasons in his NHL career.

 

[The Zermanator]

We have a need for his skill set and he has great potential. If Abdelkader will probably play 1000 nhl games if not more I think it's safe to say Veleno will get at least 3 seasons in his NHL career.

Agreed on Veleno's skill set and potential. Just like Mrazek, Sproul, and a long list of other 'locks'.

Mrazek was the last time I make the mistake of thinking that way. Hope for the best with Veleno but nothing's a sure thing once they hit the pros. If Yakupov can bust out, Veleno can bust out.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Agreed on Veleno's skill set and potential. Just like Mrazek, Sproul, and a long list of other 'locks'.

Mrazek was the last time I make the mistake of thinking that way. Hope for the best with Veleno but nothing's a sure thing once they hit the pros. If Yakupov can bust out, Veleno can bust out.

Mrazek and Yakupov have both played 200+ games in the NHL.

 

[The Zermanator]

Mrazek and Yakupov have both played 200+ games in the NHL.

Yakupov was picked 1st overall. I chose Mrazek as an example of someone who fell far short of expectations, comparing a goalie's development curve to a skater is pointless.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Yakupov was picked 1st overall. I chose Mrazek as an example of someone who fell far short of expectations, comparing a goalie's development curve to a skater is pointless.

You brought up both of those players as not living up to their potential. My point was Veleno will play 200+ games. Don't use players as your "example" to refute my point when they both reached the requirement I said Veleno will accomplish....