News Article: Joe Veleno

[newfy]

I prefer hockeydb for hockey stats if I am just looking at goals/assists/point totals. very clean interface (moreso than hockey reference) and they update their stats immediately (I think even during the game, at the very least, right after the game ends).

I think db depends on the league whether they update quickly or not? I'm not sure but I've been looking on there at smaller leagues like the NCAA or tier 2 jr A and I dont think the were updated very quickly.

 

[avssuc]

Forgive my noobish question, but could you guys compare Veleno to any other guys that scored at the same level, at the same age, playing in the Q that made it to the NHL?

Also, where do you think he would be drafted if NHL GMs got a do-over knowing what they know now?

 

[jkutswings]

Also, where do you think he would be drafted if NHL GMs got a do-over knowing what they know now?

It's still very early, but I would guess in the 10-15 range based on the numbers he's putting up this season. He's definitely showing a whole lot more offense than he indicated last season.

 

[InjuredChoker]

For what it's worth, the Reference brand has cemented itself as the tops regardless of sport. If I have an interest in statistics, regardless of sport, it usually is a search in Google structured as "James Harden stats reference" or "Dylan Larkin stats reference" pick a sport, pick a player it doesn't matter. Their interface is clean, their offerings are respectable. They are generally a good catch-all for generic stats to low level analytics. Why people still waste time going to the NBA, NHL, NFL, or MLB websites for statistics is beyond me. ESPN generally sucks as well.

NBA has some in-depth stats that aren't found on reference. NFL too, 'next-gen' stats.

 

[Shaman464]

Forgive my noobish question, but could you guys compare Veleno to any other guys that scored at the same level, at the same age, playing in the Q that made it to the NHL?

Also, where do you think he would be drafted if NHL GMs got a do-over knowing what they know now?

I think, though fun to read, any 're-draft/rerank' is useless for the first 3-5 years after a draft. There could be a ton of late bloomers (especially defenders) and non-North American players, that could be high impact and its not apparent now. We will know in 2023 if this was a major screw up by most of the NHL, or if he landed where he was suppose to.

 

[waltdetroit]

Why isn't he signed to an ELC yet?
Waiting for bonus incentives?

Each team can have 50 signed contracts and the DRW's had 49 before the TDL. Most teams keep 1-2 spots open just in case of emergency. With a number of contracts ending this year, we'll see him signed soon (hopefully)

 

[Hen Kolland]

Forgive my noobish question, but could you guys compare Veleno to any other guys that scored at the same level, at the same age, playing in the Q that made it to the NHL?

Also, where do you think he would be drafted if NHL GMs got a do-over knowing what they know now?

The tough part with this is the evolution of Veleno is not something that you see all that frequently. He went from 1.23 points per game (0.34 goals per game) in his draft year, to now producing 1.92 points per game (0.78 goals per game). Oddly enough, Mantha had a massive spike from his D to D+1 year going from 1.33 (0.75) to 2.11 (1.00) playing in the Q, but his play style is obviously quite different from Veleno's. There is also Morgan Frost in the Philly organization who was drafted in 2017 at #27 after putting up 0.93 (0.30). He then went on to put up 1.67 (0.63) the following year. He is playing in the OHL right now.

But there a plenty of player's who have scored like Veleno currently is at some point; for example Claude Giroux in his D+1 year was producing at 1.78 (0.76) over 63 games. But at the same time, someone like Mantha who scored even more hasn't been able to gain traction in the NHL the way that others have. It's a mixed bag for sure.

In my opinion, you look at the knocks on Veleno and it was all about how much offense he would produce. Can he score on his own, are his assists relying on high level IQ, and not just on taking advantage of junior level players. His motor appears to be top-notch, he can skate, he has the intangible skills, he plays a well rounded game when it comes to responsibility; it was all going to come down to his offense. He is producing at very high levels right now, and while I'm sure there is still doubt, I'd be willing to bet he finds himself in the discussion starting around 10 plus or minus a few picks, and would be gone by 15. Centers who went ahead of him, Kotkaniemi (3), Hayton (5), Dellandrea (13), Foudy (18), O'Brien (19), Kupari (20), Lundestrom (23). There's no way Dallas would be taking Dellandrea over Veleno right now.

Edit: But what Shaman said is absolutely correct. The development of other players drafted will drastically impact a re-draft. My points are based exclusively on if there was a re-draft that happened today.

 

[FireBird71]

Each team can have 50 signed contracts and the DRW's had 49 before the TDL. Most teams keep 1-2 spots open just in case of emergency. With a number of contracts ending this year, we'll see him signed soon (hopefully)

I think there’s going to be more open contract spots after the season because I think guys like Turgeon as well as others won’t be back

 

[RedWingzz]

I prefer hockeydb for hockey stats if I am just looking at goals/assists/point totals. very clean interface (moreso than hockey reference) and they update their stats immediately (I think even during the game, at the very least, right after the game ends).

DB has been my go to for years, and is the best, but recently I have found myself on eliteprospects.com a lot. Eliteprospects is a really good site to get insight and stats on prospects. I've contemplating subscribing a few times now, but haven't done so yet.

 

[A Few Good Males]

DB has been my go to for years, and is the best, but recently I have found myself on eliteprospects.com a lot. Eliteprospects is a really good site to get insight and stats on prospects. I've contemplating subscribing a few times now, but haven't done so yet.

Same. I’m an EP guy. Basically live on that site.

 

[waltdetroit]

I think there’s going to be more open contract spots after the season because I think guys like Turgeon as well as others won’t be back

Turgeon does have a contract next year so I don't see him leaving unless he asks for a trade (unlikely). Here are the players whose contracts are up. Some will be re-signed: Frk, Megan, Sadowy, Vanek, Chelios, Hicketts, Kronwall, Lashoff, McIlrath, Sulak, Howard, Rybar, Sateri

 

[FireBird71]

Turgeon does have a contract next year so I don't see him leaving unless he asks for a trade (unlikely). Here are the players whose contracts are up. Some will be re-signed: Frk, Megan, Sadowy, Vanek, Chelios, Hicketts, Kronwall, Lashoff, McIlrath, Sulak, Howard, Rybar, Sateri

According to cap friendly Turgeon is a RFA after the season same with Holmstrom

 

[waltdetroit]

According to cap friendly Turgeon is a RFA after the season same with Holmstrom

Yep you're right. I misread some info from a different site

 

[avssuc]

I think, though fun to read, any 're-draft/rerank' is useless for the first 3-5 years after a draft. There could be a ton of late bloomers (especially defenders) and non-North American players, that could be high impact and its not apparent now. We will know in 2023 if this was a major screw up by most of the NHL, or if he landed where he was suppose to.

Prospects move up and down all year prior to their draft... so if it's fun to read and post about, it can't be useless.

 

[Shaman464]

Prospects move up and down all year prior to their draft... so if it's fun to read and post about, it can't be useless.

On analysts lists, on our lists, but, I’m not sure how much that’s true for NHL orgs. But, the point is that re-rankings of players a year after tend to omitt many players that will be considered steals latter on, and are high on players that never pan out.

 

[SirloinUB]

Projecting Prospect Point Potential Using PNHLe: Veleno, Fox, Batherson, & Pilut – Hockey Prospects – DobberProspects

I don’t know a lot about this PNHLe but the idea is to project the likelihood of a prospects offence translating to the NHL. Veleno is sitting #2 overall and the highest rated forward.

Interestingly McIsaac is number 6 overall as well.

 

[Shaman464]

Projecting Prospect Point Potential Using PNHLe: Veleno, Fox, Batherson, & Pilut – Hockey Prospects – DobberProspects

I don’t know a lot about this PNHLe but the idea is to project the likelihood of a prospects offence translating to the NHL. Veleno is sitting #2 overall and the highest rated forward.

Interestingly McIsaac is number 6 overall as well.

Not to knock this site, but where did they get the Travis Konecny comparison? I am not high on Veleno, but, he's blowing Konecny out of the water here.

 

[SirloinUB]

Not to knock this site, but where did they get the Travis Konecny comparison? I am not high on Veleno, but, he's blowing Konecny out of the water here.

I don’t know for sure but believe it’s a statistical comparison. Their PNHLe numbers were probably very similar.

 

[Shaman464]

I don’t know for sure but believe it’s a statistical comparison. Their PNHLe numbers were probably very similar.

Decided to read the methodology, and its not... very scientific. It's basically 'it works when it works' and hand waves around problems with predicting league jumps. It also seems to put a lot of emphasis on yearly rate of change, which would favor certain player over others (Ras would be hurt by this measure as an example, as his biggest statistical jump came within a season, not between seasons).

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I feel like this chart is all you need to know PNHLe is pretty suspect. Hronek, who's produced really well in the AHL, is behind random second round picks from last draft. They seem to value juniors/college a lot more than the AHL.



and I mean, come on. Veleno is doing well, but he's not the #1 prospect on this list. He's probably not in the top 5.

 

[Shaman464]

I feel like this chart is all you need to know PNHLe is pretty suspect. Hronek, who's produced really well in the AHL, is behind random second round picks from last draft. They seem to value juniors/college a lot more than the AHL.



and I mean, come on. Veleno is doing well, but he's not the #1 prospect on this list. He's probably not in the top 5.

Yeah, I wouldn't put Veleno ahead of Zadina.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Projecting Prospect Point Potential Using PNHLe: Veleno, Fox, Batherson, & Pilut – Hockey Prospects – DobberProspects

I don’t know a lot about this PNHLe but the idea is to project the likelihood of a prospects offence translating to the NHL. Veleno is sitting #2 overall and the highest rated forward.

Interestingly McIsaac is number 6 overall as well.

NHLe is a projection of points a player will get in the NHL for the upcoming season. I’m not a fan of it. There are far to many things to factor and the numbers are extremely bizarre sometimes. McIsaac is not going to be anywhere remotely near 70 points if he plays in the NHL next season.

 

[Shaman464]

NHLe is a projection of points a player will get in the NHL for the upcoming season. I’m not a fan of it. There are far to many things to factor and the numbers are extremely bizarre sometimes. McIsaac is not going to be anywhere remotely near 70 points if he plays in the NHL next season.

Its the advanced stat crowd gone wild. Its fine in baseball where you can atomize everything into individual interactions with the ball. From the pitcher, to the batter, to the fielder, to the batter/baserunner. Possession is static and defined by half of innings. Hockey on the other hand players do a lot of significant things without the puck that can directly effect the play, and possession is fluid and constantly changing. Its very hard to quantify this into a single stat (like WAR) that will define a player's net worth or predict defense (UZR) or offensive production (wRC+/oWAR).

 

[lhsgolf19]

Veleno with his 41st today in a 4-1 Win... 99 Points in 53 Games

 

[lhsgolf19]

There it is Veleno hits the 100 point plateau, in his 55th game, with an assist in the 2nd Period.. .Drummondville up 2-0 right now over Rouyn-Noranda who has won 25 games in a row, yes you read that right lol.