Player Discussion Joakim Nordström

[GloryDaze4877]

Heinen (who I like a lot) got an entire season to show who he really is but for some reason this season he hasn't shown it yet. I don't know why he's on such a short leash w/Butch though.

I get the competition factor to motivate the players, but every guy is wired differently. I feel like Heinen might be one of those kids that does a little better with more of a trust factor.

 

[Dr Hook]

That’s a joke.

It was a good one, too It's been TWO GAMES dammit!!

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I’m having a hard time figuring out why Nordstrom gets a “stretch of games” to see what he “really is”, but Heinen got two periods? Donato one game? I honestly don’t remember.

I don’t dislike Nordstrom, but he has a track record of 286 NHL games to go off of. I’m with BD, he’s ok for a few games, but not a long term solution by any stretch.

Nordstrom has played well, but I think the 2nd line’s recent success has far more to do with Krejci taking his head out of his butt than JN.

coaches like players who play a harder nosed style of defense. fans like us don't have to enjoy it because its not as exciting to watch, but coaches keep their 7 figure salary jobs by winning... and decesions like this help coaches win... its a winning formula

that's why it will keep happening no matter how much us fans want to see the offensively talented but defensively shakey and kind of non-gritty kids get the spot

 

[shoulders7]

I get the competition factor to motivate the players, but every guy is wired differently. I feel like Heinen might be one of those kids that does a little better with more of a trust factor.

Why should they cater to him though? He isn’t a star player, a 3rd line wing isn’t the kind of player you should have to go out of your way to make them comfortable.

You really have no objectivity with regard to Heinen(to be fair, you freely admit as much) but a lot of the time you talk out of both sides of your mouth with him. Heinen is a Swiss Army knife type player who can slide in on any of the four lines, but when he struggles it is because they move him up and down the lineup. Heinen is a cerebral player who “drives” a line, but when the line struggles it is his linemates’ fault. See what I’m saying?

I like Heinen and although you have a higher ceiling projection for him than me, I still think he is an important player for the team. I don’t have a doubt that he will get it going, but also think sitting for a game or two is warranted.

 

[Tampbear]

Why should they cater to him though? He isn’t a star player, a 3rd line wing isn’t the kind of player you should have to go out of your way to make them comfortable.

You really have no objectivity with regard to Heinen(to be fair, you freely admit as much) but a lot of the time you talk out of both sides of your mouth with him. Heinen is a Swiss Army knife type player who can slide in on any of the four lines, but when he struggles it is because they move him up and down the lineup. Heinen is a cerebral player who “drives” a line, but when the line struggles it is his linemates’ fault. See what I’m saying?

I like Heinen and although you have a higher ceiling projection for him than me, I still think he is an important player for the team. I don’t have a doubt that he will get it going, but also think sitting for a game or two is warranted.

I'm definitely a bit mixed on this, because he definitely showed a lot of skill and wasn't really rewarded for it last year. He definitely wasn't doing enough to keep himself in the lineup but I don't think GD's POV is completely off either.

 

[Blowfish]

I’m having a hard time figuring out why Nordstrom gets a “stretch of games” to see what he “really is”, but Heinen got two periods? Donato one game? I honestly don’t remember.

I don’t dislike Nordstrom, but he has a track record of 286 NHL games to go off of. I’m with BD, he’s ok for a few games, but not a long term solution by any stretch.

Nordstrom has played well, but I think the 2nd line’s recent success has far more to do with Krejci taking his head out of his butt than JN.

I don't disagree unfortunately it happened and the line has looked very effective. I see this similar to the Matthews Kapanen and Hyman line. I don't believe Hyman has a goal yet Mattews and Kapanen are raking up points. Hyman brings physical and boardwork that helps create room for the playmakers. My take is Cassidy wasn't seeing this from Heinen.

I still maintain Bjork Heinen Donato would be an exciting and effective line. Right now Bjork and Donato are left filling holes in the Backes game.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Why should they cater to him though? He isn’t a star player, a 3rd line wing isn’t the kind of player you should have to go out of your way to make them comfortable.

You really have no objectivity with regard to Heinen(to be fair, you freely admit as much) but a lot of the time you talk out of both sides of your mouth with him. Heinen is a Swiss Army knife type player who can slide in on any of the four lines, but when he struggles it is because they move him up and down the lineup. Heinen is a cerebral player who “drives” a line, but when the line struggles it is his linemates’ fault. See what I’m saying?

I like Heinen and although you have a higher ceiling projection for him than me, I still think he is an important player for the team. I don’t have a doubt that he will get it going, but also think sitting for a game or two is warranted.

I’m not advocating they “cater” to Heinen. I’m simply stating that players have different personalities and react differently to certain “stimuli”. Some kids need pats on the back and some need to get kicked in the ass. It’s the coaches job to know what buttons to push to get the most out of players. That’s not “catering” to a player.

I have called Heinen a cerebral player many times (he is lol). I have never once said that he is capable of driving a line. If anything, he’s more of a facilitator. Even as he matures and gets better, I’m not sure he will ever be capable of driving a line?

As far as “blaming his linemates”, how did DeBrusk look the first couple of games when Krejci was sleepwalking through those games? Last year he played most of the year with Riley Nash, Backes, Kuraly, and Schaller and managed the same points per game as DeBrusk, who had Krejci and higher quality linemates. He should get a freaking medal

He is a “Swiss Army knife” player imo, but I have said more than once that it works against him too. It’s much easier to slide a guy like Heinen (who can be trusted defensively) down than it is a player like Donato, who is a defensive liability.

My major problem with the way they use him is continuity. Two periods with Krejci and DeBrusk was enough to show what they can do? The fans talked about that line combo a lot and Krejci looked good with Heinen in preseason, but DeBrusk was in China. 46 and 74 worked together all last year, so that chemistry should be there, but Heinen got very little time with them last season.

It’s my personal belief that he (and the line) would flourish if put into the right situation. Hopefully, I get the chance to be proven wrong.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

coaches like players who play a harder nosed style of defense. fans like us don't have to enjoy it because its not as exciting to watch, but coaches keep their 7 figure salary jobs by winning... and decesions like this help coaches win... its a winning formula

that's why it will keep happening no matter how much us fans want to see the offensively talented but defensively shakey and kind of non-gritty kids get the spot

“Coaches like players who play a harder nosed style of defense.”

What the f*** does that mean?

I think you have this totally backwards. Coaches like players who help them win games. Doesn’t matter if they play hard-nosed D or “get in the lane” D. If it works, coaches like it. It’s the fans who nitpick about style points.

Heinen is neither shaky defensively nor is he non-gritty, so I guess he should be in line to get the spot?

 

[mjhfb]

I haven't watched enough of Nordstom to answer this, but since Cassidy has always stressed the importance of "being hard on pucks", could he simply be doing that better?

 

[shoulders7]

I’m not advocating they “cater” to Heinen. I’m simply stating that players have different personalities and react differently to certain “stimuli”. Some kids need pats on the back and some need to get kicked in the ass. It’s the coaches job to know what buttons to push to get the most out of players. That’s not “catering” to a player.

I have called Heinen a cerebral player many times (he is lol). I have never once said that he is capable of driving a line. If anything, he’s more of a facilitator. Even as he matures and gets better, I’m not sure he will ever be capable of driving a line?

As far as “blaming his linemates”, how did DeBrusk look the first couple of games when Krejci was sleepwalking through those games? Last year he played most of the year with Riley Nash, Backes, Kuraly, and Schaller and managed the same points per game as DeBrusk, who had Krejci and higher quality linemates. He should get a freaking medal

He is a “Swiss Army knife” player imo, but I have said more than once that it works against him too. It’s much easier to slide a guy like Heinen (who can be trusted defensively) down than it is a player like Donato, who is a defensive liability.

My major problem with the way they use him is continuity. Two periods with Krejci and DeBrusk was enough to show what they can do? The fans talked about that line combo a lot and Krejci looked good with Heinen in preseason, but DeBrusk was in China. 46 and 74 worked together all last year, so that chemistry should be there, but Heinen got very little time with them last season.

It’s my personal belief that he (and the line) would flourish if put into the right situation. Hopefully, I get the chance to be proven wrong.

Yes, I also hope you get the chance to be proven wrong. Apologies about the driving the line comment, read it here but guess it was someone else. He is a good player and will be back and producing soon.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I haven't watched enough of Nordstom to answer this, but since Cassidy has always stressed the importance of "being hard on pucks", could he simply be doing that better?

I think he’s doing the dirty work on that line right now. You want DeBrusk shooting and Krejci is not capable of doing it, so if you want to dump it in, you need a “dirty work” guy. If you want to play a different style, such as a possession game coming into the zone, he might not be the best choice?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Yes, I also hope you get the chance to be proven wrong. Apologies about the driving the line comment, read it here but guess it was someone else. He is a good player and will be back and producing soon.

No need for an apology.

I hope you are right.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

“Coaches like players who play a harder nosed style of defense.”

What the **** does that mean?

I think you have this totally backwards. Coaches like players who help them win games. Doesn’t matter if they play hard-nosed D or “get in the lane” D. If it works, coaches like it. It’s the fans who nitpick about style points.

Heinen is neither shaky defensively nor is he non-gritty, so I guess he should be in line to get the spot?

we will just have to wait and see what the coach decides. but one thing im certain of is that fans here will continue to think their favorite kids don't get played enough... and that these 4th liners who go out there and 'don't have offensive skill' will continue to get overplayed

its not just in boston… its a critism of most winning coaches... not so much a critism on teams that get into the lottery though and build these amazing teams full of draft picks for the future

 

[GloryDaze4877]

we will just have to wait and see what the coach decides. but one thing im certain of is that fans here will continue to think their favorite kids don't get played enough... and that these 4th liners who go out there and 'don't have offensive skill' will continue to get overplayed

its not just in boston… its a critism of most winning coaches... not so much a critism on teams that get into the lottery though and build these amazing teams full of draft picks for the future

I have nothing against 4th liners...playing on the 4th line.

Nordstrom has nearly 300 NHL games and has proven to be a 4th line player, not a Top 6 player. Do you think the B’s have suddenly discovered something about him CAR missed?

I don’t.

In this case, Heinen is not a defensive liability when he’s on the ice, even when he’s not producing offensively (even if his D isn’t hard-nosed enough for you lol). So, this doesn’t fit your scenario.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I have nothing against 4th liners...playing on the 4th line.

Nordstrom has nearly 300 NHL games and has proven to be a 4th line player, not a Top 6 player. Do you think the B’s have suddenly discovered something about him CAR missed?

I don’t.

In this case, Heinen is not a defensive liability when he’s on the ice, even when he’s not producing offensively (even if his D isn’t hard-nosed enough for you lol). So, this doesn’t fit your scenario.

I like Heinen just fine... im not the coach. like you im a fan that wants to see kids play. id like to see Heinen get a chance with Bergeron/marchand.

when Heinen is playing well he works hard on his defense and his defense looks fine to me. when he is playing well he seems to be able to produce offense at the nhl level to my eyes. again, im not the coach

I don't have a 7 figure salary depending on my choices. id be all in favor of playing Heinen with Bergeron/marchand… but again this isn't about me

im just saying to fans that get upset at axelsson on a top line or Nordstrom on a top line... they shouldn't get so shocked when it keeps happening and will continue to keep happening in the future.

hell... sometimes it works. when mike Knuble got promoted it worked.

and one last thing... when I say a hard nosed defensive effort im not necessary talking about throwing the body. I have no idea if Nordstrom throws the body to be honest. I just mean making an effort on every play. not taking plays off. not giving less than full effort on plays.

no one is 100% perfect. Bergeron might be 99% I would say. good players might only be 85-90% im throwing numbers out of thin air... but its to make a point. and bad players might still be in the 75% range because if you aren't at least 3/4 of the time making a hard effort you wont be in the nhl long no matter how good you are offensively

so imho... the difference between bad defensive players and good to very good defensive players isn't huge. but it is important.

I think Heinen is a perfectly fine defensive player when his effort level {consistentcy} is up around 90% but when it starts dropping to 80% he needs a wakeup call. hes not the same player game to game or even week to week. I think he could be pretty damn good if he ever got his effort level up above 90% so im not down on the kid

im just saying that right now he, Bjork, donato all need to intensify their effort levels defensively if they want to impress the coach and secure their spots in the lineup

meanwhile from what ive seen of Nordstrom he seems to be a very hard worker that looks like he wants to keep his job

 

[NDiesel]

I have nothing against 4th liners...playing on the 4th line.

Nordstrom has nearly 300 NHL games and has proven to be a 4th line player, not a Top 6 player. Do you think the B’s have suddenly discovered something about him CAR missed?

I don’t.

In this case, Heinen is not a defensive liability when he’s on the ice, even when he’s not producing offensively (even if his D isn’t hard-nosed enough for you lol). So, this doesn’t fit your scenario.

I think it's obviously in the Bruins best interest for Heinen/Donato to excel in a top 6 role rather than Nordstrom. But just a couple things to add:

1) I've mentioned earlier in the thread and although it's not usual, Nordstrom is 26 turning 27 this season. There is a chance that he's a late bloomer finally 'getting it.' It is especially intriguing because there are a lot of cases of Swedish born players hitting their stride in their late 20s.

2) Riley Nash is a great example of a guy who had no offense before last year (coined a zero zone player by many here the year before) - he was put into a better situation than ever before - playing with the first line for a bit and playing with 3rd line talent rather than 4th line - and put up career highs. Sometimes when you put someone in the right situation they can succeed regardless of their past history.

I think the Bruins are doing well enough and Nordstrom is doing well enough that it doesn't make sense to force Donato/Heinen into that spot when they haven't really shown much when given the chance.

Let's ride out this wave and hope that it keeps working IMO.

 

[Sheppy]

I think it's obviously in the Bruins best interest for Heinen/Donato to excel in a top 6 role rather than Nordstrom. But just a couple things to add:

1) I've mentioned earlier in the thread and although it's not usual, Nordstrom is 26 turning 27 this season. There is a chance that he's a late bloomer finally 'getting it.' It is especially intriguing because there are a lot of cases of Swedish born players hitting their stride in their late 20s.

2) Riley Nash is a great example of a guy who had no offense before last year (coined a zero zone player by many here the year before) - he was put into a better situation than ever before - playing with the first line for a bit and playing with 3rd line talent rather than 4th line - and put up career highs. Sometimes when you put someone in the right situation they can succeed regardless of their past history.

I think the Bruins are doing well enough and Nordstrom is doing well enough that it doesn't make sense to force Donato/Heinen into that spot when they haven't really shown much when given the chance.

Let's ride out this wave and hope that it keeps working IMO.

I'm good with this right now.

 

[Dr Hook]

Do you think the B’s have suddenly discovered something about him CAR missed?

They certainly did with Riley Nash

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I think it's obviously in the Bruins best interest for Heinen/Donato to excel in a top 6 role rather than Nordstrom. But just a couple things to add:

1) I've mentioned earlier in the thread and although it's not usual, Nordstrom is 26 turning 27 this season. There is a chance that he's a late bloomer finally 'getting it.' It is especially intriguing because there are a lot of cases of Swedish born players hitting their stride in their late 20s.

2) Riley Nash is a great example of a guy who had no offense before last year (coined a zero zone player by many here the year before) - he was put into a better situation than ever before - playing with the first line for a bit and playing with 3rd line talent rather than 4th line - and put up career highs. Sometimes when you put someone in the right situation they can succeed regardless of their past history.

I think the Bruins are doing well enough and Nordstrom is doing well enough that it doesn't make sense to force Donato/Heinen into that spot when they haven't really shown much when given the chance.

Let's ride out this wave and hope that it keeps working IMO.

I hear ya, but I don’t consider 2 periods with a sleepwalking Krejci “given a chance”.

IMO, Nordstrom was a wakeup call for Krejci. He was not good for the first 2-3 games and has elevated his play since. As he goes, so goes the 2nd line. Look at DeBrusk’s stat line. He was playing decent, but had nothing to show for it until Krejci got his act together. I don’t believe that a career 4th liner is carrying the 2nd line and that when Krejci is right, Donato, Bjork, or Heinen are better options than Nordstrom in the medium to long term.

 

[hrdpuk]

If it ain't broke

 

[The don godfather]

Who knew this would be Donny best free agent signing. Unreal.

 

[Rolo]

Who knew this would be Donny best free agent signing. Unreal.

That would be Jaroslav Halak

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Much better signing then Beleskey or Backes, he is excelling in his role.

 

[Blowfish]

Much better signing then Beleskey or Backes, he is excelling in his role.

He’s excelling over a few of the younger potential young forward studs.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

He’s excelling over a few of the younger potential young forward studs.

How is he really excelling over them? He's gotten a much longer leash in the Top 6 than either has, and he's produced the same as Heinen and 2 more points than Bjork. This while averaging 14:47 TOI thus far; Heinen at 14:08 and Bjork at 11:56.

He plays hard, but he has limited offensive skill and is a 4th liner. He has shown to be a good signing, but he'd be better suited in a 4th line role.