Jesse Puljujarvi Part 7: No NHL in '19-20 for Jesse P.

Discussion in 'Edmonton Oilers' started by Bryanbryoil, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. Whyme Registered User

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    Still up :) The first paragraph is true. You have to factor some things, McDavid hadn'ts scored a goal for nine(?) games and got his first ever hat trick in the first game with Pulju. I watched the games carefully and the line looked better than the 1st line before it. If you like I can dig links to dozens of posts about how fans felt about those two together.

    At the time Pulju's game was less detailed, but what he brough was speed, energy, puckfighting, some nice passes and shot attempts. It maybe wasn't always nice, but it brought results. What I didn't like was the lack of physicality, but he was a thin guy having some balance issues. I talk too much about four games, it's history anyway. I just hope I'll get to see him with McDavid again as I really believe Pulju isn't the same player anymore.
     
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  2. Eskimo44 Registered User

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    I always thought those people were VERY wrong and consistently argued against them at the time, feel free to look it up. Others being wrong doesn't equal a fact, it just means they were wrong. Nuge did an incredible job that season defensively and was by far our leader in QoC. Nuge's biggest problem has been a lack of help but in saying that his 51 points while stuck on the 2nd PP and playing minutes as tough as any in the league with mediocre help was actually very impressive. He started scoring well with Eberle back on his RW for the second half of the season and he was pretty much the only guy who Lucic could survive with in his time here (He did well with Strome but they couldn't buy a goal despite playing really well, I was annoyed about guys jumping all over Strome too).

    I can appreciate where you are coming from, i actually agree Puljujarvi was kind of dinked around too. But I will say he's not comparable to Yamamoto who is a very smart player and was more or less snake bitten as he adjusted to NHL goaltending. I actually thought that line of him Nuge and McDavid was outstanding but just couldn't buy a goal. IMO Yamamoto wasn't gifted anything he was tantalizingly close to getting over the hump and the coaches could see it, in fact i'd suggest this season is confirmation of it. Yamamoto's hockey sense is elite and see's him play better with better players and because of it guys want to play with him. It's not surprising to me he's done better in the NHL than the AHL tbh and IMO it was always just a matter of time before he broke out. I've always been a big fan of him too.

    If I was the Oilers I'd give Puljujarvi the Rantanen treatment and attach him at the hip of McDavid for 60 games and see what happens, IMO with his talent he just needs to get comfortable and find some chemisty. Puljujarvi to me isn't a cerebral player he's an instinctual one who uses his tremendous gifts to succeed and in order to succeed to the highest degree needs to find a comfort zone. With the depth we have now the team can afford to let him find his groove, one could argue that wasn't such an easy proposition before. Not every guy is the same and given the differences in treatments needed to succeed and skillsets I don't see Yamamoto and Puljujarvi as comparable. Never the less I do think you are on to something and respect your position as IMO I think the player has real upside if given a long look in a position to succeed, a situation I agree he has never been afforded. I just think it's apples and oranges despite both being young players.
     
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  3. Hynh Registered User

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    That happened during the 2016-17 season, aka the year the Avalanche were the worst team of the post-cap, pre-Dead Wings era. IMO Rantanen and Puljujarvi are just too different as people to think that the same development plan would work. Rantanen and Puljujarvi both had 28 points the year they were drafted but one played a full season in the AHL while the other demanded to be on the roster for 40 games in the NHL to burn a year of his contract.
     
  4. Whyme Registered User

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    Thank you for your long an polite reply! Nuge's 2nd half of the season was definitely better and it's true he deserves more credit for his defensive game. But it's also true many over here were that happy with him in the first half, almost every player goes through harder times and maybe that was the one for him.

    As for Yamamoto and the differences between him and Pulju... You wrote and reasoned your opinions very well and I trust you have a point there. But, and sorry for this "but", even though you may well be right, at the time Yamamoto couldn't get very much done in the top6 and as the fans seemed to feel that way and as the stats back that I don't think it's a very unreasonable comment to say Yamamoto was gifted that place at the time.

    I also think playing with Drai and Nuge is an ideal position for anyone like Yamamoto or Pulju, just like playing with McDavid is. If Yamamoto had played most of his season in the bottom 6, with Lucic as his most common linemate, with no PP usage, he could very well be in the bust category now. But don't take me wrong, I'm honestly happy the team realised how they can utilize him this well.
     
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  5. frag2 Registered User

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    This team is beyond simply "see what happens", especially for 60 games. If it amounts to nothing, you've just screwed McDavid and likely the Oilers for 2/3rds the season.
     
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  6. Eskimo44 Registered User

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    Lets be honest apart from Kassian early, and that was with Draisaitl too, nobody has been a great fit with McDavid. Puljujarvi's upside makes him an ideal candidate to fill that role and if he's only mediocre then i fail to see how it's any worse than now. With the Nuge-Drai-Yamo line killing it you CAN absolutely try to create chemistry. The team invested a great deal in Puljujarvi, a 4th pick is a massive asset to waste, so they should really try to salvage the player. I just dont see a massive downside.

    Obviously there will need to be some improvement as they stick together but it can be slow, as like i said the alternative given our personnel and cap situation probably isn't too shit hot. That doesnt mean Tippett cant make adjustments at key times in games but they need to give him a real long look as he could solve a ton of problems.

    Basically I think the risk is minimal and the reward could be huge and sometimes in life success comes from intelligent gambles. Longterm vision needs to trump short term vision quite often and IMO a lack of foresite has really hurtthis team at times and was a major flaw of Mclellans. I see Tippett as a guy who looks at the longterm while being willing to adjust when needed in the short term. In fact I think we're seeing him reclaim and develop key players because of it.
     
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  7. Eskimo44 Registered User

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    I don't think we'll agree but that's fine as you're clearly reasonable enough to have a legitimate opinion I can respect even if it isn't aligned with my own. I will also thank you for a considerate reply as it's especially nice to see given I had the unfortunate pleasure of "debating" with a rather foolish individual on the trade boards at the same time. He was so ignorant I've just decided he wasn't worth my time and I hate doing that as i'd rather find value in everyone, but that it's got to be a two way street. What I do think we can agree on is if Puljujarvi comes back hopefully he gets a good and fair shake in a role that's suitable to his skillset as I concur he wasn't handled in a particularly prudent manner. He has the potential to be the perfect compliment to the core going forward.

    If him and Benson can step up this team cold have 4 outstanding lines and a deep defense with the personnel to excel in all the key roles needed. I really believe Tippett is smart enough to understand the value and strengths of his personnel and may just develop Puljujarvi excellently given the chance. I'd like to see them put Athanasiou at center and hopefully run 3 sets of wingers: Hopkins-Yamamoto, Ennis-Kassian, Benson-Puljujarvi. I think this would give the Oilers a strong chance of icing 3 quality scoring lines at evens and allow Tippett to protect the young guys and Athanasiou at times while also being able to utilize the clear offensive upside of Benson, Athanasiou, and Puljujarvi depending on the circumstance.
     
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  8. Whyme Registered User

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    I understand the 60 games you mentioned may sound much, but I don't think the exact number is the point here. I agree with you some time should be given and it could solve a big problem. If it'd mean the Oilers get even stronger and Puljujarvi would find an ideal place for him that'd be like a double win for myself.

    In general (not just with Pulju) that was exactly McLellan's problem, it seemed he didn't seem to have long-term plans. It's undertandable to try different things if needed, but it was often ridiculous. Tippett obviously feels he'll be in Edmonton for a long time and knows that finding those pairs and working lines is a big key towards success.
     
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  9. Mr Positive Cap Crunch Incoming

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    Tippett also has the benefit of a better forward core, defense and goaltending.

    That alone makes it seem silly to me that Puljujarvi wouldn't come back and try. On a good team, it's easier to stand out in a good way. If it doesn't work again, we'll obviously trade him then. We can't send him down to the AHL.
     
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  10. Dorian2 Define that balance

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    I'd like to think that Tippet himself is a damn good reason to return. He's pretty even keeled it seems.
     
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  11. yukoner88 Registered User

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    Why are so many people focused on McLellands deployment of JP when he had half a season with Hitchcock as well.

    And Hitchcock was so desperate to get JP going he talked about the kid in damn near every press conference, with a lot of praise and a lot of desire to bring JP to the next level as a player.

    JP just couldn't seem to get everything together and still complained at the end of the year despite everything Hitch tried to do for him.

    I want the kid to come over here and I want him so badly to fit in with the rest of the roster as he still has the potential to become a very important player, but something has to happen with that muscle that sits between his ears for it to happen.

    While I'm sure the team in Finland was happy to have JP in their line up as he appeared to have a decent season over there, but I hope his team mates and coaches over there had the "come on get, get it together. You should be over there playing for the cup" talk.
     
  12. FlameChampion Registered User

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    I sort of agree with some of the deployment sentiment. When he was here in his first two seasons, I thought he wasnt utilized very well. I think it was a bit of a crime to not use him on the PP where he had success prior to the draft especially when the season was lost. I sort of agree with Whyme, small sample size but I thought JP looked pretty decent with McDavid. Considering no ones really looked that great with McDavid other than Maroon (and Draisaitl), I think it was something that could of been explored more. In his first two seasons, I personally dont think he was ready for the NHL but I remember thinking this guy is still a third line player at worse, but he really needs to step it up if he wants to be a top 6 forward.

    But the problem with JP is that he was so awful in his last year here. I dont know what you can really make of him, really disappointing. Didnt look like a NHL player. Whether it was injuries, confidence, etc I dont know. I think everything was so easy for him before his draft that he never really knew how to deal with adversity. I really would like to see him succeed here but I am not sure what to think.
     
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  13. nally Registered User

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    All we can really do is hope that it was due to maturity and confidence and give him every opportunity to succeed with us for one more year. Judge him on his scale of learning throughout the year and make your decision afterwords. Keeping in mind, he will have his moments where we question his ability or effort, but we have to remember that everyone goes through those spells. I would say that JP needs a bit more coddling than most due to his personality. Man I hope JP can figure it out and with the Oilers. The potential is immense. If he could be anything close to the way he was in the world juniors, playing on a line with McDavid, wow.

    One more year, one more year of maturity. Something I feel JP was really lacking, and held him back. Hope it's a case of time heals all. Only time will tell
     
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  14. FlameChampion Registered User

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    I think it will come down to confidence, maturity and his ability to understand/communicate. I just hope for his sake, if he does come back that his english is better and he can replicate what the coach/teammates want in practice. I just have a feeling that his confidence/maturity will be better but I still think hes going to struggle with the last part. Not based on anything but a feeling. I would really love for him to work out here (if he comes back).
     
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  15. Rafters Registered User

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    The hip surgery may have something to do with his struggles under Hitchcock as well
     
  16. oil Leaks The Ultimate Decoy

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  17. FlameChampion Registered User

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    Cool video. Some nice goals there.

    Not trying to be too negative but was hoping to see some more goals where hes attacking the net and using his size/speed to create goals. He has an awful lot of goals where hes just shooting the puck from outside of the faceoff dots, that arent exactly snipes (some are), that I dont think would score regularly in the NHL.

    Overall still a nice season in the FEL. Something to build off for him.
     
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  18. bellagiobob Registered User

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  19. OiledUp Registered User

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    Seattle really need to steal the Rocking Cocks for their team. Ideally with a finnish accent.
     
  20. Bryanbryoil Moderator

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    If those goals are in chronological order they seem to get more impressive later in the video. If he shows up next season hungry to prove himself heres to hoping that he does very well for us.
     
  21. Al from New Jersey Registered User

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    That video seems to show he's improved his ability of giving his teammates an option. Alot of the time he was backing away from traffic to get them an option rather than just covering himself in traffic.

    Id be interested in seeing a video of all his assists to see how his playmaking is.
     
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  22. Fourier Registered User

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    I just watched a replay of a game vs Tampa in February of 2018. JP played on a line with Khaira and Lucic. Not a combination you would say was set up for a lot of success but in fact he looked ok in that game. He even through a couple of nice hits including one on Hedman. He also had a decent scoring chance.

    The line did not generate a lot and they did get scored on once but on the whole they were fine and JP looked comfortable against what was at the time a Tampa team with a 36-13-3.

    With his head in the game he was already a fair third line winger. This is why I think trading him now for a pick would be a mistake. I think the odds of him becoming a solid NHL player are much higher than the odds that you get such a player out of that pick.
     
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  23. McJadeddog Registered User

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    Yeah I think most people agree with this. I'm not a big fan of JP, that should be obvious by my posting history, but I still there is an NHL player there. The mid-2nd rounder you are going to get for him has a 10-15% chance of being an NHLer in 4 years from now. Why make that trade? Makes no sense from Edmonton's POV.
     
  24. FlameChampion Registered User

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    I think if you can trade him for a late first or a early second (provided that theres a player you really like at that slot), it makes sense to trade him. But I agree, I dont see the point of trading him for a late second or a third round pick at this point. I think Holland likely agrees as thats likely the reason he hasnt been traded at this point. I think the odds of him becoming a solid NHL player is higher than a mid to late second round pick.
     
  25. Fourier Registered User

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    Unless you use that early second in another trade for an actual NHL player it still does not make much sense unless you know for sure he is not coming back. Even an early second has less than a 1 in 10 chance of being a contributing NHL'er within the next 3 years and probably a less that 1/4 chance of ever being a regular NHL'er.
     

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